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Normand Leblanc
11-24-2016, 8:41 PM
This post is for anyone living in cold climate and, whoever do not have to deal with snow and ice, see next post and please do not give your opinion on something you don't know. It's pretty technical so we'll keep this discussion for those concerned.

For this difficult sharpening, I propose the following procedure using a block plane.

- Close the mouth as much as you can to prevent tear-outs.
- Use your finest stone to sharpen your blade. You can use the ruler trick and a secondary bevel is a must.
- Those using a regular 45° bedded plane can also use the chip breaker effect.
- Clamp your ice scraper in your vice.
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- A scraper should be sharpened at ~45°. Any deviation from that angle on the low side will get you an edge that won't last. If you end up on the high side, the scraper will be very difficult to push. So, 45 is an important angle in the geometry of a scraper.
- Using your plane, start slowly and be careful not to plane a rounded edge. The use of a straight edge to verify your progress is a must.
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- Have a look at your shavings. They should be almost translucent.
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Your scraper surface finish has to be very smooth otherwise you will scratch your windshield.
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Normand
PS: George and Patrick, there is no snow in your areas. Please don't interfere with my post. Same comment for those guys in Oz.

Patrick Chase
11-24-2016, 9:07 PM
PS: George and Patrick, there is no snow in your areas. Please don't interfere with my post. Same comment for those guys in Oz.

Have you ever considered that people might have lived in other places than their current location (Bloomington Indiana in my case, which does get snow). Or that we travel (I used to spend about 50 days/year skiing in Tahoe and Mammoth). Also, it snows in Oz - there are actually a fair number of skiers from down there. It's a pretty sizable country with a decent range of climates.

PS/EDIT: It snows in Virginia too!

Pat Barry
11-24-2016, 9:18 PM
Are we talking bevel up or bevel down scrapers? I prefer bevel up myself. I can agree that 45 is a good general purpose scraper bevel angle. I would be tempted to try 30 but don't have the desire to invest the effort. I do want to offer a tip though, and that is to start the car, let it warm up, run the defroster before ice scraping.

steven c newman
11-24-2016, 9:27 PM
Do you use a ruler trick to add a back bevel to the scraper?

steven c newman
11-24-2016, 9:34 PM
Perhaps someone needs to lighten up? Patrick, maybe? Enter into the spirit of the post, and have a wee bit of F U N with this post? You do remember what having fun is, right?

Ok, does the scraper need stropped? How thick are the ice shavings? Maybe a picture of a digital caliper showing how thin a shaving the sharpened scraper can do?

Normand Leblanc
11-24-2016, 9:37 PM
Do you use a ruler trick to add a back bevel to the scraper?

I was talking about the plane blade but you just got a fantastic idea. We need to make a study about it.

Pat,
Yep. The defroster is a must.
Bevel down scrapers for sure...what are you smoking!

Patrick,
Your a lost case :)

steven c newman
11-24-2016, 9:53 PM
Does the scraper use a chipbreaker to prevent tear-out? Or, do you have to hold the scraper at a higher angler. How do you read the grain of the ice?

Bill Houghton
11-24-2016, 10:20 PM
And across the windshield/windows, or up and down?

Normand Leblanc
11-24-2016, 10:36 PM
And across the windshield/windows, or up and down?

What are you thinking? Has to be across otherwise, going up and down, you will get convex shavings and the surface finish won't be nice.

Steven, make sure you don't reduce the scraper angle too much you may run into a clearance problem.

steven c newman
11-24-2016, 10:46 PM
Does the back need to be perfectly flat? Or can it have a hollow like a Japanese scraper would have.....( Tokyo got snow yesterday...)

Ryan Mooney
11-24-2016, 11:27 PM
I prefer to draw file mine like you would a card scraper. Even a crappy old dull file cuts that plastic like buuttteeerrr...


Also 45 is way to steep 50 or bust. Back beveling.... I dunno... seems like coping the back with a curved scraper would be the best way to handle that :rolleyes:

Seriously though this is actually something I've done for years and it does make the ice peal off a lot better than the old dull beat up edge.

Tom Stenzel
11-25-2016, 12:07 AM
All this is just fine and dandy for the windshield. What about the side windows where you'll run into end grain ice? Must break out the low angle block scraper! Plus now I'll have to come up with a honing guide for all this.

Normand, my ice scraper shavings are more translucent than yours. Of course if you too had started with a clear plastic scraper...

-Tom

steven c newman
11-25-2016, 12:14 AM
Maybe Woodpeckers can come up with a "One Time Tool" for this?

I have to use my jointer scraper, as the smaller "smoother scrapers" are too short.

I wonder, do scrapers also come in a corrugated model? How do you lap the sole on a scraper?

Patrick Chase
11-25-2016, 12:36 AM
I have to use my jointer scraper

You mean like this (https://www.amazon.com/Dakine-DAKINE-10-Inch-Scraper/dp/B00P8DGKGC/ref=pd_lpo_468_tr_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=Z5P0FVJ15Q36ATVGW4X6)?

There are also scraper (http://www.tognar.com/toko-world-cup-scraper-sharpener/) jointers (https://www.amazon.com/Plexi-Scraper-Sharpener-by-Swix/dp/B000YU3P6W), including a very expensive motorized one (http://www.skiscrapersharpener.com/). I never used any of those (there are much simpler approaches, that don't even require dulling your perfectly good block plane) but I never cease to be amazed at the lengths to which people will go.

PS - Files and drywall screens both work really really well on scrapers.

Pat Barry
11-25-2016, 7:08 AM
Bevel down scrapers for sure...what are you smoking!:)
If you are a committed bevel down scraper I encourage you to try the bevel up approach this morning. I think you will immediately sense the improved control, not to mention the ergonomic benefits. With the bevel up approach you get a significant improvement in *reach* as compared to the bevel down method. As an added bonus the clearance angle has far more *adjustability*.

James Pallas
11-25-2016, 7:17 AM
Do you brush first or after the first scrub? Have you tried one of those pull type scrapers? When is it appropriate to use a toothing edge? Do you use one of those liquids to preserve the surface after it's properly prepared?
Jim

Charles Bjorgen
11-25-2016, 7:29 AM
Fun post, Normand. I've actually thought about sharpening our plastic scrapers which, here in Minnesota, are frequently needed. They do indeed get dull. I'm reminded of the scene in the movie Fargo in which William Macy chopped at his windshield with a plastic scraper.

Some years ago I posted on another forum my experience in sharpening a potato peeler right around Thanksgiving. Replies were a mixed bag of tongue in cheek to you gotta be kidding.

Glen Canaday
11-25-2016, 8:24 AM
Haha.

I am also in Minnesota. I don't need to watch Fargo to KNOW. ;)

I never thought of sharpening my ice scraper. Perhaps that accounts for the chatter and horrible tearout?

Normand Leblanc
11-25-2016, 9:02 AM
I see that it's way too technical for most.

Clarifications:
- Never scrape against the grain.
- When the ice is very thick you can sharpen your scraper like you would do for a scrub plane blade.
- Don't argue with me...I'm the more experienced here.

I'm one hour drive north of Montreal. I'm on a lake and this morning it's frozen.

John K Jordan
11-25-2016, 9:04 AM
I "sharpen" them with sandpaper glued to a piece of wood. I don't worry about a razor edge since it will be blunted quickly.

We usually only get snow in TN several times a year and it is gone in a day or so. We still need scrapers. I grew up in Pennsylvania and I almost think the windshield scraping, while not as frequent, is harder here. Often the need is to remove a solid layer of clear ice from frozen rain. Even an puny 1/8" of hard ice is a challenge, best met by running a hot defroster for a while to loosen then scraping off the sheets. Some people use the deicer in the pressurized can but I dislike the chemicals.

JKJ

Bruce Haugen
11-25-2016, 10:23 AM
Haha.

I am also in Minnesota. I don't need to watch Fargo to KNOW. ;)

I never thought of sharpening my ice scraper. Perhaps that accounts for the chatter and horrible tearout?

Minnesota here, too. I think I have the last brass bladed ice scraper in existence. Nothing beats them.

Patrick Chase
11-25-2016, 10:24 AM
I "sharpen" them with sandpaper glued to a piece of wood. I don't worry about a razor edge since it will be blunted quickly.

Try the same thing with a drywall screen some time. The holes in the screen clear the plexiglass dust really well. Body/Pansar files are also good for rapid material removal.

george wilson
11-25-2016, 11:00 AM
You can scratch up your windshield if you sharpen the scraper with SAND PAPER!! That will embed pieces of abrasive into the edge of the scraper,and will ruin your glass. DON'T DO IT!! If you wish to FILE the scraper sharp,make sure the file is clean,with no metal particles still in the teeth.

I'm sure that many of you have noticed that you've scratched the windshield because there was just a film of dirt or dried mud on it from cars passing you in the other direction the last time you drove. You come out in the morning to scrape the windshield clear,and the dirty film scratches your glass.

I recommend just running the engine and letting the car warm up,and defrost the windshield with warm air from inside the car. Heavy snow can then be more gently removed once the bottom layer of ice and dirt have been melted.

Patrick Chase
11-25-2016, 11:40 AM
You can scratch up your windshield if you sharpen the scraper with SAND PAPER!! That will embed pieces of abrasive into the edge of the scraper,and will ruin your glass. DON'T DO IT!! If you wish to FILE the scraper sharp,make sure the file is clean,with no metal particles still in the teeth.

George, like me you can't possibly know anything about snow. Normand said so in post #1 :-)

Seriously, you're right: Sandpaper (and drywall screens) are useful for bulk removal, but you have to follow them with something else to get rid of any embedded particles as you say.

John K Jordan
11-25-2016, 11:54 AM
You can scratch up your windshield if you sharpen the scraper with SAND PAPER!! That will embed pieces of abrasive into the edge of the scraper,and will ruin your glass. DON'T DO IT!! If you wish to FILE the scraper sharp,make sure the file is clean,with no metal particles still in the teeth.


Maybe better sandpaper is in order. I sand the top side with coarse paper enough to take off the worst chips, not the flat edge that runs against the window. Good to rinse the edge too. Hasn't scratched here in decades of this.

Now a plastic aircraft window needs special care. We de-iced with a water hose.

Pat Barry
11-25-2016, 12:00 PM
George, like me you can't possibly know anything about snow. Normand said so in post #1 :-)

Seriously, you're right: Sandpaper (and drywall screens) are useful for bulk removal, but you have to follow them with something else to get rid of any embedded particles as you say.
Baloney - if you follow the bevel UP method I have espoused, there is no issue with sandpaper contaminating the surface. This should be obvious to all, even Californians.

steven c newman
11-25-2016, 12:13 PM
Wonder iF anyone has the L-N or Veritas versions?

Ryan Mooney
11-25-2016, 1:34 PM
If you are a committed bevel down scraper I encourage you to try the bevel up approach this morning. I think you will immediately sense the improved control, not to mention the ergonomic benefits. With the bevel up approach you get a significant improvement in *reach* as compared to the bevel down method. As an added bonus the clearance angle has far more *adjustability*.

Balderdash. If you go bevel up you start having to mess around adjusting the chip breaker and there goes all the time savings :rolleyes: :cool:

Patrick Chase
11-25-2016, 2:14 PM
Wonder iF anyone has the L-N or Veritas versions?

I exclusively use Veritable PP-69 (tm)(r) powdered plastic blades for their small grain size and superior life. I only hone them using blocks of Natural Concrete quarried from original sections of the 1950s Interstate Highway system. You have to be on the lookout for stray hunks for rebar though.

(for the record, yes I'm aware that sintered plastics have been around for a long long time. I'm an ex-ski-racer after all :-)

Jim Koepke
11-25-2016, 2:36 PM
Baloney - if you follow the bevel UP method I have espoused, there is no issue with sandpaper contaminating the surface. This should be obvious to all, even Californians.

It is amazing how many are under the false impression of it not snowing in California. They often forget the geography of the state. One bit most people, even some Californians do not realize is Reno, Nevada is further west than Los Angeles, California. Some parts of California are as far north as the northern reaches of Indiana, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

California has the highest peak, Mt Whitney, and lowest valley, death valley, in the continental United States.

And even many Californians know if you get a particle of SiC embedded in the edge of your window scraper you may end up with a scratched windshield.

jtk

Jim Koepke
11-25-2016, 2:41 PM
One more thing about California... The western most bar in the continental U.S. is in Ferndale, California.

jtk

Patrick Chase
11-25-2016, 3:13 PM
It is amazing how many are under the false impression of it not snowing in California. They often forget the geography of the state.

And more relevantly the *topography*. In addition to Whitney California has ~9 other 14000 foot peaks (depending on how you count, I'm only including ones with >1000 feet of relief). It gets pretty snowy up there. Heck, the mountain lakes freeze just as solid as Normand's!

Pat Barry
11-25-2016, 3:20 PM
If you are dealing with snow, not ice, then get a small plastic snow pusher shovel, That gets rid of the bulk of the stuff. If there is ice underneath refer to previous posts for proper methods to employ once the bulk is gone..

Bruce Haugen
11-25-2016, 5:17 PM
Snip
California has the highest peak, Mt Whitney, and lowest valley, death valley, in the continental United States.
Yet more snippage
jtk

I believe you misspoke, Jim; contiguous United States, perhaps, but surely not continental US. Mt Denali is 5,000 ft higher and yet manages to be on the same continent. Just another nit.

David Eisenhauer
11-25-2016, 6:07 PM
What is this "snow" and "ice" you speak of? We are still looking for rain to fall here a little more often than once every three years or so. And this "scraper" thing must be that gizmo the agent was so proud of showing off to me as being provided with my rental Explorer when I worked in Connecticut during the winter several years ago.

steven c newman
11-25-2016, 6:27 PM
The western most bar? That would be the one on Adak Naval Air Station, when the navy was there....BTDT...I even took the 1 minute tour of the Adak National Forest.....

Jim Koepke
11-25-2016, 7:13 PM
The western most bar? That would be the one on Adak Naval Air Station, when the navy was there....BTDT...I even took the 1 minute tour of the Adak National Forest.....

Sorry guys, meant the 'lower 48' or as Pat pointed out Contiguous states and western most public bar.

jtk

Patrick Chase
11-25-2016, 7:42 PM
The western most bar? That would be the one on Adak Naval Air Station, when the navy was there....BTDT...I even took the 1 minute tour of the Adak National Forest.....

It lives on as the westernmost Superfund site in the CONUS.

David Dalzell
11-25-2016, 11:40 PM
Normand - You absolutely cannot (repeat cannot) scrape horizontally i.e. across the windshield. Even tyros know that snow usually falls DOWNWARD; so the natural grain of the snow cover is from up towards down on the windshield. Thus to get the cleanest, smoothest finish you must use a very sharp scraper, set to a very fine cut, and then gently and smoothly shave the snow from the top of the windshield towards the bottom, and overlapping each cut by no more than 25%.

Patrick Chase
11-26-2016, 12:07 AM
Normand - You absolutely cannot (repeat cannot) scrape horizontally i.e. across the windshield. Even tyros know that snow usually falls DOWNWARD; so the natural grain of the snow cover is from up towards down on the windshield. Thus to get the cleanest, smoothest finish you must use a very sharp scraper, set to a very fine cut, and then gently and smoothly shave the snow from the top of the windshield towards the bottom, and overlapping each cut by no more than 25%.

Note that you need to camber the scraper to exactly match your windshield (or you need to have a car that was made before they figured out how to economically manufacture curved glass. Either works).

Ryan Mooney
11-26-2016, 12:51 AM
W

Note that you need to camber the scraper to exactly match your windshield (or you need to have a car that was made before they figured out how to economically manufacture curved glass. Either works).

Hmm, I'm pretty sure my windshield has a variable camber. You have complicated the issue substantially.

Patrick Chase
11-26-2016, 1:08 AM
Hmm, I'm pretty sure my windshield has a variable camber. You have complicated the issue substantially.

Changing a cambered scraper's cutting angle also changes its effective camber radius... but now we're getting into "advanced windshield fettling".

PS - The sorts of scrapers that are used on skis are relatively thin and rectangular, such that they can be bent into camber just like a card scraper :-)

David Dalzell
11-26-2016, 1:14 AM
Shame on me! I completely forgot about curved windshields. My tools (and myself) are all from before the era of curves.

David Dalzell
11-26-2016, 1:31 AM
Changing a cambered scraper's cutting angle also changes its effective camber radius... but now we're getting into "advanced windshield fettling".

PS - The sorts of scrapers that are used on skis are relatively thin and rectangular, such that they can be bent into camber just like a card scraper :-)

I am sure that guy from down under will soon provide a detailed tutorial on "advanced windshield fettling" somewhere in the woodshop. We will all try his described technique, with varying results. This down under tutorial will soon be followed by a video tutorial from that up over guy. His tutorial will demonstrate how to evade "advanced windshield fettling" by using a piece of soft pine with a cheap chisel imbedded into it. Many of us snow country people will also try the up over guy's technique, with varying results. In the end, the XYZ corporation will steal both techniques, sell an "must have it" tool, which doesn't work very well, but is very cheap.

Malcolm Schweizer
11-26-2016, 1:57 AM
Why are you scraping your windows with that surfboard scraper? I'm also confused about the ice on your windshield- you must have an amazing air conditioner to be icing up your windshield like that. I suggest rolling down the windows and letting the warm air in to remove that ice. If you must scrape your windows with that thing, make sure you get every bit of surfboard wax off it first or you'll have quite a mess.

Happy to share my infinite wisdom.

Patrick Chase
11-26-2016, 2:31 AM
I am sure that guy from down under will soon provide a detailed tutorial on "advanced windshield fettling" somewhere in the woodshop.

"in the woodshop" heh heh. cute (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/).

george wilson
11-26-2016, 9:54 AM
Nornamd: You may not have read that I spent 6 years in Alaska in some of my other posts. I can also assure you that it DOES snow in Va. Some Winters we get lucky and get clear through a Winter without snow. But,snow it CAN,and sometimes quite a lot. It can,and DOES ice storm here. These are the ones I HATE,because the power lines get so heavy they break and fall down. At times we are WEEKS without power. Tree limbs also fall on power lines,and on roofs! I had a friend's roof get totally speared by a 3" branch. It normally would not have done much damage. But,this one fell straight down like a spear. Big end FIRST,somehow. Fell from a very tall tree. It penetrated clear through their kitchen roof,taking the chandelier with it. What a MESS!! Insulation,electric wires,busted chandelier all hanging down in their kitchen. And do you know who fixed it? My friend's wife!! Though her husband works at NASA as a machinist,she never lets him work on the house!! She's quite the unusual woman. Fixed everything. I happened to be pulling into their driveway when it happened. I had a plastic tarp in the back,which I gave to their son. He was in his late teens and went up on the roof,pulled out the branch,and nailed the tarp down.

And WHY doesn't Vicky let her husband work on the house? One time when she was away he was painting the house. When she got home.he had painted a very large Runic "F" on the house(their initial, and a German last name!!) THAT got painted OVER!! Took a few coats! Vicky is a terrific craftsman whose father restored Bugattis. She grew up in that environment, helping out in his large shop. Her husband did make new bronze bearings for their furnace blower motor when it went bad. He has a lathe and a mill in the basement. Used to make some fairly tricky spare parts for Bugattis when his wife's father was still working. I think Jay Leno now has a reproduction Bugatti Atlantic Coupe that Vicki's father worked on.With his millions,I don't see why he doesn't have a REAL one!

Anyway,I MUCH prefer to let the motor warm up the defroster,and let it melt the ice and DIRT from beneath. I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT I HAVE SCRATCHED WINDSHIELDS with accumulated fine sand(They DO sand the roads here!) and dirt. When that scraper gets sand embedded in it,IT SCRATCHES. Luckily,I was only scratching he windshields of my old 1950's Chevys,and NOT the family car! Defrosting is a much better solution than attacking the frozen windshield with a scraper. After the defroster melts it beneath,the ice and snow comes off easily. And, NO RULER TRICK is needed!!:)

Ron Kellison
11-26-2016, 6:46 PM
Minnesota here, too. I think I have the last brass bladed ice scraper in existence. Nothing beats them.

I found a stash of the old-fashioned brass ones down in Vermont last year, sitting on the counter beside the cash register. $1 each, so I bought 5. 4 of those have been "acquired" by family members and I can't find the last one! Damn!

Jim Koepke
11-26-2016, 7:55 PM
I found a stash of the old-fashioned brass ones down in Vermont last year, sitting on the counter beside the cash register. $1 each, so I bought 5. 4 of those have been "acquired" by family members and I can't find the last one! Damn!

Mine always seems to find its way to behind my truck seat.

jtk

Patrick Chase
11-26-2016, 9:15 PM
Mine always seems to find its way to behind my truck seat.

jtk

OK, I'll confess: I buy acrylic scrapers that I use for both skis and car windows by the dozen. I sharpen them when they dull, but as soon as one gets chipped up too badly I "donate" it to one of the junior racers with a locker near mine or a cheapskate buddy who thinks that sharpening them is a good use of their time. Life's too short (and acrylic sheet is too cheap) to spend my time slaving over scrapers.

Working wood is enjoyable because of the unique challenges and opportunities that each piece presents. Acrylic is just.... plastic. A similar attitude towards working metal explains why I favor fast sharpening media like higher-end synthetic waterstones and diamonds btw.

george wilson
11-27-2016, 8:38 AM
You must be forgetting that you can make many beautiful things from metal,or combinations of metal and wood,Patrick.
My sculpture teacher,William Reimann made incredibly beautiful sculptures from clear acrylic. Now he is doing something entirely different. I wish he would go back to acrylics.

Try making the things below just from wood!:)

Tom Vanzant
11-27-2016, 9:16 AM
George, I understand the NO RULER TRICK needed, but how can it work without a burr? ��

Patrick Chase
11-27-2016, 12:27 PM
You must be forgetting that you can make many beautiful things from metal,or combinations of metal and wood,Patrick.
My sculpture teacher,William Reimann made incredibly beautiful sculptures from clear acrylic. Now he is doing something entirely different. I wish he would go back to acrylics.

Try making the things below just from wood!:)

Somehow I knew you were gonna say something like that. How about "similar attitude towards sharpening metal"? :-)

That's obviously VERY nice work!

I've never gotten into metalworking. I can weld passably and do basic machining as well as the next mechanical engineer (which is to say, I make Real Machinists cringe whenever I enter their shops), but that's about it. Something else to try.

Jim Belair
11-27-2016, 3:29 PM
One of the most enjoyable threads I've read in a long time. Good on ya Normand. Too bad we don't have a "post of the month" smiley.

Normand Leblanc
11-27-2016, 4:00 PM
One of the most enjoyable threads I've read in a long time. Good on ya Normand. Too bad we don't have a "post of the month" smiley.

Thanks Jim. For a change I had hope to keep this thread within the northern people but I got a lot of "pollution" from those guys down south. It seems I can't win!

I have particularly like Tom Stenzel's repartee "What about the side windows where you'll run into end grain ice". Every time I read this sentence I keep smiling.

Have a good day,
Normand

george wilson
11-27-2016, 8:39 PM
I don't understand where you are coming from,Normand. We have snow here in Virginia,and sometimes ice storms. We have to scrape our windshields too. I spent most of my life up to age 17 in Oregon,Washington state,and Alaska.I must say I find it unfriendly on your part to invite people to stay out of your thread. This is a public forum,and everyone here is free to enter any thread he feels like,last time I checked. I have never heard of anyone asking some to stay out of their thread.

Normand Leblanc
11-27-2016, 8:55 PM
I don't understand where you are coming from,Normand. We have snow here in Virginia,and sometimes ice storms. We have to scrape our windshields too. I spent most of my life up to age 17 in Oregon,Washington state,and Alaska.I must say I find it unfriendly on your part to invite people to stay out of your thread. This is a public forum,and everyone here is free to enter any thread he feels like,last time I checked. I have never heard of anyone asking some to stay out of their thread.

George,

This whole thread is for fun and I know that a large portion of the US do have snow (at least some). Please don't take any of my comments personal and I was happy to see that you and Patrick did participate with this discussion.

Back to woodworking, I wish to be able to built a tiny fraction of what you're doing sir.

Regards,
Normand

george wilson
11-27-2016, 9:05 PM
Unless I'm getting senile,I seem to recall that it even snowed in Florida for the first time a while back. Not that that gives lifelong residents snow scraping expertise!:)

Ryan Mooney
11-27-2016, 10:35 PM
Unless I'm getting senile,I seem to recall that it even snowed in Florida for the first time a while back. Not that that gives lifelong residents snow scraping expertise!:)

Hah, the folks I knew down in Phoenix just didn't leave the house if there was enough frost to need scraping. I'd bet that the folks in Florida did the same. Of course when it only happens every 2-10 years that's a reasonable approach to things I guess.

James Pallas
11-28-2016, 7:53 AM
Remote starting is a great invention. I wonder if you question your decision to make your garage into a wood shop when you are outside at 10 below in a 30 mph wind scraping ice. For that mater why would anyone strap boards to their shoes and jump off a cliff? Just things I think about when I'm nice and warm inside my house being retired.
Jim

george wilson
11-28-2016, 9:18 AM
And why do they strap tanks on their backs and jump into shark infested water? Must be some kind of death wish!!!!!

Bruce Haugen
11-28-2016, 9:59 AM
And why do they strap tanks on their backs and jump into shark infested water? Must be some kind of death wish!!!!!

A friend of mine used to say that the only advantage of being underwater in a steel cage when a shark attacks is that no one can tell that you've just peed in your pants.

Malcolm McLeod
11-29-2016, 9:07 AM
Remote starting is a great invention. I wonder if you question your decision to make your garage into a wood shop when you are outside at 10 below in a 30 mph wind scraping ice. For that mater why would anyone strap boards to their shoes and jump off a cliff? Just things I think about when I'm nice and warm inside my house being retired.
Jim

Repeat after me:
"This is my garage. This is my shop. This is for parking. This is for fun."
"This is my garage. This is my shop. This is for parking. This is for fun."
"This is my garage. This is my shop. This is for parking. This is for fun."
"This is my garage. This is my shop. This is for parking. This is for fun."
"This is my garage. This is my shop. This is......" (repeat until Spring thaw)
--from Fred Stanley's classic film noir "Full Metal Rabbet"

Dave Anderson NH
11-29-2016, 12:40 PM
Yes George, I will testify on your behalf that it snows in Virginia. It sure was a mess this past January when I was in Williamsburg for the 18th century furniture conference. With my all wheel drive sedan and the experience of NH winter driving it sure was entertaining watching you local folks deal with the snow, freezing rain, and the ice. Actually the truth was that it was frightening to watch. The upside of the mess was that driving home on I-95 past DC and Baltimore was a breeze with almost zero traffic on the interstates and I made record time.

Patrick Chase
11-29-2016, 12:50 PM
Yes George, I will testify on your behalf that it snows in Virginia. It sure was a mess this past January when I was in Williamsburg for the 18th century furniture conference. With my all wheel drive sedan and the experience of NH winter driving it sure was entertaining watching you local folks deal with the snow, freezing rain, and the ice. Actually the truth was that it was frightening to watch. The upside of the mess was that driving home on I-95 past DC and Baltimore was a breeze with almost zero traffic on the interstates and I made record time.

If you think that's bad you should come visit Tahoe or Mammoth during a serious storm. Coastal Californian tourons (though I guess I'm one of them now as I only spend about 20 days/yr up there these days) and snow do not mix well.

For added excitement California doesn't allow road salting, only sand. I've had to put chains on both our Subaru and my 4WD truck during really bad storms when the roads sheet over with ice. Fortunately the tourists mostly cower inside when that happens. The ones that don't end up in snowbanks in short order.

Bruce Haugen
11-29-2016, 1:16 PM
Yes George, I will testify on your behalf that it snows in Virginia. It sure was a mess this past January when I was in Williamsburg for the 18th century furniture conference. With my all wheel drive sedan and the experience of NH winter driving it sure was entertaining watching you local folks deal with the snow, freezing rain, and the ice. Actually the truth was that it was frightening to watch. The upside of the mess was that driving home on I-95 past DC and Baltimore was a breeze with almost zero traffic on the interstates and I made record time.

The main office where I once worked was located on the Hill in DC (my ofc was in North Dakota). Our DC office manager said it took her 35 minutes to drive to work except for on snow days. Then she and everyone else who were from northern tier states had a really easy drive. On those days it took her 7 minutes to drive in.

george wilson
11-29-2016, 2:20 PM
The trouble with people in Va. is that they are not used to snow enough to know how to drive in it when it DOES happen!! When we get a real bunch,there are a lot of wrecks.

Jim Koepke
11-29-2016, 2:54 PM
Most of my life was spent in the San Francisco area. It almost never snowed there. I do not consider my driving skills any better than average. It seems when we do have snow here in southern Washington there are a lot of people who grew up here with no idea how to drive in snow when there are other people on the road.

It is kind of like rain to make the nut behind the wheel come loose.

jtk

Bruce Haugen
11-29-2016, 3:10 PM
The trouble with people in Va. is that they are not used to snow enough to know how to drive in it when it DOES happen!! When we get a real bunch,there are a lot of wrecks.

It's not that much better in metro Minnesota, George. It seems that everyone forgets how to drive for the first few weeks of snow season, and worse, they seem to think that if they have a 4wd or awd vehicle, they can stop on a dime.

Jim Koepke
11-29-2016, 3:59 PM
and worse, they seem to think that if they have a 4wd or awd vehicle, they can stop on a dime.

Yes, I recall an encounter with one such tick bit yahoo. He did actually stop on a dime. Unfortunately that dime was in the glove box of the car he plowed into.

jtk

Pat Barry
11-29-2016, 4:09 PM
tick bit yahoo

Love it Jim!

Bruce Haugen
11-29-2016, 5:38 PM
Unfortunately that dime was in the glove box of the car he plowed into.

jtk

Spoken like a true Firesign Theater devotee, Rocky!

James Pallas
11-29-2016, 6:05 PM
Repeat after me:
"This is my garage. This is my shop. This is for parking. This is for fun."
"This is my garage. This is my shop. This is for parking. This is for fun."
"This is my garage. This is my shop. This is for parking. This is for fun."
"This is my garage. This is my shop. This is for parking. This is for fun."
"This is my garage. This is my shop. This is......" (repeat until Spring thaw)
--from Fred Stanley's classic film noir "Full Metal Rabbet"

Hey Malcolm
I didn't know snow happened in Texas. I thought it just blew through until it hit the Rockies:). Now sand piled up 2 feet deep, I can believe that!
Jim

James Pallas
11-29-2016, 6:11 PM
The main office where I once worked was located on the Hill in DC (my ofc was in North Dakota). Our DC office manager said it took her 35 minutes to drive to work except for on snow days. Then she and everyone else who were from northern tier states had a really easy drive. On those days it took her 7 minutes to drive in.

i grew up there. The traffic circles were the most fun. It looked very much like the bumper car arena at the amusement park. I could watch for hours in a nice warm Capitol Transit bus going to and from school.
Jim

Patrick Chase
11-29-2016, 7:41 PM
It's not that much better in metro Minnesota, George. It seems that everyone forgets how to drive for the first few weeks of snow season, and worse, they seem to think that if they have a 4wd or awd vehicle, they can stop on a dime.

Indeed. The worst snow/ice drivers of all are the inexperienced ones with AWD/4WD.

Back in the old days before antilock brakes transfer-case 4WD actually did help a bit with stopping as it guaranteed that the front and rear ends would rotate at the same speed, which meant that you could pump a bit more aggressively and not have to worry as much about the rear end swinging around etc. Those brain cells are now completely useless though.

In a mostly-RWD vehicle like a truck 4WD/AWD still helps with avoidance since you can "drive out" of some situation where you'd otherwise end up plowing along in a straight line.

Malcolm McLeod
11-30-2016, 9:33 AM
Hey Malcolm
I didn't know snow happened in Texas. I thought it just blew through until it hit the Rockies:). Now sand piled up 2 feet deep, I can believe that!
Jim

We have a true 4-season climate: early summer, summer, late summer, and the cold day. And yes, it snowed on the cold day. Once. It was Super Bowl day too.:eek:

Tom Vanzant
11-30-2016, 10:24 AM
If your tires aren't rolling, you can't steer or brake, just skid/slide.

lowell holmes
11-30-2016, 10:35 AM
As a Galveston County resident, I have NO idea what this string is about. :)

Pat Barry
11-30-2016, 10:53 AM
Indeed. The worst snow/ice drivers of all are the inexperienced ones with AWD/4WD.
This is pure urban folklore at its finest.

Jim Koepke
11-30-2016, 12:02 PM
Spoken like a true Firesign Theater devotee, Rocky!

You caught me.


Love it Jim!

Tick bit yahoo comes from Festus from the radio version of Gun Smoke.

jtk

Patrick Chase
11-30-2016, 3:14 PM
If your tires aren't rolling, you can't steer or brake, just skid/slide.

True, but sometimes you can't steer even with the tires rolling. That's where adding some power in FWD/AWD/4WD can be handy. Of course by the time you get there you've already made at least one mistake, but it happens.

Jim Koepke
11-30-2016, 4:10 PM
If your tires aren't rolling, you can't steer or brake, just skid/slide.

There is such a thing as a controlled slide. I demonstrated this while in the Chicago area one winter. Came to a stop perfectly in our parking space. Kind of shocked all the people in the van that a California boy could do such a thing. It is all physics.

jtk

Tom Stenzel
11-30-2016, 10:19 PM
I noticed no one asked the Most Important Question in this discussion:

How much harder is it to make a smooth drink with ice that has tight interlocking grain ice?

OK, I'll get my coat now. Mine's the one with the ice scraper with the chip breaker in the pocket...

-Tom

Jim Koepke
11-30-2016, 10:44 PM
I noticed no one asked the Most Important Question in this discussion:

How much harder is it to make a smooth drink with ice that has tight interlocking grain ice?

OK, I'll get my coat now. Mine's the one with the ice scraper with the chip breaker in the pocket...

-Tom

Don't feel like you have to slink away Tom. Some people go to the trouble of boiling water twice, with a cooling period between and after before using it to make ice. This supposedly removes all the air in order to produce a grain free, clear cube. This means the only grain would be in the beverage surrounding the cubes.

Let us not get started on those who insist upon spherical or glacial ice.

jtk

Rod Sheridan
12-01-2016, 8:13 AM
And across the windshield/windows, or up and down?

Across of course.

This is just the roughing stage so the object is to break the ice off in big chunks.

For the final stage you use the Lee Valley ice scraper with the brass blade, followed by a burnishing with the leather work gloves you're wearing.............Rod.

Michael Dye
12-01-2016, 9:04 AM
I pay people to keep my windshields clear. What is an "ice scraper"?

Normand Leblanc
12-05-2016, 2:23 PM
They should have "scraped" the streets this morning in Montreal. Hilarious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0CJMGUhr5U

Rich Riddle
12-05-2016, 5:21 PM
Can't someone make a power scraper? I heard it's easier, faster, and better.

Malcolm McLeod
12-05-2016, 7:08 PM
...a power scraper?
I call it sunshine.

Ole Anderson
12-06-2016, 8:57 AM
Yea, enough of this neanderthal scraping thing. It's time Milwaukee came out with a 20 volt Fuel windshield ice remover tool.