A couple of swap meet woodies for rehab?

[joel cervera]

So I picked up a couple wooden body planes at the swap meet this weekend. The first is 19 inches long. So it's a long try or jointer? The condition and patina on this one is very pleasing. There are no cracks on this one to be found. And it has a nice English ( i think )made blade and cap. This one is a bit of a Frankenstein with respect to the handle. The original was replaced with a donor from another plane and the handle itself is solid . The fitting of the handle into the plane is very nicely.. But the two screws that originally held it in place are no longer doing her job. I believe that the best thing to do would be to glue or epoxy in the handle. If epoxy is used I could tinted very dark so it would match the wood closely. But I have a few questions on this one.






should I use glue or epoxy to sattatch the handle? or does it matter which?
After doing the handle part in should I put the two screws back in their locations since they are part of the planes history?
Does the mouth look like it's capable of doing fine work? or would his need some work on the mouth to pull fine shavings
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq139/malix/IMG_3342.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq139/malix/IMG_3343.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq139/malix/IMG_3346_1.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq139/malix/IMG_3348.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq139/malix/IMG_3350.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq139/malix/IMG_3352.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq139/malix/IMG_3353.jpg2nd one is a small smoother (ubiquitous I know)


Here is the smooth plane. seems like the mouth aint tight enough. so maybe add a new sole and tighten the mouth or graft in some wood to the front of the mouth..
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq139/malix/IMG_3354.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq139/malix/IMG_3357.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq139/malix/IMG_3356.jpg

So what do you guys think?

p.s.

I have a mess of stanleys I have fettled but been curious to try some wood bodies.. Are these good candidates?

Thanks.

[Bill Houghton]

The handle: glue in a cross-grain plug (not a dowel) where the screws go and re-drill for new holes. If you're going to use glue also, use something reversible, like hide glue, so future repairs can be made without you, or the future owner, turning the very air navy blue with curses as you (or the future owner) clean out all the epoxy used to glue it before.

Gluing on a sole and putting a patch in front of the mouth are both historically correct practices. Only you can decide which is easier in your case.

Generally nice looking planes, those two.

[Stewie Simpson]

Both woodies have double irons. You don't require an overly tight mouth to control tear-out.

[John Vernier]

That try plane has some features which suggest it could be quite old. The tote offset to the right side is a style which was going away by 1800. The iron, with the round-topped Newbould cap iron, also suggests a very early 19th century date, if not earlier.

[Bill Houghton]

I was going to say: that jointer could sure use a strike button. The top of the front looks like it was attacked by a three-year-old with a hammer.

[Steve Voigt]

That try plane has some features which suggest it could be quite old. The tote offset to the right side is a style which was going away by 1800. The iron, with the round-topped Newbould cap iron, also suggests a very early 19th century date, if not earlier.

I think John is quite likely right. Other factors that suggest great age are the slot for the cap iron, which was clearly chopped by hand, and the cap iron itself, which looks like it might be wrought iron, and definitely was forged (the threaded hole was punched, not drilled, before tapping).

It's also possible that it's a particularly nice craftsman-made plane, rather than commercially-made. The handle mortise is quite unusual (though that may also be a modification). And the stock is rift-sawn and closer to flatsawn than to QS, which is a little unusal in a commercial plane.

It looks like the wedge fingers have been chopped off, but the plane looks like it is close to full height, so I don't see why that would've been done. You may want to make a new wedge if you intend to use the plane.

The mouth is not large at all, but it's interesting, the iron has quite a bit of camber. I think this plane was used as a fore (i.e roughing) plane; it is the right size.

Smoother looks good, too. I certainly would not mess with the mouths of either plane; there is no need to patch them. Nice score!

[Glen Canaday]

I haven't got much to add save that my wooden fore planes need more help than yours does. One needs a new iron (the Moulson is down to the slot) and the other needs a mouth gusset added..that isn't marble. Yes, that one has a gusset made of marble, and no it is not my fault.

Seeing yours in such great shape makes me want to do the work to renovate my few.

[Shawn Pixley]

That try plane has some features which suggest it could be quite old. The tote offset to the right side is a style which was going away by 1800. The iron, with the round-topped Newbould cap iron, also suggests a very early 19th century date, if not earlier.

I've never seen that offset tote.

[steven c newman]

347538
A few I have had through the shop..
347539
Been awhile since an all wood jack plane has been through, though..
347540
Had to repair a couple cracks on this one..

[george wilson]

Do NOT,repeat DO NOT use EPOXY on that saw!! It will not be possible to repair the saw if the epoxy eventually cracks right along the glue line. Glue it with a reversible glue like hide glue. Hide glue is perfectly strong enough,and can be gotten loose if you ever need to.

Newbould was an 18th. C. maker. The cap iron looks very early. The plane blade may not be original to it. But,the markings on the blade are interesting. I'm not sure if the wedge is original to the plane either. IT NEEDS TO BE STUDIED!!!!

The offset handle is a very early indicator too. We made our planes with offset handles when I was tool maker in Williamsburg. The plane is most unusual,and WORTHY of being CAREFULLY preserved for study. To tell the truth,I would do NOTHING to it.
i'd leave the handle off of it and contact Colonial Williamsburg. 1-757-229-1000. Ask for the curator of tools and see about him examining the plane. His name is Eric Goldstein. He is very personable. Tell him I sent you. Send him some pictures. Your plane is some kind of a rare transitional model that I have not seen before. The iron is interesting,too.

IT WOULD BE VERY USEFUL TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION.

[joel cervera]

Thanks for all the replies.

So First things first. I'll Do as George Said and send off some photos to see if the plane is of any interest to tool historians. Tho I would be pleasantly surprised if it does warrant the interest. To answer George's question, I am located in northern California. Not known for having a plethora of good quality antique tools.. I am in no rush to put these to use so I will make sure to gather what info I can. and make sure to preserve the history of the tool if it goes back into use.

an I'll make sure to use hide glue if',n I do ever glue that handle in..

I'll be sure to post if any new info comes to light.

Thanks fellas

[Bill Houghton]

I haven't got much to add save that my wooden fore planes need more help than yours does. One needs a new iron (the Moulson is down to the slot) and the other needs a mouth gusset added..that isn't marble. Yes, that one has a gusset made of marble, and no it is not my fault.

Seeing yours in such great shape makes me want to do the work to renovate my few.
Used by an early yuppie woodworker?

[Glen Canaday]

Used by an early yuppie woodworker?

More like by a recent shelf-dweller. It also used to have green felt glued to the sole ;)

[Stewie Simpson]

Glen; that marble infill is worth posting a photo.

[Stewie Simpson]

I have used natural bone as an infill material.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/goldenberg%20france%20hand%20plane/DSC_0335_zps3dff980c.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/goldenberg%20france%20hand%20plane/DSC_0335_zps3dff980c.jpg.html)

[Patrick Chase]

Both woodies have double irons. You don't require an overly tight mouth to control tear-out.

This is exactly what I was about to post. I'd give it a go with the mouth as-is, as Stewie suggests.

[george wilson]

The roughly chiseled bottom of the handle mortise is reminiscent of the philosophy of 18th. C. furniture making: If it doesn't show,spend minimal time on it. Later planes had their mortises made of a series of overlapping holes probably made on machinery,but with early type center augers. After drilling out as much as possible,the mortise was squared up on the ends and cleaned on the sides by hand. Also,the mortise slanted backwards on its rear end,and slanted forwards on the front end. The handle fit these angles. This simple but clever angling made it impossible to jerk the handle out of the mortise while pushing the plane. It had to be pulled out backwards if the glue failed. These later mortises were not very crude looking like your earlier looking plane. That feature would be well worth showing to tool curators. I still recommend Colonial Williamsburg. I was the Master Tool and Instrument Maker there for many years,and know the people there very well. Eric is quite a friendly person,and I know he'd like to examine your plane.

Whoever repaired your plane's handle failed to put that feature on the rear end of the handle extension,using a screw instead to hold the handle down.They did do a careful job of mating a locking joint to the back of the handle. The front does show a MUCH steeper angle than later planes have. Too bad the original rear end of the handle isn't there.

[Glen Canaday]

Glen; that marble infill is worth posting a photo.

I'll get one up as soon as I can. Posting pics in this forum software from a phone is next to impossible.