Cutting tenons a diifferent way...

[steven c newman]

Maybe I am doing this in the wrong order?
347320
Because I merely make a shoulder cut with that little saw. Then a few whacks on a chisel to pop the waste off
347320
Rotate and repeat. Then
347321
Clean up with a small shoulder plane. System even works for "Problem Child" tenons..
347322
Always one like this? Well, we have ways..
347323
And, I make sure that ugly spot is on the inside, out of sight, too.

Another way I am working backwards....I cut the tenons first, and use them to size the other part of the joint...
347324
Then a little chisel work until I get a slip fit.....seems to work for these type of things..
347325
But then again, maybe I just work backwards....:rolleyes:

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Stephen

A couple of observations ..

Importantly, if splitting works for you, then do it (I have used this at times with tenons, but more so with rebates). Much quicker than sawing (or planing). However, the wood I work is interlocked and the grain runs everywhere, so this is not something I can do much. (sigh).

I cannot envisage cutting the tenons first if this means if there is a risk that they end up undersize (owing to splitting more than anticipated). The tenon thickness needs to fit the mortice chisels I have. For this reason I prefer the security of sawing tenon cheeks. It makes fitting the two parts more predictable.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

I mainly use just White oak, Walnut ( what was shown above),Cherry, and pine/poplar. never seem to get enough maple to work with in the shop...

have tried mortises first more than once.....and regretted it each time. ALWAYS wound up with an undersized tenon.

Tenon first, I can undersize the mortise, and then adjust sizes as needed. Can always take away a sliver or two, but never put one back.....

Ever wind up with a knot IN the tenon layout? Sometimes, it just happens, and I merely deal with it as needed.

That "shoulder plane"? I use it both for the shoulders, and to flatten the faces of the tenons. I split off close to the lines, and leave a hair behind for the plane to trim. Doesn't seem to matter that the Shoulder plane is over 100 yrs old, as long as it is sharp. Was a bit pricey, though...cost me a whopping $10.....

[Wayne Lomman]

I'm with you and interlocked grain, Derek. I rarely get away from it. Cheers

[Warren Mickley]

When making a tenon for timber framing, like 6X6 or 8X8 we usually saw the shoulder and split of the waste, finishing up with a slick. However for cabinet sized tenons it is faster to saw the tenon.

It doesn't matter whether the mortise is made first or the tenon. The gauge is set to the width of the chisel and used to mark both the stile and the rail. Since both tenon and mortise are made to the gauge lines, it doesn't matter which is done first. It is a lot of extra work to make a mortise that is not the width of a mortise chisel.

In laying out, is helpful to avoid joints where there are knots, both for ease of execution and strength and integrity of the finished joint.

[Glen Canaday]

I've seen both ways and done them both.

I usually do the mortise first since it's harder work. It's a bit like holding off on dessert until after ;)

Though now that I have a much nicer tenon cutting saw, when the weather warms up again..in..6 more months...I'll saw the cheeks more often.

[steven c newman]

For those of us without the perfect handsaw to make those cheek cuts, the shallow shoulder cuts are easier to do. Afraid that even MY perfect rip saw is a bit too large for such jobs....
347329
Less time I spend holding a saw's handle with these hands on mine, the better the hands feel....Uncle Arthur has the hands. Have had a couple Gents saws in the shop....hands didn't like the handles. If a tool hurts just to use it, it is soon gone from the shop.
As for the knots.....I have to use what wood I have on hand. I try to avoid the worst of the defects, sometimes I just can't. But, I can work around the ones I have to keep.

My marking gauge has only a single pin.....meh, it does work. I do size things, but I size the chisel according to the tenon I just cut. I use the tenon and a pencil to mark a line around. I then stay inside those lines. I can also see where the tenon will go, and make sure it is where I want it to go.....sometimes the two want to be different about it. The other "fly in the ointment" I run into..
347330
Is when an apron meets a leg at an angle. Like for this table, the legs splay out at about 5 degrees
347331
It is a bit hard for me to control a saw cut and stop in the right spots. Have had too many times where I'd over cut one side or the other...

Mortise work isn't all that hard to do...with a Mortise chisel...
347332
Old habits?

[James Pallas]

When making a tenon for timber framing, like 6X6 or 8X8 we usually saw the shoulder and split of the waste, finishing up with a slick. However for cabinet sized tenons it is faster to saw the tenon.

It doesn't matter whether the mortise is made first or the tenon. The gauge is set to the width of the chisel and used to mark both the stile and the rail. Since both tenon and mortise are made to the gauge lines, it doesn't matter which is done first. It is a lot of extra work to make a mortise that is not the width of a mortise chisel.

In laying out, is helpful to avoid joints where there are knots, both for ease of execution and strength and integrity of the finished joint.
Great answer Warren. I'm no expert like yourself. I just do whichever I have the tools on the bench at the time. They fit most of the time. But everyone falters sometimes.
Jim