Ray Fine options

[David Warkentin]

I am thinking of buying a 6090 from Ray Fine. I was wondering about wattage and size. Is there any reason to go with a smaller machine or a lower wattage laser? We will be using it for engraving wood and some cutting.

[Jerome Stanek]

I would go with an 80 watt unit.

[John Lifer]

I think that's their std for that size machine. And upgrading to a better tube was very little cost. EFR brand.

[Jason Hakki]

Maybe someone with more experience can chime in but I've read that larger tubes are not as good at engraving as smaller tubes. In some cases...depending. I have an 80watt tube and it seems to engrave well for what it's worth.

[David Somers]

Hey everyone!

An 80watt tube is a good compromise size for both cutting and engraving. If you will primarily be cutting I would go higher, perhaps 120. Just be aware that you may not be able to dial a 120 down enough in power to get a really fine engraving. If you are only engraving then a 60 is fine but will still cut decently. But slower. 80watt puts you in the sweet spot between the two functions and is a good all around choice. EFR should be a good choice for a tube. I got that information from Dave Sheldrake on SMC. Just do a search on him or EFR and you will see lots of mention of it. I know he is swamped right now and not giving too much attention to forums for a bit so we may not see him pipe up about this.

I dont believe there is any cost different to you between a RECI and an EFR tube.

Dave

[Kev Williams]

What Dave said :)

My 80w Triumph is perfect--

had I gotten a 60w, I'd be disappointed with the cutting results (I don't cut all that often, but when I do I appreciate the speed)

had I gotten a 120 or 130w, I wouldn't be able to do much engaving with it.

Black Rowmark I engrave at 17% power and 700mm/sec with great results. A 130 tube might not fire reliably at a low enough power setting an not roast the plastic.
It's also great for wood, low enough power for 'superficial' engraving, but has enough oopmh to deep engrave quickly...

[Bill George]

And with a glass tube laser you can't run at 100% anyway so take 90% of 60 watts peak output when new and you have the actual working wattage. I would go with the 80 myself.

[David Somers]

David,

If you can, ask Blanca to go with an EFR tube rather than a RECI. And you might ask her to put a milliampere meter on it. 30 to 50 watt max is fine. You can do it yourself later, but it is easy for them to do it and it is a nice monitoring and diagnostic tool.

Tell Blanca Hi for me too!

[David Warkentin]

Thanks. This is the info I was looking for. What about size? Are there any drawbacks to a larger size?

[David Somers]

By size do you mean the table size David?

If yes, that is really based on what you plan to do with it. Changes in the size of the machine cost relatively little. I think when I bought my 900x600 machine it was maybe another $100 to $150 to ramp it up to a full 1200x900. I would have done that but the size of the machine became so big I was going to have to suspend myself from the ceiling to work with it. No more floor space left. (just joking, but it was seriously larger) so I ended up staying with the 900x600. 1200x900 would have been nice simply to be able to accept a full width 4x8 sheet stock without having to cut it down before hand. But, such is life working out of your garage.

For myself, I normally am working in the 1 x 1 foot range and the 2x2 ft range. But for a number of recent jobs it was easier to work with the full 3 ft x 2ft bed. It would have been even simply to work 4x3 foot. Buy what you need for your anticipated work, plus room for growth and dreams. And to fit the space you have of course.

Also, you might think about Z height. In my case, I often do some very large items and I got my machine with extra Z height. That was something I was specifically looking for though and not a normal thing for folks to consider. Most people are working on flat stock of some sort.

I would be sure you have pass through doors, whatever size you end up getting. They can be very handy. And if you never use them, I dont think they cost you extra. But they might help with Resale later. (PS....around here, a 1200x900 has better resale than my smaller 900x600....for what that is worth)

Dave

[David Warkentin]

Well, I will have plenty of room. I also have a 4x8 CaMaster CNC so maybe 4' would be a good idea... What about attachments such as rotarys? Buy them at same time?

[Kev Williams]

And with a glass tube laser you can't run at 100% anyway so take 90% of 60 watts peak output when new and you have the actual working wattage. I would go with the 80 myself.

If you're lucky (like me :D) your tube's peak output will be well above the "rated" output. The tube should have an 'as tested' wattage on it. My 80w "rated" RECI tested at 110 watts. RECI, and I'm sure most tube mfr's test their tubes at around 35mA. (or at least those in the 80-ish watt range)... Doing a little math, 80w is 72.72% of the max tested 110w, and 26mA is 74.28% of the tested 35mA, and with my power settings at 70%, I'm hitting 26-28mA depending on water temp... it all correlates nicely, so I'm pretty sure I'm hitting an honest 80 watts in safe mA territory.

But alas, I have noticed many '50 watt rated' machines have 50 watt peak tubes in them. Their actual safe working output is only going to be around 35 watts... I appreciate that Triumph and other 'good' brands don't advertise BS watt ratings. My triumph was my first foray into Chinese machines, and I've learned a lot about them in the 3 years I've had this one (already--where'd the time go??)--such as, if I ever buy another Chinese laser, or even a new tube, I WILL request the tube's as-tested output rating...

[David Somers]

David, If you are buying from China then yes, buy all you can at the same time. It will do little to affect your shipping costs since it all goes into the crate and then the container. You might decide if the stuff you want to buy is going to rotate best on a roller style rotary (relatively smooth cylinders) or if you need to have a 4 or 3 jaw chuck for holding things. Depends on what you are doing with it. They are cheap compared to a US laser supplied rotary so you might buy one of each? (what the heck) but only if you intend to do rotary engraving.

Since you are thinking of Ray Fine, Blanca will help you. You will most likely want a CW5000 chiller. Especially since you are in Alabama where it can get a tad warm every once in a great while. You will also get a big blower and hose, air pump, etc. Dont bother asking for an extra tube. They have a variable shelf life. But do get extra drive chains and belts, and extra lens and mirrors. If you want to get a different focal length lens, remember that you will get a 2" lens with it. A 1.5" may or may not be useful to you if you need an even finer dot, but keep in mind you need a different cone on the lens tube to deal with that shorter lens. Just remind Blanca. My own preference is to have seperate lens tubes/cones for each focal length lens I have. (I have a 2" 1.5" and a 5") That way I do not need to take my lens tube apart and handle the lens in order to change it. I just remove one tube and replace it with another. You will also need to decide if you want 220V or 110V. EIther way, I prefer to have dedicated circuits for everything. That helps protect them. I also put the laser on a Voltage Regulator even though our power here is good. And I also have the house covered by a whole house surge suppressor. Thought I didnt do that specifically for the laser, just for general protection.

You will likely use Corel for your design software. If you have a CNC and you use something like Aspire or Vcarve Pro or another Cad Cam package and are comfortable with it, you would use that as well, and just stop after the design work. Export to a format that RDWorks, supplied with the laser, can read. Later if you feel the need for Corel you could buy it. Unfortunately Corel just finished a good sale price offer on Corel 8. It will come around again.

Hope that gets you going! Holler if you have more questions. I may be a bit slow responding for the next few days. Hustling to finish getting ready for a craft fair Sat.

Dave

[David Warkentin]

For some reason I hadn't seen some of the replies above. I asked her about cost of larger unit and I will definitely get the larger since it isn't that much more money. Thanks!

[John Lifer]

Size, pass thru doors, the 500x700 is the largest that will fit thru 36 inch door. Larger will have to be in two pieces. I'll tell you tomorrow night how hard my 1300x900 is to be moved in....thru a 36 inch doorway...... Pray for me!

[David Warkentin]

I will have a large opening to move it in.

[John Noell]

I dunno why everyone seems to talk about 80 then 120. Personally, after using 80's, my new laser (from Longtai) is coming with a 100 watt tube. I do a fair amount of cutting as well as engraving and wanted just a bit more umph. And, FWLIW, the current EFR tubes (at least on their website) have rated powers of 80, 100, and 130. No 120 in sight.

And, in my experience, and at the advice of Yarde Feng (was Shenhui Dir of R&D, now at Longtai), if you do not want to lose power more quickly than necessary, stay below 85%. So, in practice, if you want 80 watts, the 100 watt rated tube should be about right (and last). Of course, it seems that ALL tubes (perhaps excepting the ceramic core Trotecs) are going to lose some power compared to brand new. RF tubes less, glass tubes more. YMMV!

[Kev Williams]

So far (knock on my head), after owning laser engravers since 2002, I have no idea what a failing tube is. My Triumph was delivered the day after Thanksgiving 2013, and it still acts like new. But to be fair, it's my 'cleanup hitter' rather than a daily workhorse. The well-used 1997 New Hermes/ULS I bought in '02 ran great for about 5 years, and a good deal on a rebuilt tube came along so I changed out the perfectly good one that was in it. I ran it daily for 8 more years until I bought Gary's '05 GCC 14 months ago. Since then my BIL has run the ULS 6-8 hours every night since he took it home over a year ago, I swear it'll outlive the Energizer bunny... The GCC's tube shows no signs of impending doom, and since I dug in and got the lower mirror cleaned it really perked up. And my LS900, bought new nearly 13 years ago hasn't lost a step, I've never had to add power or lower speeds to any saved settings that go back to day one.

FWIW, all the metal tubes have been Synrad's...

I know one of these days my continued praise for these machines is going to bite me in the a** so I'll shut up now... :D

[Bert Kemp]

LOL Kev I was going to say beware of how much you praise your machines. Next week all your tubes will fail. I hope not but good grief how long can they go?forever?:Dhttp://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/61.gif



So far (knock on my head), after owning laser engravers since 2002, I have no idea what a failing tube is. My Triumph was delivered the day after Thanksgiving 2013, and it still acts like new. But to be fair, it's my 'cleanup hitter' rather than a daily workhorse. The well-used 1997 New Hermes/ULS I bought in '02 ran great for about 5 years, and a good deal on a rebuilt tube came along so I changed out the perfectly good one that was in it. I ran it daily for 8 more years until I bought Gary's '05 GCC 14 months ago. Since then my BIL has run the ULS 6-8 hours every night since he took it home over a year ago, I swear it'll outlive the Energizer bunny... The GCC's tube shows no signs of impending doom, and since I dug in and got the lower mirror cleaned it really perked up. And my LS900, bought new nearly 13 years ago hasn't lost a step, I've never had to add power or lower speeds to any saved settings that go back to day one.

FWIW, all the metal tubes have been Synrad's...

I know one of these days my continued praise for these machines is going to bite me in the a** so I'll shut up now... :D