Disabled Veteran dreaming of affording a Laser engraver

[Edward Henry]

Hi folks, I am dreaming of getting a Laser engraver. Researched Trotec, Epilog, Glowforge and even Chinese K40 cheapo. The cheap is out as they only do black and white, I wish to do images in acrylics and glass to edge light. I liked the Epilog Helix 50 watt though I think 60 would be more versatile. Sadly they cost more than I can finance right now so even though they are 2-3times slower I might have to start with a Zing system.

I am hoping I can learn to make items to sell that would net me an extra $500-$1000 a month plus pay for the Laser over time and material expenses, is this unreasonable for someone with no knowledge of the equipment and software? I hope to find a class on Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator, Corel Draw, and 3D software for when I get a 3D printer some day.

I am an amateur astrophotographer so I thought I would start with edgelit acrylic signs from Astronomy images taken by the amateur community so they have a nice memento of their best images. Here is a sample done on an Epilog Helix 50 watt. Acrylic and aluminum for like custom business card or something. I also thought to us the laser to lightly etch images on wood to then burn the details by hand. I currently draw the image 2-3 times between tracing to wood and burning so thought the laser could do my outlines.

I guess I am wondering if this dream is a waste of time, what equipment you all suggest to accomplish my dream, info on operating costs, Any disabled Veterans that can tell me how this would effect my VA disability and SSDI (my only current income), how do you decide on price for your product, how do you handle taxes and such? And where is best place to learn the software (online or a graphics arts school)?

Any tips, advice information will be helpful.

[Keith Downing]

Hi folks, I am dreaming of getting a Laser engraver. Researched Trotec, Epilog, Glowforge and even Chinese K40 cheapo. The cheap is out as they only do black and white, I wish to do images in acrylics and glass to edge light. I liked the Epilog Helix 50 watt though I think 60 would be more versatile. Sadly they cost more than I can finance right now so even though they are 2-3times slower I might have to start with a Zing system.

I am hoping I can learn to make items to sell that would net me an extra $500-$1000 a month plus pay for the Laser over time and material expenses, is this unreasonable for someone with no knowledge of the equipment and software? I hope to find a class on Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator, Corel Draw, and 3D software for when I get a 3D printer some day.

I am an amateur astrophotographer so I thought I would start with edgelit acrylic signs from Astronomy images taken by the amateur community so they have a nice memento of their best images. Here is a sample done on an Epilog Helix 50 watt. Acrylic and aluminum for like custom business card or something. I also thought to us the laser to lightly etch images on wood to then burn the details by hand. I currently draw the image 2-3 times between tracing to wood and burning so thought the laser could do my outlines.

I guess I am wondering if this dream is a waste of time, what equipment you all suggest to accomplish my dream, info on operating costs, Any disabled Veterans that can tell me how this would effect my VA disability and SSDI (my only current income), how do you decide on price for your product, how do you handle taxes and such? And where is best place to learn the software (online or a graphics arts school)?

Any tips, advice information will be helpful.

Hello Edward, and welcome to Sawmill Creek.

To be completely frank addressing your questions, in summary, this is a tough business to get into if you have a need to have immediate income and pay off a financed machine. Plus, there is a learning curve on the graphic design software if you don't have any real experience there already. It takes time and a lot of patience to learn all these tools (including the laser) and to build a business.

That said, it is something I have really enjoyed and I don't regret it at all. My advice would be: read all you can (sawmillcreek is a great place to start), learn everything you can, and then put together some spreadsheets based on your personal finances, and put together a business plan. Then make an honest assement of whether or not it is something you can afford to do right now.

Also, have you looked at the US companies that import the Chinese lasers? The main ones mentioned here often are Rabbit and Boss. These companies add some value to the process along with a small markup. But most importantly, they give you a warranty and the basic help getting your machine setup and running correctly starting out. The chinese machines aren't anywhere near the speed of the top US manufactured machines, but they are a pretty good compromise IMHO if price is a driving factor in your decision.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

[Keith Downing]

I will also add, that it might help if you add your location to your profile as we have members here all over the world and some in your area might be able to add additional insight to the market in your region.

[Scott Marquez]

Edward,
Welcome to the forum, I would recommend spending hours researching this forum, there is a huge amount of information.
The easiest part of creating a finished project is the Laser part. I suggest learning Corel draw and finding a local Tech shop with a laser to cut or engrave your job. The experience you gain by doing this will help you learn the program and what it takes to use the laser.
Good luck,
Scott

[Edward Henry]

I have some personal debt to pay off before this starts to be a reality, during that time I plan to try online graphic arts courses. The income desire is not an immediate need, it is to have extra money for trips, fun, and entertainment with out touching my current income.

[Doug Fisher]

Search for a maker space or fablab or fabrication lab near you. These are community spaces for "makers" to gather. Google is your friend. Join for a nominal fee and learn on their machine. It will be a wise investment and you will quickly get a feel for whether this suits you or not. Local vocational/technical colleges probably also offer the classes you mention and access to a laser. Go with a city/county/state run school versus a private rip-off school. They list their classes online.

Go talk to the people at your local SBA office. They have programs for veterans. You can also talk to a SCORE person (service corps of retired executives?).

[Edward Henry]

Thank You.

[Doug Fisher]

I meant to add that a surprising number of public libraries in larger metro areas are offering 3D printers and laser cutters. I can't imagine the support nightmare this must be and the headaches involved so I don't know how long before libraries say, "nice concept but..."

[Doug Fisher]

One more thing, there is no reason to pay to learn a major software program like Photoshop, Corel or Illustrator. There are tons of free tutorials on Youtube. You have to learn to separate the good from the bad but everything is covered by one video or another.

[Kev Williams]

My http://www.engraver1.com/gifs/2cents.gif

People will buy things they need, because they need them.
People will buy things they want, because they want them.

--Unless the need to buy something arises first...

If you market something people simply want, you'll have to search for customers.
--Market something they need, the customers will search YOU out.
:)

[John Lifer]

Edward, I'll put my penny in as I don't have two cents of experience with a laser.. having said that, I'm all in on one. I'm importing a chinese built and hopefully will have here by mid December if customs doesn't take too long.

Having said that, I would for sure check around in Springfield for a maker's space. I'm in the springdale- Fayetteville area and the Fayetteville chamber of commerce has just opened one up here. No laser yet, but a bunch of 3d printers and stuff for schools to use. It will still be 6months or so till they really get going.

And if you have free time, YouTube is you friend. Go watch a bunch of vids an They will teach you coreldraw. I looked into local tech and classes and found one......who taught by online class. Go figure! For the cost of the class I bought great refurbished computer,new monitor and Corel software.

Once I get thing up and running next year, wow,almost 2017 guys! I'll let you know and you can take a short day trip to Arkansas if you want. Pm me if you would So i won't forget.

[Bill George]

Don't buy the machine and I recommend one with US support, until you learn Corel Draw and do a lot more research. The machine its self is one learning curve, the graphics design is another and of course the marketing. It seems Everyone is buying a laser engraver, its you and your talent that makes it work. This Forum is the Best place to research, read and learn. So many talented people.

[Bruce Clumpner]

Second the benefits of a maker space... these shops let you play with the equipment while developing your skills and products at a reasonable price... Most seem to be 24/7 operations so plenty of laser time available if you want. Check it out in your area...

[Tim Bateson]

Overlooked by 99.9% of us when we got started... including me, is the Service Business. Work your artsy stuff, after all that seems to be your main interest. Also consider the cost of inventory and the storage of other inventory. Whats trending, what' going to gather dust on your shelves. I have a couple core items I make & sell, but 90% of my business is Service related. I have very little inventory to track & keep current. Industry, Corporations, Individuals (I try to discourage this) bring me their products & items to engrave. Most drop off and pickup, or I ship at their expense.

[Gary Hair]

Overlooked by 99.9% of us when we got started... including me, is the Service Business. Work your artsy stuff, after all that seems to be your main interest. Also consider the cost of inventory and the storage of other inventory. Whats trending, what' going to gather dust on your shelves. I have a couple core items I make & sell, but 90% of my business is Service related. I have very little inventory to track & keep current. Industry, Corporations, Individuals (I try to discourage this) bring me their products & items to engrave. Most drop off and pickup, or I ship at their expense.

Best advice possible! I have less than $500 inventory and my cost of goods sold is less than 1%. I won't tell you my exact revenue, but it's well into 6 figures.

[Mike Null]

I'm with Tim and Gary. My inventory is only slightly north of $1000. I am home based and I specialize in engraving services. I do not and have not made anything on speculation. I also specialize in commercial work as I dread retail customers. I started with a Universal laser and now use a Trotec. At least half of my business is from processes other than laser engraving.

A web site is essential to your success.

I second YouTube as a teacher. There is none better.

If you can't find anybody close to you and want to spend a day with me we can schedule that after the first of the year. I'm about 4 hours away.

[Tim Bateson]

...how do you decide on price for your product...
Check out the local market for similar prices. This will vary widely from market to market.


...how do you handle taxes and such?...
Taxes - who pays taxes???? Actually I pay Ohio sales tax every 6 months. For Federal - The business goes on my individual tax return, even though I'm an LLC.

[Edward Henry]

My http://www.engraver1.com/gifs/2cents.gif

People will buy things they need, because they need them.
People will buy things they want, because they want them.

--Unless the need to buy something arises first...

If you market something people simply want, you'll have to search for customers.
--Market something they need, the customers will search YOU out.
:)

Now I just need to find what they want that I can learn to supply.

[Gary Hair]

Now I just need to find what they want that I can learn to supply.

That is the challenge. When you figure it out though, you will be rewarded!

[Edward Henry]

No Maker places closer than 2.5 - 3 hours from me, closest we have in Springfield is 417-DIY but that is automotive and machine shop stuff not Wood working, 3D printers, and Laser engraver like I need/desire.

[Keith Outten]

My 2 cents
If I was starting over today with a goal of bringing in additional income my first machine would be a CNC Router.
My second machine would be a laser engraver.

It is so much easier to produce projects with a higher profit margin with a CNC Router then it is with a laser engraver, at least it has been for me. A CNC Router will make it much easier to afford a higher quality Laser when the time comes to purchase because of its income producing capability.

Honestly with the cost to purchase woodworking machines these days I would only have three primary machines:
1. CNC Router (small CAMaster Stinger)
2. Laser Engraver (Trotec Speedy 300)
3. A very high end Band Saw

[Edward Henry]

I have also considered contacting local car dealerships and the like to offer making Employee of the month or Salesman of the month/year type awards.

[Edward Henry]

Check out the local market for similar prices. This will vary widely from market to market.


Taxes - who pays taxes???? Actually I pay Ohio sales tax every 6 months. For Federal - The business goes on my individual tax return, even though I'm an LLC.

Yet another aspect to figure out Taxes, business license, how will it effect my VA disability and SSDI income.....

[Edward Henry]

I'm with Tim and Gary. My inventory is only slightly north of $1000. I am home based and I specialize in engraving services. I do not and have not made anything on speculation. I also specialize in commercial work as I dread retail customers. I started with a Universal laser and now use a Trotec. At least half of my business is from processes other than laser engraving.

A web site is essential to your success.

I second YouTube as a teacher. There is none better.

If you can't find anybody close to you and want to spend a day with me we can schedule that after the first of the year. I'm about 4 hours away.

Thanks for the offer I might take you up on it. Going to look for local services that offer engraving and see what I can learn. I just want to keep myself busy have fun and make a little spending cash for trips, Maybe my first cruise or something. But also enough funds extra to pay operating costs like taxes equipment and such.

[Edward Henry]

My 2 cents
If I was starting over today with a goal of bringing in additional income my first machine would be a CNC Router.
My second machine would be a laser engraver.

It is so much easier to produce projects with a higher profit margin with a CNC Router then it is with a laser engraver, at least it has been for me. A CNC Router will make it much easier to afford a higher quality Laser when the time comes to purchase because of its income producing capability.

Honestly with the cost to purchase woodworking machines these days I would only have three primary machines:
1. CNC Router (small CAMaster Stinger)
2. Laser Engraver (Trotec Speedy 300)
3. A very high end Band Saw

I want a CNC eventually, I was thinking order of purchased items would be.
1. wood shop tools Table saw, drill press, jointer, etc.
2. Laser Engraver/cutter Epilog or Trotec or any that can etch in 256 greyscale or better
3. 3D Printer Formlabs Form 2 resin based.
4. CNC router mostly wood (cane a CNC do bother wood and metal)? If unlimited money I would wand a 5 axis CNC but that won't happen lol.

[Lawrence Richards]

Edward, I was going to send you this over PM (and I'm still happy to converse that way too!) but some of this information might help others out there too so I'll make it public. My name is Lawrence Richards and I just started the a woodworking business here on Whidbey Island where I do CNC and laser work.

I was a woodworker who had made shadow boxes/flag cases/etc during my 20 years in the AF. I'm a service disabled vet and though I knew there was a path to assistance, 18 months ago I had no clue how to get on this path. I'm still working through a few of the "systems" but hope I can point you (and anyone in your situation) in the right direction. Some of this assistance is privately funded and some is publicly funded- I've used a combination of both to educate and prepare me for my business.

1. The Entrepreneurship Bootcamp for Veterans with Disabilities - this program CHANGED MY LIFE. It consists of a 30 day online course teaching the basics of starting a business, a 10 day in-house program (I went to UCONN school of business and they pay for airfare, food etc) where you get a little "mini MBA", and a one year mentorship program which included instruction and assistance in writing my business plan, elevator pitches etc. I cannot overstate how awesome this program is. It is available to post-911 service disabled Vets of all ranges of disability and more info can be found by googling "entrepreneurship bootcamp for veterans with disablilities"

2. The VA has a program called Vocational Rehabilitation which has a self employment track. I am in phase three of this track and have had some equipment/training etc provided to assist me in reducing my capital equipment purchases and leases. I HIGHLY encourage you to both attend EBV first and to contact me personally as it is a very tough program to get on and there are many pitfalls which would seem innocent but would exclude you from this track. (I almost messed up several times in the beginning but luckily have good mentors who helped me navigate the process) It's the VA though... so understand that this process is not quick (and that is an understatement) Google VA Vocational Rehabilitation to learn more.

3. There are other programs specifically set up to assist service-disabled-vets start and run businesses including specific centers run by the Small Business Administration for Veterans called VBOCs -They can be found in several locations around the US and google Veteran VBOC for more info.

Most importantly are the other entrepreneurs, businessowners, mentors and benefactors that want to help men and women start businesses. Some of these folks have specific groups of people that they tailor their assistance to and veterans are definitely one of these groups. This creates a network which I can only describe as more like the brotherhood I experienced in the military than anything I have seen since.

PM me and I'm happy to share what I can

Lawrence

[Doug Fisher]

>>Yet another aspect to figure out Taxes, business license,<<

Your library will most likely have (or you can buy from Amazon) books from NOLO on starting a new business plus starting your own LLC. "Tax Savvy For Small Business" is where I would start and available in most libraries. Then read a couple of NOLO's books by Anthony Mancuso - "Form Your Own Limited Liability Company" and then maybe "Guide to Operating Your Limited Liability Company." Most all libraries have these (search carefully because there are a lot of similarly titled books by Mancuso). These are pretty fast to read and will get you up to speed. They update/reissue them almost every year. Not much changes but you will want to make an effort to get the most recent copy your library offers when searching the library catalog. With the knowledge in these books that you can borrow from the library for free, you should be able to get your business/LLC up and running correctly from a legal and accounting standpoint for very little money. As you grow you will probably need to seek the advice of an accountant but you will be very far ahead by having a good base of knowledge. This will also help keep your accounting and legal fees down since they don't need to start at ground zero on advising you.

[Edward Henry]

Edward, I was going to send you this over PM (and I'm still happy to converse that way too!) but some of this information might help others out there too so I'll make it public. My name is Lawrence Richards and I just started the a woodworking business here on Whidbey Island where I do CNC and laser work.

I was a woodworker who had made shadow boxes/flag cases/etc during my 20 years in the AF. I'm a service disabled vet and though I knew there was a path to assistance, 18 months ago I had no clue how to get on this path. I'm still working through a few of the "systems" but hope I can point you (and anyone in your situation) in the right direction. Some of this assistance is privately funded and some is publicly funded- I've used a combination of both to educate and prepare me for my business.

1. The Entrepreneurship Bootcamp for Veterans with Disabilities - this program CHANGED MY LIFE. It consists of a 30 day online course teaching the basics of starting a business, a 10 day in-house program (I went to UCONN school of business and they pay for airfare, food etc) where you get a little "mini MBA", and a one year mentorship program which included instruction and assistance in writing my business plan, elevator pitches etc. I cannot overstate how awesome this program is. It is available to post-911 service disabled Vets of all ranges of disability and more info can be found by googling "entrepreneurship bootcamp for veterans with disabilities"

2. The VA has a program called Vocational Rehabilitation which has a self employment track. I am in phase three of this track and have had some equipment/training etc provided to assist me in reducing my capital equipment purchases and leases. I HIGHLY encourage you to both attend EBV first and to contact me personally as it is a very tough program to get on and there are many pitfalls which would seem innocent but would exclude you from this track. (I almost messed up several times in the beginning but luckily have good mentors who helped me navigate the process) It's the VA though... so understand that this process is not quick (and that is an understatement) Google VA Vocational Rehabilitation to learn more.

3. There are other programs specifically set up to assist service-disabled-vets start and run businesses including specific centers run by the Small Business Administration for Veterans called VBOCs -They can be found in several locations around the US and google Veteran VBOC for more info.

Most importantly are the other entrepreneurs, business owners, mentors and benefactors that want to help men and women start businesses. Some of these folks have specific groups of people that they tailor their assistance to and veterans are definitely one of these groups. This creates a network which I can only describe as more like the brotherhood I experienced in the military than anything I have seen since.

PM me and I'm happy to share what I can

Lawrence

Lawrence Thank you for this information it offers me a starting point. I do have a couple issues that may be a hindrance but I can contact them to find out. 1. I AM a 100% Disabled Veteran but only Service Connected NOT Combat related and I have found a lot of programs are Limited to Combat Veterans only (Found out when I was trying to Learn Scuba Diving), and 2. I have a Service Dog.

[Edward Henry]

Any suggestions on CNC routers to look at? I seen 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and even 6 axis how do you determine what you need now or for future growth? wood cnc vs metal? I mainly desire wood working but can see a metal use for Telescope parts.
I liked the Pocket CNC 5 axis demo I saw but it is limited in size what is a good size work surface for most Hobby tasks?