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View Full Version : Technical specification for my new laser machine - a few questions



Erik Goetheer
11-27-2016, 6:49 PM
Hi Guys, I just found this forum a few weeks ago during my search for information about laser cutters and engravers, and I must say that this is one of the best forums I joined ever. :) There are many members here with a lot of 'professional' knowledge and experience, and better yet, who are happy to share this with newbies like me. :) Thank you all. And the atmosphere is great too!

A short introduction of myself, I'm a middle-aged man from The Netherlands with virtual no experience with laser machines whatsoever, but eager to learn and very interested in the possibilities of these machines, both as a hobby and business-wise. So, I'm soaking up every bit of information I can find on the www, found some great youtube channels and scanned and read almost each topic on this subforum that was posted this calender year.

And yes, I'm going to take the step and I will buy a laser engraver / cutter soon, probably within the next few months. And because I'm Dutch, but also because I like a little adventure, it most likely will be a Chinese 'quality-brand', directly imported. Although, a rebranded European brand could also be a possibility, if not too expensive (maybe secondhand). At the moment I have Ray Fine, Shenhui, Bodor, ThunderLaser, Triumph and Longtai on my checklist, and BRM Lasers in Europe. Note to myself: Avoid EBAY!!

Anyway, at the moment I'm getting my specification of the machine, additional equipment and spares together ( it will be a 80W machine with a 600x900 working area) and I might have some questions, for which I couldn't find any good information (or I missed it). I will post all my questions etc. in this topic.

To start, I somewhat know the technical difference between stepper motors and servo based motors, which are used to control the movement of the x- and y-axis, but how does this translate to the output quality of laser machines, in their capacity as cutters and engravers? Are there huge quality differences, like the smoothness of engraved material?

Another question: why are Chinese machines in general slower with engraving tasks then the AAA brands? Has this to do with the controller (software)? And have the rebranded Chines machines the same 'issue'?

I'm looking forward to your input and I hope that I will soon join you, owning and using a very nice cutting and engraving laser machine. :cool:

Neville Stewart
11-27-2016, 10:16 PM
As far as I know you won't find a Chinese machine with servos, and that is one reason why they aren't as fast or accurate as servo driven machines, also why they are considerably cheaper. There is a Dutch based reseller who I would recommend if they give "local" support. I can't recall their name I'm afraid. The price difference is usually worth it to avoid some headaches. I would add, as cutting machines, they do quite well but they other require a good knowledge of control software, and electro mechanics.

Erik Goetheer
11-28-2016, 4:35 AM
Thunderlaser uses servo motors in their Mars serie. At least, that's what they tell us on their website and pdf docs.

Erik Goetheer
11-29-2016, 5:50 PM
I'm checking out some possible machine candidates in detail before requesting quotes, like the LongTai LT-6090, Ray Fine RF-9060 and the ThunderLaser Nova 35. I'm also interested in the SH-G690 from Shenhui but I can't get access to their website www.chinashenhui.com, it's redirected to Alibaba and I don't like Alibaba that much, had some bad experience in the past with electronics that I bought. And I read that a few valuable employees left Shenhui pretty recent to other laser companies, has this influenced the quality in any way of Shenhui as a possible suppler?

From the ones listed above, which one do you guys think offers the best value for money? Not only for the laserparts, but also the with regard to the built quality of the machine and the (after-sales) service?

And does anyone has experience with Sukelaser, in casue the SK-9060 model?

Bert Kemp
11-29-2016, 6:02 PM
Have you Looked at Rabbit Laser? One of the best Built Chinese machines with a good reputation.

Kev Williams
11-29-2016, 8:36 PM
I'm no laser genius by any means, but from experience, DC glass lasers being slow have nothing to do with the drive system and everything to do with the DC glass laser...

I've ran my Triumph a few times at 800mm/sec (out of 1000mm/sec possible) and the engraving quality really starts to suffer. Backlash adjustments only do so much at 800. I've never bothered to try 1000, even though the machine will run that fast.

I run mine at 600 to 700 on 'forgiving' jobs like leather and wood, but not on work such as operator panels and machine labels where I (and my customers) require fine detail. 500 is my max speed for turning out pristine engraving, which is a whopping 19.7" per second... But hey, it beat's 0" per second, slow & steady still makes me money... ;)

The simple fact (as I see it) is a glass laser simply won't react fast enough to sustain highly detailed high-speed engraving, you only get one or the other... Better steppers or servos and controllers may help some, but until someone figures out how to get a glass laser to turn full on and full off anywhere near as fast as an RF metal laser, 25" per second is about the max speed possible with decent results.

David Somers
11-29-2016, 8:50 PM
Eric,

I have a Ray Fine 900x600 80watt machine if I can answer any questions for you. You are right, engraving on a Chinese machine is slower than the Western Lasers, with the Trotecs being at the top of the speed list. They are comparable though in terms of cutting speeds. I dont believe you will find much engraving speed distance between the direct from China units and the units imported and reworked by a local company.

I am very pleased with Ray Fine and my sales person/technical liason Blanca Yan has been terrific to work with.

Be prepared to deal with the date/time zone differences, as well as the huge disparities in holidays with a Chinese purpose. Their holidays are numerous and long and you will get little to no service during most of them. Just be aware. When ordering direct from China you need a fair degree of independance even with the good companies.

You might ask folks here who their Shenhui direct sales people have been. You may be able to work with them direct rather than through Alibaba. You might make that a separate post to catch peoples attention.

BTW. Although I talk about Ray Fine a modest amount and have recommended them, I dont get any considerations from them for that. I just had a good experience with them and Blanca and have been passing that on. I might add that Blanca used to work at Shenhui in sales and moved over to Ray Fine. She was recommended to me specifically by a number of people and when I called her I didnt realize at first she had moved. She was a quite good to work with.

Holler if you need any info or help.

And the best luck with your purchase!

Dave

Neville Stewart
11-29-2016, 10:45 PM
I'm no laser genius by any means, but from experience, DC glass lasers being slow have nothing to do with the drive system and everything to do with the DC glass laser...

I've ran my Triumph a few times at 800mm/sec (out of 1000mm/sec possible) and the engraving quality really starts to suffer. Backlash adjustments only do so much at 800. I've never bothered to try 1000, even though the machine will run that fast.

I run mine at 600 to 700 on 'forgiving' jobs like leather and wood, but not on work such as operator panels and machine labels where I (and my customers) require fine detail. 500 is my max speed for turning out pristine engraving, which is a whopping 19.7" per second... But hey, it beat's 0" per second, slow & steady still makes me money... ;)

The simple fact (as I see it) is a glass laser simply won't react fast enough to sustain highly detailed high-speed engraving, you only get one or the other... Better steppers or servos and controllers may help some, but until someone figures out how to get a glass laser to turn full on and full off anywhere near as fast as an RF metal laser, 25" per second is about the max speed possible with decent results.
I retrospect Kev, that makes more sense. Steppers and stepper drivers are cheaper and that helps the price.

Erik Goetheer
11-30-2016, 3:25 AM
Hi Bert, Rabbit Laser as in the Chinese company King Rabbit? I will check them out, the machines on their website look promising.

Dave, I have noticed in a few topics on the forum that you're a great fan of Ray Fine, or Blanca (I wonder what her real Chinese name is)? :D;) But I'm sure that the information that you give us is real and objective. :) Ray Fine is on the top of my list, but I want to select two or three other machine suppliers. It's always good to have comparison.

Erik Goetheer
11-30-2016, 10:28 AM
Allright, I think that I have my specs list pretty complete, so I'm ready to get some quotes. But not before I have let you guys take a look at it. Of course each machine company has it's specifuc machine specs, but this is the general list that I will use:

Request for a price quotation for:


Laser Machine:

- Voltage: 220V 50Hz
- Work area 600 mm x 900 mm
- Wattage of Laser: 80W
- CE certified
- Ruida controller (has to work with RDWorks 8)
- Steel honeycomb bed
- Motorized in height adjustable working table
- EFR ZS-1250 laser tube (Rated Power 80W) or Resi W2 (Rated Power 80W)
- 50 mm lense (2)
- CW-5000 chiller
- Centrifugal exhaust fan
- DSP Menu interface in English

Prices of the following options:

- Red dot pointer
- Auto focus
- Ammeter installed nearby the DSP display
- Air pressure regulator mounted near the laserbeam nozzle
- Rotary axis add-on

Price differences when I select:

- Resi W2 (Rated Power 80W) instead of EFR ZS-1250

Prices of additional spares:

- 38 mm lense (1.5) with its own lenstube and nozzle for this small lense
- 50 mm lense (spare for the one mounted on the laserhead)
- 76 mm lense (3) with its own lenstube and nozzle
- 3-piece set of mirrors
- Drive belt for the x-axis

That's about it.

About the controller, which is the brain of the machine, do I have to look for a specific controller type from Ruida and what other controller could be advices besides Ruida, in the same price range? is it necessary to add multicolour support (ordening the job and one-job engraving+cutting) to the list above, or do all controllers support that?

Did I miss anything? Or have I overdone something? Of course I will also ask for warranty, delivery-time, shipping costs-, shipping methods (fob, cif etc), insurance during shipping and other delivery procedures, payment methods (I prefer to pay with my cc) and other important stuff like possible colors :D

Bert Kemp
11-30-2016, 10:44 AM
Yes King Rabbit in China. I bought one from a USA distributor as I wanted the support and training and I'm happy with it. Built like a brick ..... House LOL over 2 years now very small problems most operator error or corel stuff.


Hi Bert, Rabbit Laser as in the Chinese company King Rabbit? I will check them out, the machines on their website look promising.

Dave, I have noticed in a few topics on the forum that you're a great fan of Ray Fine, or Blanca (I wonder what her real Chinese name is)? :D;) But I'm sure that the information that you give us is real and objective. :) Ray Fine is on the top of my list, but I want to select two or three other machine suppliers. It's always good to have comparison.

Kev Williams
11-30-2016, 11:06 AM
...a Chinese machine is slower than the Western Lasers, with the Trotecs being at the top of the speed list.
Not to split hairs (ok, so maybe a little bit :D) ...
348565 348566

Bert Kemp
11-30-2016, 11:13 AM
Does that say 4000 mmps, and how fast are the trotec's? Also when I went to the UVLS open house they claim to be faster then Trotec at least thats what the sales guy said. Yes I know he's a salesmen, but did he out and out lie to us?

Gary Hair
11-30-2016, 12:34 PM
The machine speed only really matters if the rest of it can keep up. My 30 watt GCC moved at 80 IPS in raster mode but there wasn't much that I could mark effectively at that speed, so in reality it wasn't an 80 IPS machine. My 80 watt Speedy 400 however, can keep up with the high speed and still produce marks on quite a few substrates, so it truly is a 240 IPS machine. There is also acceleration - the Trotec machines have unusually high acceleration that allows them to get up to that high speed faster than most machines so it can actually attain max speed in a very short distance. Trotec is also built like a tank so it can maintain accuracy at maximum speed.

Speed, acceleration, power, accuracy, etc., all have a big part in what really matters - throughput - how much (quality) engraving can you actually do with your machine in a given period of time. If you have the "fastest" machine but it takes forever to accelerate and is low powered and can't maintain accuracy, then that speed doesn't matter.

Erik Goetheer
12-06-2016, 8:34 AM
I took the jump yesterday and asked for quotations at some Chinese suppliers for an 80W 600x900 laser machine with all the good stuff in it and with it. One of them is Thunderlaser who in a reply told me that they use their 'own' Thunderlaser brand laser tube, tested and with warranty. Of course I replied asking for more specifics, but has anyone here experience with the Thunderlaser 'own' brand?

David Somers
12-06-2016, 10:27 PM
Hi Erik!

Fingers are crossed for you!

Unfortunately I have no experience with Thunderlaser. I think I have heard folks reference it here a few times though. Have you done a search on it in the forum?

Just FYI. With Ray Fine I get no consideration at all from them. I just liked the way they worked and what they provided and pass on my experiences with them. Blanca is a sales person, and does some tech support if you ask her directly. Shenhui would be another company to look at for a China direct purchase. Hope that helps.

Dave

Dave Sheldrake
12-06-2016, 11:10 PM
surprisingly it's not the rise times of the tubes that causes the problem (DC Glass tube galvos will run 9m per second) it's the weight of the optical train parts causing inertial slowdown problems at the end of each line and acceleration problems at the start combined with lower cost, less powerful steppers :)

Erik Goetheer
12-07-2016, 4:30 AM
Thanks Dave. :) I got some more information from Thunderlaser in the meantime, the lasting lifetime of their own brand lasertube is about 2,500 - 4,000 hours, depending on how I use it. That's certainly not the 10,000 hours from the RECI or ERF quality tubes which I'm looking for.

I asked for a quotation at 8 companies (I like to compare stuff), including Shenhui, Ray Fine, longTai. Most of them returned within a day, still waiting for Shenhui and LongTai though. My aim is to order in time so that the machine can and will be shipped before Chinese New Year.

Erik Goetheer
12-15-2016, 1:14 AM
Well, after a week of receiving a handful of quotations, comparing and evaluating them, deselecting some of them, asking and receiving additional information, getting some very good tips and info from forum members, thinking and rethinking everything again ....... the die is cast! :) I finally was left with one supplier, so I just ordered a very nice RF-9060 Laser Engraver with spares from Ray Fine Technologies. I'm very happy about it and I can't wait for its arrival in my shed. Will still be some weeks though.

Bill George
12-15-2016, 8:41 AM
It think you made a wise decision I have had not a problem with my fiber, its just a big learning curve but making some really nice stuff.

Erik Goetheer
12-26-2016, 12:47 PM
I got a Xmas present from Blanca (RayFine), a nice set of pictures of my Laser machine being packed for shipment. Will take another 5-6 weeks before I can unwrap it though.

Anyway, because we all like pictures ....

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/IMGP2335_zps1z5d6dce.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/IMGP2335_zps1z5d6dce.jpg.html)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/air%20pump%20and%20550W%20exhuast%20fan_zpsrgkwcd1 i.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/air%20pump%20and%20550W%20exhuast%20fan_zpsrgkwcd1 i.jpg.html)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/all%20spare%20parts%20you%20order_zpsgkgdjkbc.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/all%20spare%20parts%20you%20order_zpsgkgdjkbc.jpg. html)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/LENS%20IN%20TOOLS%20BOX_zpspoqusm7s.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/LENS%20IN%20TOOLS%20BOX_zpspoqusm7s.jpg.html)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/rotary%20device_zps33fngkhr.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/rotary%20device_zps33fngkhr.jpg.html)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/water%20chiller_zpszy7ooipg.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/water%20chiller_zpszy7ooipg.jpg.html)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/Efr%20zs-1250%2080%20w%20laser%20tube_zpsizdkmigq.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/Efr%20zs-1250%2080%20w%20laser%20tube_zpsizdkmigq.jpg.html)

(http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/machine%20package_zps4mzdfedd.jpg.html)http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/machine%20package_zps4mzdfedd.jpg
(http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/machine%20package_zps4mzdfedd.jpg.html)

Brian Book
12-26-2016, 2:44 PM
Hi Erik .... very nice ... I also got pics of my machine during packing :) .... from what I understand it's already on the way here :))) ..... sure wish I had the room for the 6090 like yours .... but I'm sure I'll be happy with what I get.

I wouldn't mind comparing results as we receive our units to actually using them .

But I know if I do get into trouble there are many new friends here that could possibly help out :)

Again Happy for you Erik !

Brian

Erik Goetheer
12-26-2016, 5:23 PM
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/chinese%20big%20smiley_zpszvwwzwij.png (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/chinese%20big%20smiley_zpszvwwzwij.png.html)

John Lifer
12-27-2016, 10:17 AM
You know the one nice thing about the Ray Fine machines, that is if you use a rotary of any sort, is that they are installing a switch to swap from Y axis to roller on the side of the machine. Along with the cable connection just below the switch. Eliminates the reaching inside and unscrewing cable each time to change over. I can pick up the roller put inside and swap rather quickly. (yes I do power down machine before I flip the switch, don't know if entirely necessary, but I do anyway). And the packaging and crating looks the same! I see you went with the CW5200 for a little more cooling! Keep us informed, mine is chugging away pretty good.

Erik Goetheer
12-27-2016, 1:31 PM
Hi John, thanks for that info. The 5200 might be overkill, but better safe than sorry. It can get pretty warm in my woodden shed during the summer.

Jeff Body
12-27-2016, 3:44 PM
Hi John, thanks for that info. The 5200 might be overkill, but better safe than sorry. It can get pretty warm in my woodden shed during the summer.

Well be careful. Hopefully you still have low humidity with that warm weather. Condensation will kill your tube pretty quickly. I've lost 2 so far.

John Lifer
12-27-2016, 10:25 PM
You know Jeff, that is another nice thing about Northwest Arkansas.... Humidity is almost always very low. Not like Arizona, but nothing like central MS ever is. I was constantly waxing and trying to keep my cast iron saws tables from rusting away! I'd blanket my best table saw all winter to keep most of it protected. And wax often. Up here no issue at all. I wax only to make things slide better!

Erik Goetheer
02-06-2017, 12:20 PM
The waiting is almost over. The laser machine shipped on 1. January, it arrived at Rotterdam port at 30 January and I just got an e-mail from my shipping agent that it will be delivered tomorrow! :) Which is right on time, because I finished the interior work my shed yesterday. I still had to insulate the ceiling and lay laminate flooring amongst others.

So during the last few weeks it went from

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Gameroom%20built/P1080529_zpsudtumuvk.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Gameroom%20built/P1080529_zpsudtumuvk.jpg.html)

via

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Gameroom/Last%20part%20gameroom/P1080801_zpsizbzjzeh.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Gameroom/Last%20part%20gameroom/P1080801_zpsizbzjzeh.jpg.html)


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Gameroom/Last%20part%20gameroom/20170124_153910_zpsxt2pcn5y.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Gameroom/Last%20part%20gameroom/20170124_153910_zpsxt2pcn5y.jpg.html)


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Gameroom/Last%20part%20gameroom/P1080811_zps2woufuta.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Gameroom/Last%20part%20gameroom/P1080811_zps2woufuta.jpg.html)

To this:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Gameroom/Last%20part%20gameroom/P1080855_zps60kbu4pc.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Gameroom/Last%20part%20gameroom/P1080855_zps60kbu4pc.jpg.html)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Gameroom/Last%20part%20gameroom/P1080856_zpssztpdq2e.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Gameroom/Last%20part%20gameroom/P1080856_zpssztpdq2e.jpg.html)

I'm ready to receive my machine. And I'm excited!

John Lifer
02-06-2017, 12:41 PM
Looking good! Keep it above freezing! Water and Glass don't work well together otherwise:)

Kev Williams
02-06-2017, 1:54 PM
Well, now your avatar makes sense ;)

Erik Goetheer
02-06-2017, 2:23 PM
Yep, I will. But it won't be a big risk, since years we hardly have any frost in The Netherlands and because of the good insulation in floor, walls and ceiling the small oil radiator heater can keep the temperature above 0 degrees Celcius with ease.

Steven Taitinger
02-14-2017, 11:57 PM
Hi Guys!

First post... I am about to order basically the same as above except the 7050. Anyone in Canada get charged warehousing costs or try express? What did it cost for sea shipping for you guys? I am thinking of going with https://cargofromchina.com/. One of the guys was fairly responsive and gave me a quote for 840usd for the 6040 size (the last one I was considering ordering).

Anyone try to cut through pallet boards with an 80W EFR or RECI tube? I think the boards are normally 3/4in raw spruce or something like that. I really like the idea of building custom things out of pallets and cuttting and engraving them.

Thanks and looking forwards to joining the conversation!

Steve

Check out a chair I am almost done designing for my personal use below. I am thinking of using a couple sheets of 1/4in wiggle wood as the seat and back.
https://cad.onshape.com/documents/f5e93b662acc67d5102f7aed/w/0e2cbba277e9cbab77cfc95a/e/c56d4b79edb3d6d8d8802a9f

David Somers
02-15-2017, 2:50 PM
Steven,

Afraid that I can't help you with Canadian costs for shipping and Customs. But, I can tell you that 3/4 Spruce, or any 3/4 wood stock for that matter, is going to cut ugly. You will have to make multiple passes, 4 or more, changing your focal point as you go, and your will have a coyote ugly edge on it. Think burned. Big time burned. There are far better tools than a laser for cutting wood that thick. With an 80watt laser you are in good shape to cut 1/4" thick stock, maaaaaaaybe 3/8". Beyond that you need to make multiple offerings to all the gods, great and small.

If you do want to cut wood that thick have you considered a CNC? Another option would be a laser combined with a good shaper or router table. Use the laser to cut a template from thinner materials that can be easily cut. Then use the router to cut along that template. Or just go to a CNC and skip the laser.

Steven Taitinger
02-15-2017, 10:19 PM
Thanks for the reply David! I was hoping that softer wood might cut easier... Lasers can obviously do fine details that no cnc machine can do which is a large part of why lasers are appealing to me. I like designing in Illustrator over my cad programs for products. I guess I will just have to try it to prove myself wrong lol. That isn't the critical application I want to use it for though but just for side interests like my chair I designed. I will mostly be doing the standard cutting of thinner materials or engraving for my business. I am interested in testing the limits of what it can do though. Maybe I will even start a google sheet that anyone could add examples to (machine specs, settings, material info and a picture) for any of the limit tests we have done ourselves.

John Lifer
02-16-2017, 6:02 PM
I had a piece of just under quarter inch Bois D'arc (0.225 actual) that I had brought in to see if I could cut it. 6mm/s and 85% power on my 80watt laser. Which is about as slow and as high a power as I run. It cut, but it charred badly
and would take more sanding and cleanup than is worth it to make anything useful. Just my opinion.

David Somers
02-16-2017, 7:24 PM
Steven,

Just a thought, but a laser and a CNC can work together nicely, complimenting each other in terms of materials and thicknesses. A CNC can cut thicker materials for an assembly that would not work well on a laser, and then your laser can do the fine engraving that it is so accomplished at. If you are buying from China doing both is not a bad combination and the costs may be less than you think. That is how I ended up with both for what that is worth. At this point I use the laser more, but am glad I have the CNC now and am working up more things to run through it. I also do a lot of lathe work as well. (wood lathe)

Kev Williams
02-16-2017, 8:06 PM
If you want to make intricate cuts in big wood, get yourself a scrollsaw like my BIL did. He has 2 lasers, and found out long ago cutting thru wood is for saw blades ;)

These are some of the first things he made when he got it, for is wife- He's a wiz with Corel, and it seems it didn't take him long to learn how to use the scrollsaw. He used his LS800 laser to engrave the design work, and to mark the cuts (I think, it's been awhile).

354151354152

Erik Goetheer
02-23-2017, 4:33 PM
Allright, on topic again. ;) I've been busy the last few nights installing the air exhaust system and before connecting the final piece of tube to the roof-through pipe I switched it on.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/P1080937_zpsvrjqqrrx.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/P1080937_zpsvrjqqrrx.jpg.html)

And it's loud, very loud. My Android app showed 72 dba at 3 meter and still 61 dba on the ground floor. It's worse than sitting next to our powervacuum cleaner. :eek: So that is a no-no for me and I ordered another vent, a tube vent which produces max. 46 dba at 3 meter. >> https://www.spirototaal.nl/buisventilator-bs-100-van-staal-3967.html

I estimate that it will be about 37 dba - 40 dba on the ground floor, which is so much better than 61 dba. :) It will arrive tomorrow.

I also got some nice 2mm thick perforated steel plates. One fits perfectly on top of the knife bed (perfect for engraving)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/P1080936_zpsfuxf5joh.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/P1080936_zpsfuxf5joh.jpg.html)

and some smaller ones will be used as spiked beds (great for cutting). I guess the honeycomb bed will remain unused.

Kev Williams
02-23-2017, 5:15 PM
my Triumph came with that exact blower. Without the tube connected to the air-out, its WILL be loud. It won't be anywhere near that loud with the pipe connected...
And I would not mount it to the wall, or anywhere else...As it is, the vibration will turn that whole wall into a woofer. I would get some blankets, or some 3" wall insulation, or whatever, just something soft to just SET the blower on to absorb the noise and vibration...

Erik Goetheer
02-23-2017, 5:25 PM
Well, I did put some rubber material between the exhaust fan and the wall. But I will check what effect the final pipe will have on the sound level.

Doug Fisher
02-23-2017, 5:42 PM
I have the same fan. I routed my air out a window via a custom built window insert. The noise is about as loud outside as it is inside even after using vinyl tubing that has a turn in it after the fan. I may have to buy a duct muffler for it.

Glad you are getting a new fan. There is no way I would trust that fan running out of sight, especially in the attic.

David Somers
02-23-2017, 6:23 PM
I saw someone recently who had taken their fan and suspended it from rope so that it was not in contact with the floor at all (in their garage attic space) and that made a big difference in the noise transmitted through to the garage. Simple.

Jerome Stanek
02-23-2017, 6:25 PM
I have the same fan. I routed my air out a window via a custom built window insert. The noise is about as loud outside as it is inside even after using vinyl tubing that has a turn in it after the fan. I may have to buy a duct muffler for it.

Glad you are getting a new fan. There is no way I would trust that fan running out of sight, especially in the attic.


If the fan fails you will know it no noise

John Lifer
02-23-2017, 10:23 PM
Blower is very loud running without duct attachd. Once hose is on it it will be better. I had door open today and connected it just outside and im sitting 6 feet away. Yeah louder than i want to listen to all day.

Eric, I like your plate, but it looks like that frame around it is 10 to 15mm higher than the plate. I cant tell, but make sure that you have clearance enough so that when machine resets your nozzle doesnt hit it! If too high,you can damage it. I cut some thin stuff and i don't think it would work for me. I put some 3mm thick rulers around the side and was afraid I might hit it! Just be careful

Doug Fisher
02-24-2017, 12:05 AM
>>If the fan fails you will know it no noise<<

I am more worried about the fan overheating and catching on fire and burning unseen in the attic for a while before you are aware. It runs very hot. As others have reported, once these fans get really hot they can ooze grease out from the bearings. I have seen this myself.

Erik Goetheer
02-24-2017, 8:27 AM
John, thanks for your concern. The frame is indeed 15 mm higher and the 2mm thick steel plate is resting on the knife bed. I do have only a few mm's space left between the plate and the auto focus but I'm not sure what happens when the machine gets powered on. So, just to be sure I will remove the plate (and the knife bed for that matter) before I attempt the initial startup of it all.

And I just received the replacement ventilator. It's much smaller and lighter than the Chinese fan. I will install it this weekend so I finally can give the lasermachine a shot.

John Lifer
02-24-2017, 10:13 AM
Machine won't move up and down on it's own. That's for sure. Just watch it and don't forget it's there if it will hit. BTW, the ONLY way to stop it in reset mode or startup mode is to hit emergency stop.
and when you hit the frame button to outline your design, it doesn't stop until finished either.... So if speed is set slow, it take a while :)

Kev Williams
02-24-2017, 2:31 PM
As for failing, mine quit at around a year. No warning, just wouldn't turn on. Could've been just the switch but since my other 3 HF blowers were over 10 years old no issues, another one has been there ever since. :)

David Somers
02-24-2017, 3:21 PM
Doug,

Just an idea. You might consider putting a smoke alarm in your attic above the fan so you have some early warning of a problem. You could also install a wireless camera (or wired if that is easy) so you can actually see the fan before you go running up to the attic.

That is what I have done in my crawl space below the house where my fan is located.

Dave

Erik Goetheer
02-26-2017, 4:12 PM
Okidoki, yesterday I installed the new superduper exhaust fan, and it's great. It exhausts, it's silent and small. I love it. I did mount the fan to the wall with a piece of unused thick rubber mousemat as a vibration damper inbetween. I now can scrap the Chinese junk fan.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/P1080938_zpsvtfnjgov.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/P1080938_zpsvtfnjgov.jpg.html)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/P1080940_zpsgykggwkb.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/P1080940_zpsgykggwkb.jpg.html)

So today I was finally able to power the machine for the first time and to play around a bit. First thing that I designed and made is a small cosmetics double-layered display with in-between stand-offs, everything of 4mm clear acrylic. My wife, who is a sales manager in cosmetics, loves it. So I have her blessing, I guess. :)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Chilabee%20products/Arabesque%20small%20display%20stand/P1080952_zpsp8oophla.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Chilabee%20products/Arabesque%20small%20display%20stand/P1080952_zpsp8oophla.jpg.html)

Yep, I'm up and running with my new laser machine. Next thing to do is check the alignment of the mirrors and lenses and leveling out the bed with the laserbeam, if necessary.

I would again like to thank everybody again who shared their knowledge and experience with me, I hope to do the same in the future.

Jeff Body
02-26-2017, 9:19 PM
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/P1080938_zpsvtfnjgov.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/P1080938_zpsvtfnjgov.jpg.html)




Do you grill in your attic? That's so convenient.

David Somers
02-26-2017, 10:14 PM
Congrats Eric!! Nice job on your first go around too! Anxious to hear how you like the machine as you get more familiar with it!

I agree with Jeff! Grilling in the attic is a terrific idea! You can make use of your old blower to fan the flames of your grill up there, as well as to simulate having the wind in your hair as you grill! Excellent thinking!!! <grin>

Erik Goetheer
02-27-2017, 8:19 AM
.... I agree with Jeff! Grilling in the attic is a terrific idea! You can make use of your old blower to fan the flames of your grill up there, as well as to simulate having the wind in your hair as you grill! Excellent thinking!!! <grin>

Yep, this way I can grill the whole year round. LOL And it will give the Chinese blower something to do. Great idea! :)

Erik Goetheer
02-28-2017, 12:29 PM
I aligned the mirrors today, as well the laser tube and the vertical beam alignment. All using the great tutorial that I found at Just Add sharks.

The mirrors were really perfectly in alignment (1), the tube needed a little lift at the back, which resulted in a perfect Bulls eye at mirror 3 (2).

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/20170228_181042_zpsbazspvoc.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Laser%20Engraver/Arrival%20of%20RF-9060/20170228_181042_zpsbazspvoc.jpg.html)

BTW, to all but especially the newbies (of which I'm one), check ALL nuts and bolts of your Chinese machine. I had quite a few that were probably tightened by a little kid, or baby. They were sooooo loose. Especially a lot of the locking knots of the mirror mounts.

David Somers
02-28-2017, 2:52 PM
Eric,

You might let Blanca know about anything you found she and the floor crew should be aware of. Like the loose locking nuts.

Dave

Bill George
02-28-2017, 5:07 PM
The only issue I had with my Ray Fine fiber was the inexpensive fan motors used in the main unit. I replaced them with ball bearing units off eBay and the noise is gone. All my screws and connections were perfect. The machine worked out of the box and I am now to the point where I can do just about any type of engraving I want. The Rotary however is put aside for another day.....

Lee DeRaud
02-28-2017, 5:58 PM
Just a thought, but a laser and a CNC can work together nicely, complimenting each other in terms of materials and thicknesses. A CNC can cut thicker materials for an assembly that would not work well on a laser, and then your laser can do the fine engraving that it is so accomplished at. If you are buying from China doing both is not a bad combination and the costs may be less than you think. That is how I ended up with both for what that is worth.As the resident contrarian, a few observations:

1. Any job the laser can do, it can do better/faster than the CNC. (Including making parts for a CNC...DAMHIKT.)
2. The workflow kabuki dance for the CNC just isn't any fun if you've already spent a couple years getting spoiled by the design-print two-step of the laser. Design, sort and separate by tool, generate multiple material-dependent tool paths, 'print', change bits, 'print' again, lather rinse repeat...
3. The computer that makes both of these widgets do anything useful is much happier indoors, with air-conditioning and a beer supply. The laser is more than happy to share that space, which is a lot more than I can say for the CNC, which has a rather appalling disregard for the comfort and sanity of its owner/operator.
4. Unless you spend more for the CNC than the laser, through-cutting thick wood on the CNC is also a multi-pass job and you still end up doing "post-processing" to deal with the tabs that keep the cut-outs attached to the waste so the whole thing doesn't launch in random directions when you get to the bottom. The two ways around this problem are either (1) to cut a pass or two with the CNC, then do a rough-cut with the bandsaw, and finish with the flush-cut bit on the router table, or (2) use the laser to cut a template in 1/4" MDF, followed by the same rough-cut on the bandsaw and cleanup on the router table. At that point you wonder why, since method 2 is faster than method 1, you have that big lump gathering dust in the garage and put the CNC up for sale. (Note: I am NOT in the sign-making business.)

Jerome Stanek
02-28-2017, 6:19 PM
As the resident contrarian, a few observations:

1. Any job the laser can do, it can do better/faster than the CNC. (Including making parts for a CNC...DAMHIKT.)
2. The workflow kabuki dance for the CNC just isn't any fun if you've already spent a couple years getting spoiled by the design-print two-step of the laser. Design, sort and separate by tool, generate multiple material-dependent tool paths, 'print', change bits, 'print' again, lather rinse repeat...
3. The computer that makes both of these widgets do anything useful is much happier indoors, with air-conditioning and a beer supply. The laser is more than happy to share that space, which is a lot more than I can say for the CNC, which has a rather appalling disregard for the comfort and sanity of its owner/operator.
4. Unless you spend more for the CNC than the laser, through-cutting thick wood on the CNC is also a multi-pass job and you still end up doing "post-processing" to deal with the tabs that keep the cut-outs attached to the waste so the whole thing doesn't launch in random directions when you get to the bottom. The two ways around this problem are either (1) to cut a pass or two with the CNC, then do a rough-cut with the bandsaw, and finish with the flush-cut bit on the router table, or (2) use the laser to cut a template in 1/4" MDF, followed by the same rough-cut on the bandsaw and cleanup on the router table. At that point you wonder why, since method 2 is faster than method 1, you have that big lump gathering dust in the garage and put the CNC up for sale. (Note: I am NOT in the sign-making business.)


I have both will your laser cut 1 inch thick PVC that my CNC cuts in one pass and both live in an air conditioned shop side by side. I make more from my CNC than my laser.

Erik Goetheer
02-28-2017, 6:21 PM
David, good idea, will do.

Lee DeRaud
02-28-2017, 8:23 PM
I have both will your laser cut 1 inch thick PVC that my CNC cuts in one pass and both live in an air conditioned shop side by side. I make more from my CNC than my laser.What part of "resident contrarian" did you not understand? :)

It's quite possible that my (now departed) CNC would have cut 1" PVC in one pass...never tried it, can't stand the stuff, and we were discussing wood. And that "one pass" still requires some kind of post-processing, unless you've got something fairly pricey in the way of vacuum hold-down to eliminate the need for tabs. And it sounds like you have something very pricey in the way of chip/dust collection if you're routing PVC in the same room as a laser and attending computer.

Just a note: I'm one of those mutants who own a laser because I can and it's cool, strictly as a hobby. The terms "shop" and "profit" translate into "garage" and "you'd pay money for THAT?!?" in this context.

Kev Williams
02-28-2017, 9:20 PM
All I know is I couldn't live without either :) -- I just now ran around the house with my 'machines' pad listing what jobs for what machines-- as of right now I have:

3 jobs for the Older 5000XT
9 jobs for the newer XT
1 cowbell job for the 5000
4 jobs for the IS400
4 jobs for the IS7000
2 jobs for one of the 3400's
---that's just the CNC machines...

3 jobs for the LS900
3 jobs for the GCC
2 jobs for the Triumph
9 jobs for the fiber

-- and I'm only done with 1/2 of today's emails... ;)

Jerome Stanek
03-01-2017, 7:06 AM
I cut .75 wood in one pass also. PVC is my money maker. Shop is just that not a garage. Vacuum hold down is what I use no tabs but if I need them I use a flush trim bit to remove fits in the kerf. PVC dust is not dust but chips

Erik Goetheer
03-01-2017, 3:17 PM
Hi Guys, please don't hijack my topic. :) Your info is so interesting that it deserves its own topic. ;)