Disston and Toland saw

[brian zawatsky]

Kicking around some antique shops today with my wife and scored. Picked up an 18" backsaw with a steel spine, 3 flush screws with split nuts and no medallion. Spine is stamped Disston and Toland. From what little info I could find online it's a very rare stamp that dates to 1843-1845 and precedes Henry's founding of his own venture.

Sorry, I have to wait till tomorrow to post pics. Staying in a hotel this evening and the saw is in the trunk.

Anyone ever seen such a stamp? Any other info floating around out there? You out there, Pete?

[Rob Paul]

some info on Disston & Tolland at wkfinetools;
http://hus-saws1.wkfinetools.com/Disston/history/04-H-earlyDays-Bickley.asp

[brian zawatsky]

Thanks Rob. All the info I was able to find came from the wkfinetools site. Doesn't seem to be anything else out there, except to say that it is a super rare saw.

[Jim Koepke]

some info on Disston & Tolland at wkfinetools;
http://hus-saws1.wkfinetools.com/Disston/history/04-H-earlyDays-Bickley.asp

Interesting:


The saw shown below is from the collection of Philip W. Baker. It is one of very few, most likely two, existing saws made by Disston and Tolland.

Looks like there are now three...

jtk

[Jerry Olexa]

Brian,you did well.....

[Glen Canaday]

And then there were three. Someone might want to give Phil a call if they haven't already.

[brian zawatsky]

Here are some pics, as promised.

Someone was using this saw in a cheap-o 1940's ish miter box, and I would presume that person is the one who cut the round cheeks on the handle flat.

Even considering this egregious act of vandalism, it's still pretty sweet. The plate is in surprisingly good shape for such an old saw.

[Pete Taran]

It's an early saw for sure. I picked one up about 10 years ago while also antiquing in PA. The earliest Disston saws did not have any medallion announcing who made them, just split nuts and a blade or spine stamp. If you find a saw like this, it's definitely pre 1850.

As for how rare, that's something I want to comment on. Rarity is always inflated. I have thought about it quite a bit, as I'm in a position to see quite a bit of rare stuff come my way for either appraisal or sale. I have a theory that there is some element of hubris in rarity declarations. Condition is another that fits into the same category among tool collectors. You hear stuff like, "best I've ever had" or "never see a better one". There is a pretty prominent tool dealer that has an early backsaw on his website claiming "It is the only example known and condition is fantastic" or something like that. I have a nearly identical saw that is in much better shape than the one for sale. Since his was marked at $2600, does that make mine worth $5000?

Another example is the Panther Head saw made down in Cincinnati. Someone wrote an article in the Gristmill about 15 years ago saying that only 10 or 15 were ever made. Really? How do you know, were you alive in 1890? I've personally handled at least 20 since. There are probably several hundred out there. What this does is instantly convey a hyper sense of rarity, deserved or not, and also creates an instant market which is typically the goal of the statement in the first place. Some folks go more out of their way to promote this type of hyperbole than others. At some point, I came up with the following descriptors to describe how rare saws are:

Common: D8s, D23s
Uncommon, D12s
Scarce: #8, half back saw, #77 no set saw, #43 combination saw
Rare: Hiram Smith Combination saw, Disston & Toland Backsaw, Bat Wing Handled Backsaws

My main point is if you think something is rare, it might be, but there are likely plenty of example out there, you just don't know about them.

In the end, Brian's saw is a nice find. It's a shame some early saw doctor had to mung up the handle. Love seeing early stuff like this!

Pete

[brian zawatsky]

Thanks for weighing in Pete. Your expertise is always welcomed, and appreciated.

I thought the author's claim as to the rarity of the saw had to be somewhat hyperbolic; only 2 known examples? Really? While it would be nice, it's unrealistic.

[Phil Mueller]

Pete, do you mean to tell me that when the description on that auction site says "RARE" it may not be so?!!!

[brian zawatsky]

Pete, do you mean to tell me that when the description on that auction site says "RARE" it may not not be so?!!!

Hahaha! I love it when sellers on there describe a D8 as a "rare" and exceptional saw. They are so common in the northeast part of the country that I pass them up in the wild.

[Glen Canaday]

I don't pass up D8s. As a result, I have a ton of them.

But I picked up an Atkins 51 thumbhole thinking it was a D8, after I convinced the owner it was a D8. Though it was a garage sale and I paid $5 for it, which is what he had it marked at anyway.

[brian zawatsky]

That's a nice pick up Glen. You don't see too many of those around.