Bosch safety table saw on this old house

[Bradley Gray]

I happened on the "this old house" show a couple days ago and Tommy did a demo of the Bosch flesh sensing saw, hot dog and all.

No mention of lawsuits.

[Greg Peterson]

I saw this too. I think the dual cartridge is a clever idea. And the blade is not sacrificed in the process. The lock out feature is a feature that will likely come in handy for the hobbyist that wants to keep the young ones from using it.

[Ted Prinz]

Another one who saw the episode. I'd heard about the technology but hadn't seen a demo. Yeah, the double cartridges are cool. And the blade isn't sacrificed. HOWEVER, I saw a report that Bosch lost a court case and won't be able to continue selling them in the US.

[Jim Mackell]

And here's the story,

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016/09/13/sawstop-initial-victory-lawsuit-bosch (http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016/09/13/sawstop-initial-victory-lawsuit-bosch)

[Ronald Blue]

For those who think Mr Glass is interested in your safety notice he doesn't even want those who might already have it to be able to get replacement cartridges. Yeah he is concerned for your safety above all else....NOT!!! His patents will likely expire before this is resolved but more importantly Bosch will license their technology for others to use. That's what they do. They don't try to strong arm the market and force one system on everyone.

[Tom Trees]

Is it really true that 65 thousand tablesaw injures a year happen !!!!!
Is this in the USA only ? ...
I would just like to be able to say this with a bit more confidence to scare away potential users
that have not researched safe use of the tablesaw .
No-one is gonna touch mine full stop ,and I don't wanna come across as an (insert insulting word of choice here)
Thanks folks
Keep safe
Tom

[Jerry Wright]

Fwiw, my local urgent care doctors say that their biggest incidences of table saw injuries are from kickbacks. Ergo, the need for splitters.

[Bradley Gray]

And here's the story,

(http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016/09/13/sawstop-initial-victory-lawsuit-bosch)http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016...-lawsuit-bosch (http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016/09/13/sawstop-initial-victory-lawsuit-bosch)

Thanks for posting this Jim, very interesting That article also contains a link to Bosch's response. (http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016/09/15/bosch-responds-sawstop-lawsuit)

[Larry Frank]

According to the CPSC, in 2007 thru 2008, there were about 79,800 accidents which resulted in emergency room visits or about 39,900 per year.

86% involved ripping

40.5% involved a kick back

66% had no blade guard

30% people were 65 or older.

It is contained in the "Survey of Injuries Involving Stationary Saws" by the CPSC.

There is a lot of interesting information in it and dispels a lot of commonly held ideas about table saw accidents.

[Tom Trees]

Wow ...:eek:
That's shocking
Thank you for the info Larry .
I might print that and stick it somewhere close to the saw .
Good Luck everyone

[johnny means]

Do you really believe Bosch wouldn't have done the same thing? They just weren't innovative enough to come up with the idea first.

[George Bokros]

I saw the Bosch saw at the Hartville Hardware tool sale two weeks ago.

[Bradley Gray]

The Bosch saw seems to be somewhat innovative - I like to encourage innovation.

According to Bosch's response, Sawstop amended their patents to include any method of dropping the blade after they learned of the Bosch saw.

[Greg Peterson]

Hard to say what another company would have done with the technology.
Let's be grateful that many of the safety features currently in our motor vehicles aren't subjected to the same dynamics as our woodworking safety equipment.

Perhaps I'm just comparing apples to oranges, but patents over the last 20 years or so have been more about revenue stream than innovation. See Lucent Technology or HP as examples of the patent as a revenue model.

[Warren Wilson]

My local tool retailer was speaking to a SawStop rep yesterday and she told him that they considered this matter was a long way from settled.

[Ronald Blue]

It's really not hard to say with Bosch. Not if you look into their business plan at all. If you have a vehicle with ABS brakes then it likely has Bosch components or Bosch licensed components. Regardless of your vehicle make it probably has been impacted by the Bosch corporation. That is but one area that they do this in. The majority of diesel engines use Bosch injection systems. It's almost a certainty that Bosch will work with the other companies to use their technology at a fair price in their table saws.
Another thing to be noted is that just because you were issued a patent doesn't mean that it will stand up in court. That will be the bigger test in the end. Some of these patents may be thrown out. Then you can look at the court battle between Apple and Samsung. In the end only lawyers profited as there was no impact that the consumer could see. As I said in a previous post these patents will expire before it's resolved if even then. Every other player in the market will likely be using the Bosch system and SawStop's strong arm tactics will have failed miserably. This is their last ditch attempt to control the market.

[Jim Dwight]

I think the most accurate comment is that the matter is a long way from settled. SS won an initial skirmish but the range of possible outcomes still includes the SS patents being thrown out and SS being declaired an infringer of Bosch patents. Bosch could also be judged to be an infringer and barred from sales in the U. S.. Patent lawsuits can take a lot of financial resources to continue. It would seem more likely that Bosch has the necessary resources. But who knows? SS may "win" and we may have only one source of blade braking technology. If I was in the market, I would buy the Bosch. I think the technology is better and I don't like the way Steve Gass has chosen to market "his product". But I also know a lot of people like his saws and I think that's great.

[Phillip Gregory]

Fwiw, my local urgent care doctors say that their biggest incidences of table saw injuries are from kickbacks. Ergo, the need for splitters.

I work in healthcare and my experience is that the chainsaw is the most dangerous wood-cutting tool out there. You have 14"+ of completely unguarded cutter surface, people who work on unsure footing (and often with NO footing as they are up off the ground topping/limbing a tree) and cutting into wood with unknown grain pattern and hitting unknown foreign objects. That doesn't even scratch the number of people hurt by falling trees/limbs/logs or who fall out of trees while not cutting the wood. Jointers rank a distant second as a lot of people hook their pinky over the trailing edge of the board to push and inadvertently "joint" their pinky, usually amputating the pinky down to the first knuckle (PIP joint.) Tablesaws rank third and it is usually a careless cabinetmaker carpenter who takes all of the guards, splitters, and such off their saw and brushes a finger past the blade after ripping a bunch of pieces in a row and getting careless. The supposedly most "dangerous" of the woodworking tools, the shaper and the radial arm saw, barely register for injuries. Maybe that is because few use them, or because those that still do are smart enough to do so carefully as they probably have used such equipment for decades and respect it, while some chemically impaired goofball just released from the clink and now working construction cuts the end of his finger off on a cheapo jobsite tablesaw.

[Keith Hankins]

Sheesh....

348491

[Rich Riddle]

I own the Bosch REAXX and would give it an overall A-/B+ grade. Between the two portable saws, it's the best of the two. A friend owns the portable SawStop and wishes he had the Bosch. I have about 5 spare cartridges just in case obtaining them gets to be a problem.