A new player in the steel spined 14" bandsaw game

[Van Huskey]

Grizzly is going to release a new 14" steel bandsaw. While they have been quiet on this front for a while letting their G0457/G0778 soldier on and still selling what must be a ton of their fleshed out high value cast clone line they seem poised to give the other big players in this niche (namely Rikon and Laguna) a run for their money.

The new Grizzly is the G0817 and is a 14" steel spined saw which I call a square saw, seeing it has 14" of resaw. (the term sqaure is stolen from the auto industry and used to describe a engine whose bore and stroke are equal). It is 76" tall which is garage door friendly even on a pallet and the shipping weight is 388 pounds, while I don't have the actual saw weight but given how bandsaws are generally crated I would GUESS the saw weight is in the 330-350 pound range. It has 2hp (wireable for 120/240), which is a little under what I prefer per inch of resaw it should be fine for most tall resawing and drops it right in the middle of the class in terms of hp per resaw inch. 21 3/4" x 16 1/2 inch table at 37" from the floor, maybe a touch high for heavy resawing but that depends on the users height and preference as much as anything, some people hate low BS tables. It also has a foot brake.

Now the "important" part, it will have an introductory price of $1295 so add in residential liftgate and it shoud be in your garage for roughly $1450. This lands it right in the middle of a crowded field. It also puts it in direct competion with the 513 series but time and time again Grizzly has shown it doesn't mind stepping on its own price point toes. I have long held the 513 series may hold the best bought new value propositon for the hobby woodworker so the 817 has some pretty big shoes to fill. That said the 14" steel saw market appears to be a thriving one.

As always I am keen to not only see one of these but actually run one. In the past new Grizzly models are the toughest thing for me to powered hands on with when they are new. I spend hours each year in their showrooms (sad to see the Muncy showroom go since there was family near there and it made the trip from DC or NYC worth the trip) but I really like to make sawdust with a saw. Most of the other brands are carried by a serious local dealer that doesn;t mind me coming in with a bag of instruments and making some sawdust in the back workshop. So what I am getting at is when someone gets one of these if they are willing to let me come by let me know. I travel all over the US regularly and if you draw a box from Miami to Boston to Seattle to San Diego and back to Miami thats where I roam. I'll pay for the pizza and beer or soft drinks if you prefer or maybe just bring you a blade since I prefer to have a fresh blade that I know well so I can be objective. If you need references I can provide Creeker's names who can verify I didn't break their saw nor cause any police call level debachery while at their home... :o

[Howard Pollack]

When you get a chance to try one I'd be very curious to hear your sense of the saw in comparison to the 513 with cast iron wheels.
-Howard

[Van Huskey]

At this point there is no ETA on them being in stock and after that a nice Creeker will have to buy and and invite me over, otherwise it will only be a visual inspection at one of their showrooms. However, I don't foresee a situation where I recommend it over the upper half of the 513 series except if one need the 2 extra inches of resaw or needs a slightly smaller footprint. My main interest is where it sits in within the 14" hierarchy. Over the last 10 years we have seen a lot of new saws in the 14/15" steel spined class and have them running from under 1K to just under 3K.

Again, if one is planning to spend ~1,500 on a new BS my first choice would be the new Rikon 18" and the Grizzly 0513. That said with an extra ~150 dollars you could have the bottom end of the 514 series in the shop. That 1-2K price range is full of options.

[Ben Rivel]

Interesting. How did you find out about this saw? There doesnt seem to be info about it anywhere on the net.

[Van Huskey]

Interesting. How did you find out about this saw? There doesnt seem to be info about it anywhere on the net.

As a bandsaw geek, I have my ways... :cool:

BTW since I posted this morning Grizzly has put it up on their site.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

As one in the market for a bandsaw, how would you convince me to go for a 14" when I can have the 17" set up the same way for the same price? The only benefit I see to the 14" would be the 110 wiring (if I don't currently have a 220 outlet wired up in my shop space, which I don't), or a very small savings in cost of blades (and this particular 14" saw takes a 120" blade, so probably no savings on the blades compared with the 17"). The 513 has the same size motor though (even though it apparently can only be wired 220).

[Van Huskey]

As one in the market for a bandsaw, how would you convince me to go for a 14" when I can have the 17" set up the same way for the same price?

I agree, like I said my choice for 1.5k new would be either the Rikon 10-342 or one of the 513s assuming space or power was not an issue. That said there are a lot of this class of machine sold. There is the case where someone wants a smaller second saw which hides away easier than a larger saw, so I imagine this could be a factor as well.

Leaving out the small variable of greater cooling on a longer blade, over a long period of time you will see the cast nearly balance out, a longer blade will last proportionally longer doing the same cuts. Since blades are priced and sold pretty much directly based on length (except for the cutting/welding charge) you will see very little difference in the long haul.

[Curt Harms]

............................................
If you need references I can provide Creeker's names who can verify I didn't break their saw nor cause any police call level debachery while at their home... :o

But ...... that's half the fun:D. I wonder if Rikon is going to put their 10-326 on sale semi-regularly like they did the 10-325 for $799. I'm not sure of the difference between the 10-325 & the 10-326 beyond tool free blade guide adjustment and better fence.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

I agree, like I said my choice for 1.5k new would be either the Rikon 10-342 or one of the 513s assuming space or power was not an issue. That said there are a lot of this class of machine sold. There is the case where someone wants a smaller second saw which hides away easier than a larger saw, so I imagine this could be a factor as well.

Leaving out the small variable of greater cooling on a longer blade, over a long period of time you will see the cast nearly balance out, a longer blade will last proportionally longer doing the same cuts. Since blades are priced and sold pretty much directly based on length (except for the cutting/welding charge) you will see very little difference in the long haul.
Size savings is not an argument on this 14" either as it is actually taller than the 17" saws. Footprint savings is negligible.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

I think another big question is this; if you are dead set on a 14" (as in you don't have any way to get a 220 outlet setup for example), is the 1/2 horsepower increase and increase in resaw capacity worth an extra 50% over the G0555x? (at $800)

[Van Huskey]

I think another big question is this; if you are dead set on a 14" (as in you don't have any way to get a 220 outlet setup for example), is the 1/2 horsepower increase and increase in resaw capacity worth an extra 50% over the G0555x? (at $800)On the size issue sometimes every little bit counts depending on your space. However, when comparing this level of steel spined saw to the 14" Delta clones there are reasons to choose them at a higher price. Obviously, I can't speak to this one yet, but the steel spined saws in general are much more rigid and can provide significant increases in blade tension. The also tend to be more stable and in general offer a few more bells and whistles. Thats said I can't speak to why many people have been choosing 14" saws over 17/18" saws. It may be that people are buying what they can by locally and most brands don't have overlapping price ranges and the jump from 14" to the mid-sized saws is a significant amount.

Then there are the odd people like me for whom in regard to bandsaws 1 is too many and 12 is not enough. Over the years I ahve had a lot of bandsaws in my shop and played with exponentially more and I often pick bandsaws for very specific jobs and they may live their life with me with only one type of blade on them. There are use cases where a smaller wheeled saw with more rigidity and taller resaw capability along with some specific set of bells and whistles may do a certain job better than a bigger saw. There comes a time when tucking a small saw in the corner is a lot easier than dealing with another 20"+ saw.

[Van Huskey]

But ...... that's half the fun:D. I wonder if Rikon is going to put their 10-326 on sale semi-regularly like they did the 10-325 for $799. I'm not sure of the difference between the 10-325 & the 10-326 beyond tool free blade guide adjustment and better fence. If the someone isn't on parole/probabtion and isn't concerned about a little police interaction then they can let me know up front... The guides and better fence are the primary differences between the 325 and 326, both are nice but the old Rikon guides were the saws weak spot and I dislike guides that require tools (which the subject of this thread requires tools), the new guides have made a big difference in my opinion of the Rikon 14 and 18" saws that got them. Circle Saw in Houston has the best day to day prices on the Rikon AFAIK, roughly 850 for the 326 and 1300 for the 18" 342 they do charge $150 for lift gate residential delivery but if you are willing to ick them up at the terminal they are a good deal. The 10-353 is the better comparison to this new Grizzly saw, while it can't be wired 120v it has 3hp and 14" resaw and available from Circle Saw for $1350 so it and the G0817 are basically the same price give or take 50-100 depending on how one takes delivery. Rikon does have a 5 year warranty which is also important for some. Time will tell and the G0817 has the possibility of being the best saw in the niche, I am eager to get my hands on one...

[Geoff Crimmins]

It's interesting that the 2hp motor on the 17" saw is rated at 20 A at 110v, while the 2hp motor on this new 14" saw is rated at 15 A. Either there's an error on the website, one motor is somehow substantially more efficient, or the definition of 2 HP is fairly flexible. In any case, thank you for posting about the new saw, Van. It's nice to have another good option for someone looking for a 14" bandsaw.

--Geoff

[Van Huskey]

I avoid speculating on electrical input vs work output of motors but I certainly understand what you are saying there are a fixed amount of watts in a 120v/15 amp circuit with some variation due to voltage differences and the trip point of an individual breaker. While I have often wondered if induction motors are slipping toward the "loose" ratings that universal motors used I think most of what we see is more efficient motors. Countries around the world have been introducing regulations requiring premium efficiency motors in many applications and while most of the equipment we use avoid such regulations currently the increase in production of premium efficiency motors has brought their price down. So a manufacturer who is trying to sell the most saw for 120v may indeed opt for a higher efficiency motor. In this case the motor would be doing 1,500 watts of work at full load and a 120v (at 120v) 15 amp circuit has 1,800 watts available. Now technically Grizzly lists it at 15 amps @ 110v which is only 1,650 watts but my guess is the copy writer is just old school and like many old school folks missed the shift to 120v nominal.

A picture for those that care:




346933


Edit: the spec sheet is up on Grizzly.com now, nothing particularly interesting that hadn't been previously shown. The weight is 319 pounds so I was a little generous in my guess or 330-350#, this lines it up almost exactly with the 10-353 @ 315# and more or less in the middle between the Laguna LT14bx and LT14SUV models.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

This has sparked my interest a bit. I was really wanting the 513X2BF but I don't currently have a shop set up with 220 and I'm not sure when that will happen down the road, so I'd like to just get some of my essential tools to get started at least. I was leaning towards picking up the 555X 14" since it is still a reasonably heavy duty 14" and I figured it would do the job for now and allow me to get right to work with it now. This new option would give me the resaw capacity I was looking for with the 17" and still allow me to use it with a 110 outlet. I just have to wrap my head around whether I would want to spend just $75 shy of the 17" that I wanted originally. Or if I should really just stick with the 555X at almost half the price and just upgrade to a 17" later. Decisions decisions.

[Van Huskey]

This has sparked my interest a bit. I was really wanting the 513X2BF but I don't currently have a shop set up with 220 and I'm not sure when that will happen down the road, so I'd like to just get some of my essential tools to get started at least. I was leaning towards picking up the 555X 14" since it is still a reasonably heavy duty 14" and I figured it would do the job for now and allow me to get right to work with it now. This new option would give me the resaw capacity I was looking for with the 17" and still allow me to use it with a 110 outlet. I just have to wrap my head around whether I would want to spend just $75 shy of the 17" that I wanted originally. Or if I should really just stick with the 555X at almost half the price and just upgrade to a 17" later. Decisions decisions.

Thats a tough place to be, trying to work now and future proof at the same time. My suggestion would be to pick up a used saw, it won't take much looking to find a usable 14" Delta/cast clone to tide you over and you are likely to be able to get most or all of your money back out of it. CL can be great if you are patient, I post great deals on bandsaws from all over the country in the Deals forum. There is a gorgeous 20" Yates Y-120 for $250 in Connecticut that honestly would be worth the drive for you, even considering gas and tuning up the Yates it is still a better saw and saves a chunk of change, even if you had to rent a U-haul.

The other option would be to buy a 513X2F and change out the motor starter and cord and wire it for 120v now and you can switch back later if you care to. Grizzly charges about $175 (IIRC) for motor starter but you can find them cheaper. You will need a 20 amp circuit and assuming you do it will need to be a 20 amp receptacle (instead of the usual 15a duplex) but that is a 10 minute fix.

[Myk Rian]

As a bandsaw geek, I have my ways...
That doesn't tell us anything.

[Van Huskey]

That doesn't tell us anything.

That was by design. :)

By the time it was ask Grizzly had posted the info so I felt no need to provide annotations of my sources, that and you know the whole international bandsaw man of mystery thing my alter-ego thinks it has going. :rolleyes:

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Thats a tough place to be, trying to work now and future proof at the same time. My suggestion would be to pick up a used saw, it won't take much looking to find a usable 14" Delta/cast clone to tide you over and you are likely to be able to get most or all of your money back out of it. CL can be great if you are patient, I post great deals on bandsaws from all over the country in the Deals forum. There is a gorgeous 20" Yates Y-120 for $250 in Connecticut that honestly would be worth the drive for you, even considering gas and tuning up the Yates it is still a better saw and saves a chunk of change, even if you had to rent a U-haul.

The other option would be to buy a 513X2F and change out the motor starter and cord and wire it for 120v now and you can switch back later if you care to. Grizzly charges about $175 (IIRC) for motor starter but you can find them cheaper. You will need a 20 amp circuit and assuming you do it will need to be a 20 amp receptacle (instead of the usual 15a duplex) but that is a 10 minute fix.

The other way to approach this question would be to simply ask, what benefits would 513X2BF have over this new 14" Grizzly saw? Slightly larger throat, another inch of table width, and the ability to put a 1" blade vs 3/4" on the 14". Doesn't seem like there is really much advantage of the 17" unless I am missing something.

[Van Huskey]

The other way to approach this question would be to simply ask, what benefits would 513X2BF have over this new 14" Grizzly saw? Slightly larger throat, another inch of table width, and the ability to put a 1" blade vs 3/4" on the 14". Doesn't seem like there is really much advantage of the 17" unless I am missing something.

This is sorta in keeping with what I have said before about the Grizzly bandsaw line it is packed with options between about $500 and $2000. Often there is significant overlap and it also makes it easy to start up the ladder with a $900 saw and after you do the process of "well for $100 more I get this and that" you end up buying a $1600 saw. This is unusual for machine manufacturers but it seems to work for Grizzly and though it allows their customers to have more choice it also induces paralysis by analysis. I personally need to get hands on with the new saw before I can speculate about the strengths and weaknesses of each saw. My guess this class of saw sells well since in most other cases the price jump to the next size in a manufacturers line is bigger.

[Greg Peterson]

I thought one of the limitations of the 14" BS is resaw thickness and width of blade. Wider blades prefer a larger radius wheel.
Looking at Timber Wolf they do not appear to offer a blade wider than 1/2" (.025 thickness) for the 14" BS.
I'll defer to your knowledge of the matter Van. I'M sure theris is a negligible matter or at least there are blades that meet this need.

[Van Huskey]

I thought one of the limitations of the 14" BS is resaw thickness and width of blade. Wider blades prefer a larger radius wheel.
Looking at Timber Wolf they do not appear to offer a blade wider than 1/2" (.025 thickness) for the 14" BS.
I'll defer to your knowledge of the matter Van. I'M sure theris is a negligible matter or at least there are blades that meet this need.

While it is true that there is a cutoff for the thickness of a blade and the diameter of a bandsaw wheel the tensioning ability of the saw is more likely to be the limitation than the thickness as long as one is using a blade with a flexible backer, the ones discusssed around here are almost exclusively that type. There is a higher chance of fatigue cracks due to the higher flexing of a band on a 14" wheel but you really don't see that much anymore with a wider number of flexible bands available than years ago.

The lighter weight 17/18" saws may not have more tensioning ability (or possibly less in some cases) than one of the heavier 14" saws. While guide and while width also come into play with the type/size of blade one can use if one is using a bi-metal or carbide blade (which are by far the most economical for resawing) tension is almost always the limiting factor not the guides or the wheel width or diameter.


In the end if one wants to use a particular blade type, width and thickness you almost have to compare machine to machine and not machine class to machine class. The reality is there is a wide variation of capabilities within a wheel size and these capabilities often overlap across bandsaw size classes. There are 14" saws capable of getting the most out of a particular blade that some 18" saws can not. While weight isn't everything consider Grizzly sells a 17" 513 that is only 266 pounds so I suspect this new 14" saw at 319# will be stiffer and as long as it has an adequate spring will be able to tension a wider and/or thicker blade than the 513ANV.

[Curt Harms]

If the someone isn't on parole/probabtion and isn't concerned about a little police interaction then they can let me know up front... The guides and better fence are the primary differences between the 325 and 326, both are nice but the old Rikon guides were the saws weak spot and I dislike guides that require tools (which the subject of this thread requires tools), the new guides have made a big difference in my opinion of the Rikon 14 and 18" saws that got them.

For grins I checked on retrofitting the new style guides to a 10-325. They're selling a retrofit kit - 10-900 for $150.99 from one source.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Well here is an issue. The new G0817 saw specs state that it takes a 120" blade up to 3/4" wide. Looking at Grizzly's website, there are only 3 blades that are 120 inches, all are closeout, and all are 1". So it appears one deciding factor in going with this new 14" saw is that there are extremely limited options for blades. That in itself would be worth the swing towards a 17" for an additional $75 and a large increase in blade options.

[Keith Hankins]

I've hd my G0513 for over 10 years now. I went and compared that to the 817 and noticed something. As far as height its 2" taller capacity, obviously much smaller on L/R of blade. It does have the Cast Iron wheels and trunions. However, my trunions/wheels have never ever been an issue and I've put some big boy pieces up there to cut. It will give you more, but marketably more, I doubt. Put a good blade on it and no issues.

After looking at it If you have only one bandsaw that must do it all then this would be a nice option. However, I found over the years that I hated the change over and tuning required from goin to thin blades for small stuff to the Laguna carbide blade for resaw. While more expensive that the 17" presents options.

For me I set my 513 up for resaw and bought a 1934 delta 14" for the small stuff and never looked back. (200$)

Anyway it looks like a nice saw, but I'd look for an old piece of American Iron first.

If you not into that then it looks neat.

[Van Huskey]

Well here is an issue. The new G0817 saw specs state that it takes a 120" blade up to 3/4" wide. Looking at Grizzly's website, there are only 3 blades that are 120 inches, all are closeout, and all are 1". So it appears one deciding factor in going with this new 14" saw is that there are extremely limited options for blades. That in itself would be worth the swing towards a 17" for an additional $75 and a large increase in blade options.

I am about to go on a rant, but it isn't directed at you.. If a person is buying their blades from a place that buys them pre-welded and sells them boxed or shrink-wrapped on carboard or in any other fashion that indicates they were not welding by the one selling them, they are overpaying. Find a place that welds their own blades to length, they exist almost everywhere and there are some great ones online as well, a few examples are Spectrum Supply, Woodcraftbands and Iturra Design. The key is none of these places car if you need a 120", 93.5" or 279 1/2" band. Band size is never a limiting factor with a bandsaw. Rant over. As a follow on to this here is a thread where I posted a short primer on bandsaw blades, I am pretty sure I touched on the band size issue. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149862-Lets-talk-bandsaw-blades!

[Van Huskey]

I've hd my G0513 for over 10 years now. I went and compared that to the 817 and noticed something. As far as height its 2" taller capacity, obviously much smaller on L/R of blade. It does have the Cast Iron wheels and trunions. However, my trunions/wheels have never ever been an issue and I've put some big boy pieces up there to cut. It will give you more, but marketably more, I doubt. Put a good blade on it and no issues.

After looking at it If you have only one bandsaw that must do it all then this would be a nice option. However, I found over the years that I hated the change over and tuning required from goin to thin blades for small stuff to the Laguna carbide blade for resaw. While more expensive that the 17" presents options.

For me I set my 513 up for resaw and bought a 1934 delta 14" for the small stuff and never looked back. (200$)

Anyway it looks like a nice saw, but I'd look for an old piece of American Iron first.

If you not into that then it looks neat.

Probably the biggest area the new saw may beat the 513 series is frame deflection but it is hard to say without actually measuring both saws, if this is the case and the spring is capable of more pressure then the 14" saw will be able to tension a wider/thicker blade correctly. This is just a guess at this point but is usually the case with bandsaws built with resawing in mind.

Personally, I think 3-4 bandsaw is the best choice for a shop but then I have bandsaws on the brain. There is no question that some of the best bandsaws have been built in the US and Europe, mainly Italy. One can still buy some US made saws (but the prices are extreme) and Europe still makes a bunch but for a lot of people either finding used saws is too much of a pain or they don't want to deal with the issues that can come with used. I have owned a stupid number of bandsaws and VERY rarely have any of them been bought new, but there are a lot of people that buy new saws (otherwise I wouldn't be able to buy used ones).

While there is a lot of overlap between the 14" and 17/18" classes in terms of price, quality and capacity it just helps people find Goldilocks.

Your 1934 is probably a Delta 890, one of the very early "grandparents" of todays 14" cast saws, no question the most copied of any bandsaw sold in the US. Those along with the heavier Powermatic, Walker Turner and 15" General make excellent second saws, my favorite is the PM141 since it is much beefier but harder to find than the old Deltas and commands a premium price in the marketplace so you have to get lucky to get a good one, the farther north one lives the better chance they have to get one of the excellent General saws.

All that said the saw that is the focus of the thread has more capacity than these saws and is (will be) avaiable new with a warranty which a lot of people prefer.

[Van Huskey]

For grins I checked on retrofitting the new style guides to a 10-325. They're selling a retrofit kit - 10-900 for $150.99 from one source.

I "think" from my conversation with them at IWF that $159 is the list price. They are certainly better than the previous ones which was the weak spot on their saws. The one thing I will say is the bearings look almost comically large on a 14" saw. Nothing really practically wrong with it but from a theoretical POV it does move the bearing surface farther away from the wood.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

I am about to go on a rant, but it isn't directed at you.. If a person is buying their blades from a place that buys them pre-welded and sells them boxed or shrink-wrapped on carboard or in any other fashion that indicates they were not welding by the one selling them, they are overpaying. Find a place that welds their own blades to length, they exist almost everywhere and there are some great ones online as well, a few examples are Spectrum Supply, Woodcraftbands and Iturra Design. The key is none of these places car if you need a 120", 93.5" or 279 1/2" band. Band size is never a limiting factor with a bandsaw. Rant over. As a follow on to this here is a thread where I posted a short primer on bandsaw blades, I am pretty sure I touched on the band size issue. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149862-Lets-talk-bandsaw-blades!

Actually I didn't know that purchasing a custom made blade was even an option, let alone the preferred practice. Good to know. And thanks for the awesome link on blades.
In your experience with Grizzly saws have you found that their specs for max blade size run true? Can one assume this saw will be able to properly tension the 3/4" blade they say it can handle?

[Van Huskey]

Actually I didn't know that purchasing a custom made blade was even an option, let alone the preferred practice. Good to know. And thanks for the awesome link on blades.
In your experience with Grizzly saws have you found that their specs for max blade size run true? Can one assume this saw will be able to properly tension the 3/4" blade they say it can handle?

In most cases bandsaw blades bought from retailers have at least one more middleman in the chain so prices are almost laways higher and the selection of blade stock is often lower.

With the blade width question you have opened (possibly unwittingly) a huge kettle of fish.

First, most bandsaw manufacturers state the upper blade capacity width on the widest blade possible to snake onto the wheels and the guides can handle. Often the very largest blade a saw "says" it can take is a pain to actually get on and off the saw depending on the path it must take. That said I would expect the 3/4" width maximum to be conservative on a saw like this and will probably go on without much trouble, but that remains to be seen.

The second issue is what width blade can a particular saw tension properly, since it matters not if you can physically put on and track a 2" blade, for example, is the saw can't tension it properly for use. Further, a blade is not a two dimensional object so the thickness of the blade is also as important as the width when it comes to how much tension a saw can put on the blade since area is what is important with strain, not width alone. So a saw may provide adequate tension for a 3/4" x .025" blade but not be able to tension a 3/4" x .035" blade since the cross section is roughly 40% greater and therefore needs roughly 40% more spring pressure to reach the same tension as the .025" gauge blade. This is compounded further by the fact some blade require more tension to be optimized, a carbide tipped blade will most likely be beat at 25,000-30,000 psi of tension where a carbon blade will work the best at around 15,000 psi of tension. So a 3/4" x .035" carbide blade will need a LOT more spring pressure and thus frame rigidity compared to a 3/4" x .022" carbon blade since the spring pressure will need to be nearly double to tension the cabide blade.

So to answer your question you need to know how practical it is to mount and dismount a 3/4" blade on the saw and then if it can tension a specific 3/4" blade. manufacturers of hobby to light industrial saws do not provide this information, it has to be determined by measuring a saw or using it and getting and educated guess by experience. My guess is this saw will work fine with all carbon blades and all but the thickest bi-metal and carbide tipped blades, but it is good practice to avoid the thickest bi-metal and carbide blades on 14" saws. With Grizzly saws like all the other manufactures you really have to take a hard look at the saw and tension spring area to get a guess. The 14" Delta cast clone saws from most every manufacturer list a 3/4" blade max, while you can usually get it on and off even a thinner gauge carbon steel blade is going to be under-tensioned on every one I have ever measured, this includes ones with aftermarket higher spring rate springs (which one must be careful with). Just looking at what I can see of the specs and in the pictures I expect this saw to be able to tension the thinner carbide and bi-metal blades properly, whether it can on the mid-thickness ones is a question but I would avoid those on a 14" wheel in any case.

[Shiraz Balolia]

FYI - the information was loaded on our website on 11/3/16 at 4:00 PM.

There are machines in stock at our MO location, but are showing out of stock on our website as the new manual is just coming back from the printers. As soon as the manuals come in the machines will show as in stock.

There will be several blade sizes for this new band saw available soon and will be in the 2017 main catalog. Generally when we add a band saw requiring a new size, we add those and keep them on hand for customer convenience. We order our blades in the USA from companies that custom weld them to our sizes and stock them in large quantities for same day shipping to our customers.

[Bradley Gray]

FWIW there is an amazing all cast iron 14" walker turner for sale right now on SMC classifieds for $800.

[Van Huskey]

FWIW there is an amazing all cast iron 14" walker turner for sale right now on SMC classifieds for $800.

It is gorgeous and someone should buy it!!!!! That said compared to this class of saw it has limited resaw capability, there likely won't be much cross shopping of the two.

[Rich Riddle]

As a bandsaw geek, I have my ways... :cool:

BTW since I posted this morning Grizzly has put it up on their site.
Van is a bandsaw geek? Say it isn't so......

[Rick Cicciarelli]

In most cases bandsaw blades bought from retailers have at least one more middleman in the chain so prices are almost laways higher and the selection of blade stock is often lower.

With the blade width question you have opened (possibly unwittingly) a huge kettle of fish.

First, most bandsaw manufacturers state the upper blade capacity width on the widest blade possible to snake onto the wheels and the guides can handle. Often the very largest blade a saw "says" it can take is a pain to actually get on and off the saw depending on the path it must take. That said I would expect the 3/4" width maximum to be conservative on a saw like this and will probably go on without much trouble, but that remains to be seen.

The second issue is what width blade can a particular saw tension properly, since it matters not if you can physically put on and track a 2" blade, for example, is the saw can't tension it properly for use. Further, a blade is not a two dimensional object so the thickness of the blade is also as important as the width when it comes to how much tension a saw can put on the blade since area is what is important with strain, not width alone. So a saw may provide adequate tension for a 3/4" x .025" blade but not be able to tension a 3/4" x .035" blade since the cross section is roughly 40% greater and therefore needs roughly 40% more spring pressure to reach the same tension as the .025" gauge blade. This is compounded further by the fact some blade require more tension to be optimized, a carbide tipped blade will most likely be beat at 25,000-30,000 psi of tension where a carbon blade will work the best at around 15,000 psi of tension. So a 3/4" x .035" carbide blade will need a LOT more spring pressure and thus frame rigidity compared to a 3/4" x .022" carbon blade since the spring pressure will need to be nearly double to tension the cabide blade.

So to answer your question you need to know how practical it is to mount and dismount a 3/4" blade on the saw and then if it can tension a specific 3/4" blade. manufacturers of hobby to light industrial saws do not provide this information, it has to be determined by measuring a saw or using it and getting and educated guess by experience. My guess is this saw will work fine with all carbon blades and all but the thickest bi-metal and carbide tipped blades, but it is good practice to avoid the thickest bi-metal and carbide blades on 14" saws. With Grizzly saws like all the other manufactures you really have to take a hard look at the saw and tension spring area to get a guess. The 14" Delta cast clone saws from most every manufacturer list a 3/4" blade max, while you can usually get it on and off even a thinner gauge carbon steel blade is going to be under-tensioned on every one I have ever measured, this includes ones with aftermarket higher spring rate springs (which one must be careful with). Just looking at what I can see of the specs and in the pictures I expect this saw to be able to tension the thinner carbide and bi-metal blades properly, whether it can on the mid-thickness ones is a question but I would avoid those on a 14" wheel in any case.
Trick question for you then, when looking into a resaw blade, what is likely to provide better results; a wider blade (3/4") that is thinner gauge (allowing more tension), or a smaller blade (1/2-5/8"), that is a heavier gauge?

[Van Huskey]

Trick question for you then, when looking into a resaw blade, what is likely to provide better results; a wider blade (3/4") that is thinner gauge (allowing more tension), or a smaller blade (1/2-5/8"), that is a heavier gauge?

First, I will assume ALL there variables are the same except for the width and gauge of the bands and assume the saw in quesion can tension all the the blades correctly.

The primary difference in this case is the beam strength of each band when tensioned. You assertion the wider thinner blade can be tensioned higher may or may not be the case. The beam strength is determined by tension and you need to know the cross section of the actual blades. So you need the disttance from the gullet to the back of the blade, then multiply that by the pressure exerted on each half of the blade (this is equal to wheel tension or half of spring tension) to determine the tension or strain on the blade, the higher strain will have the most beam strength and will in theory give better results, again assuming all the other characteristics of the two blades are the same. A very loose rule of thumb is the thinner wider blade will PROBABLY have the higher beam strength properly tensioned but one really must do the calculations for each blade (or directly measure strain) to determine this.

A secondary difference is the wider blade (on most guides) will not be allowed to angle off the correct cut by as much as a more narrow blade if the guide offset is the same. Simple geometry.

In the end for resawing you want to get the widest blade that can be properly tensioned but this rule of thumb really discounts beam strength as being the real reason behind the suggestion, to verify this you have to take into account all that I have said above, but again the rule of thumb almost always works since it is rare for a manufacturer to have a more narrow blade in the same model that provides higher beam strength than a wider blade in the same model when both are properly tensioned.

So indeed it was a trick question because I didn't have enough information (specifically the cross sectional area or numbers to calculate that) in order to answer.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

First, I will assume ALL there variables are the same except for the width and gauge of the bands and assume the saw in quesion can tension all the the blades correctly.

The primary difference in this case is the beam strength of each band when tensioned. You assertion the wider thinner blade can be tensioned higher may or may not be the case. The beam strength is determined by tension and you need to know the cross section of the actual blades. So you need the disttance from the gullet to the back of the blade, then multiply that by the pressure exerted on each half of the blade (this is equal to wheel tension or half of spring tension) to determine the tension or strain on the blade, the higher strain will have the most beam strength and will in theory give better results, again assuming all the other characteristics of the two blades are the same. A very loose rule of thumb is the thinner wider blade will PROBABLY have the higher beam strength properly tensioned but one really must do the calculations for each blade (or directly measure strain) to determine this.

A secondary difference is the wider blade (on most guides) will not be allowed to angle off the correct cut by as much as a more narrow blade if the guide offset is the same. Simple geometry.

In the end for resawing you want to get the widest blade that can be properly tensioned but this rule of thumb really discounts beam strength as being the real reason behind the suggestion, to verify this you have to take into account all that I have said above, but again the rule of thumb almost always works since it is rare for a manufacturer to have a more narrow blade in the same model that provides higher beam strength than a wider blade in the same model when both are properly tensioned.

So indeed it was a trick question because I didn't have enough information (specifically the cross sectional area or numbers to calculate that) in order to answer.

Good lord this is complicated. When I finally get my saw can I just have you pick out the three or four blades I'll need to cover all tasks I'll likely endeavor? I think particle physics is an easier conversation to have. ;)

[Van Huskey]

Good lord this is complicated. When I finally get my saw can I just have you pick out the three or four blades I'll need to cover all tasks I'll likely endeavor? I think particle physics is an easier conversation to have. ;)

Most everything like this has a short cut which I have mentioned. I find this far quicker to do than figuring chip load, knife marks per inch and rim speed for shaper tooling. As for the bandsaw blades once you understand what is actually going on you can get very close doing the math in your head or better yet you just go by gut and experience. While I haven't yet seen this saw in person my guess will be a 3/4" .022-.028 carbide blade will be perfect for resawing on this saw.

When you get a saw I and plenty of others will be happy to give you a list of blades for the saw. Bandsaw tooling is like any other machine, everyone will have their favorite and there are many quality options. Most can do 90%+ of their bandsaw work with a 3/8" 3 or 4 TPI blade and a wider resaw blade, that said many will also have multiple bandsaws and multiple blades for each in order to come closer to the best blade for each type of task.

[Bill Sutherland]

Did you ever get to see the new Grizzly? I'm in the mkt for a new saw and was thinking the new Rikon 326 would be the best for the $$. Now I'm not so sure. Most of what I do is small stuff and mostly resaw.

[Van Huskey]

Did you ever get to see the new Grizzly? I'm in the mkt for a new saw and was thinking the new Rikon 326 would be the best for the $$. Now I'm not so sure. Most of what I do is small stuff and mostly resaw.

No, since they closed the Muncy showroom I have a harder time getting to see their stuff first hand and nobody has PMed me about visiting to see their new toy, if anyone has bought one yet. I am in Philly and NYC 2-3 times a year and always used to find the time to run out to Muncy without adding a day to my trip but I am rarely in St Louis and the last time my only free time was on Sunday, when I am in the Seatac area I never seem to have the free time to make the trek up to Bellingham but I may make time next trip.

In any event the 326 is about as good as you can do for the price BUT if you are looking at the $1400-$1500 range (shipped) like the G0817 you need to take a hard look at the Laguna BX models and Rikon 10-353, if you have 240v available the 353 is really tough to beat in a 14" saw with 14" of resaw and a 3hp motor along with a 5 year warranty. While I really like the fit and finish of the Laguna and love the ceramic guides if I was spending $1500 on a new 14" saw the 10-353 would be tough to overlook, and is available residential liftgate shipped for just under $1500 from Circle Saw in Houston. At this point I only have paper specs to evaluate the G0817 but 50% more HP and 5 times the warranty is hard to overcome when the 10-353 is a solid saw when hands on. At some point I hope to actually be able to use the G0817 but at this point it is just a series of pictures and numbers to me and I haven't seen a peep on the interweb about them.

[Chris Hachet]

No, since they closed the Muncy showroom I have a harder time getting to see their stuff first hand and nobody has PMed me about visiting to see their new toy, if anyone has bought one yet. I am in Philly and NYC 2-3 times a year and always used to find the time to run out to Muncy without adding a day to my trip but I am rarely in St Louis and the last time my only free time was on Sunday, when I am in the Seatac area I never seem to have the free time to make the trek up to Bellingham but I may make time next trip.

In any event the 326 is about as good as you can do for the price BUT if you are looking at the $1400-$1500 range (shipped) like the G0817 you need to take a hard look at the Laguna BX models and Rikon 10-353, if you have 240v available the 353 is really tough to beat in a 14" saw with 14" of resaw and a 3hp motor along with a 5 year warranty. While I really like the fit and finish of the Laguna and love the ceramic guides if I was spending $1500 on a new 14" saw the 10-353 would be tough to overlook, and is available residential liftgate shipped for just under $1500 from Circle Saw in Houston. At this point I only have paper specs to evaluate the G0817 but 50% more HP and 5 times the warranty is hard to overcome when the 10-353 is a solid saw when hands on. At some point I hope to actually be able to use the G0817 but at this point it is just a series of pictures and numbers to me and I haven't seen a peep on the interweb about them.

Curious to see what you think when you try it.

[Art Mann]

I have two 14 inch band saws. One of them is a Craftsman welded steel frame saw that is identical to a previous model Rikon but with black paint. The other one is the Laguna 14/12. The Laguna will easily tension a 3/4 inch blade, especially the thin ones like the Woodslicer. The Craftsman/Rikon will also accept a 3/4 inch blade but it is a struggle to get it tensioned enough and I stopped using them because I was afraid of damaging the frame or stripping out the tensioner threads. I have used a 1/2 inch resaw blade on the Craftsman and it works well, if slowly. I find it so much trouble to go between narrow and wide blades for different purposes that I kept the Craftsman just for curve and scroll type work and the Laguna for resawing.

As has been mentioned, the blade guide system of the Rikon saws is terrible. They are hard to adjust because the adjustment mechanism is built so sloppy that the whole procedure becomes a tedious and frustrating trial and error exercise. The open bearings are a consumable item. They fail on a regular basis. I buy them by the tube and replace one or two every few weeks of actual use. The blade guides on the Lagunas are the best I have ever tried. They are trivial to adjust accurately. I am at the point now where I doubt if I will ever buy another inexpensive band saw with roller bearing guides.

[Bill Sutherland]

Are you talking about the new Rikon 326?

[Chris Hachet]

I have two 14 inch band saws. One of them is a Craftsman welded steel frame saw that is identical to a previous model Rikon but with black paint. The other one is the Laguna 14/12. The Laguna will easily tension a 3/4 inch blade, especially the thin ones like the Woodslicer. The Craftsman/Rikon will also accept a 3/4 inch blade but it is a struggle to get it tensioned enough and I stopped using them because I was afraid of damaging the frame or stripping out the tensioner threads. I have used a 1/2 inch resaw blade on the Craftsman and it works well, if slowly. I find it so much trouble to go between narrow and wide blades for different purposes that I kept the Craftsman just for curve and scroll type work and the Laguna for resawing.

As has been mentioned, the blade guide system of the Rikon saws is terrible. They are hard to adjust because the adjustment mechanism is built so sloppy that the whole procedure becomes a tedious and frustrating trial and error exercise. The open bearings are a consumable item. They fail on a regular basis. I buy them by the tube and replace one or two every few weeks of actual use. The blade guides on the Lagunas are the best I have ever tried. They are trivial to adjust accurately. I am at the point now where I doubt if I will ever buy another inexpensive band saw with roller bearing guides.Kind of partially where I am at-i like the idea of Rikon because my local Wood craft is very good to me, but Wood Werks is also very professional and they sell Laguna. Were I to buy a 14 Bx or 14 SUV Laguna I would be looking at 1500-1700 for the saw, which would also buy a 17 or 19 inch grizzly or a very nice vintage saw.

[Art Mann]

The saw I have has not been in production for a few years. I am sure that by now, Rikon has improved the design over my model. I remember having read that somebody (maybe Rikon) has retrofit kits for the terrible blade guides.


Are you talking about the new Rikon 326?

[Bill Sutherland]

I guess I'm trying to justify almost double the price for a saw that would adds minimal resaw capacity.

[John K Jordan]

...Rikon....

Hey Bandsaw Man, do you know if upgraded guides are available for the 18" Rikon 10-345? I've had one for a long time and got used to the guides but would like to try updated guides if available. I couldn't find new guides through google but I didn't call Rikon yet.

JKJ

[Van Huskey]

The saw I have has not been in production for a few years. I am sure that by now, Rikon has improved the design over my model. I remember having read that somebody (maybe Rikon) has retrofit kits for the terrible blade guides.

Rikon completely redesigned their guides in 2016, showed them at IWF and they are on their newest models. The guides they had were OK for their budget saws since otherwise they were a great deal but were out of place on their more expensive saws. As bearing guides go I quite like the new ones.

[Van Huskey]

Hey Bandsaw Man, do you know if upgraded guides are available for the 18" Rikon 10-345? I've had one for a long time and got used to the guides but would like to try updated guides if available. I couldn't find new guides through google but I didn't call Rikon yet.

JKJ

I have only seen the packaged upgrade from Rikon for their 14" saws, that said the new 18" 10-342 has updated guides very similar to the 14" versions so they may have/be planning a packaged upgrade or Rikon may be able to sell them to you as parts, that is assuming the mounting is the same.

IIRC Carter sells an upgrade for the 10-345.

[Van Huskey]

I guess I'm trying to justify almost double the price for a saw that would adds minimal resaw capacity.

If you only consider the resaw height metric then it is hard to justify any of the upper end 14" steel spined saws over the 10-326 but note that is far from the only difference. When you take in the entire saw (hp, weight, foot brake etc) it becomes clear where the extra money goes BUT each individual has to decide for themselves. The 10-326 is a great saw for the money and can do most of the things the average woodworker needs to do with a bandsaw. I personally think many woodworkers short the budget on bandsaws but I have a biased perspective. The 3 saws in question are definitely a step up from the 10-326 BUT one also has to consider that $1500 opens up some of the 17/18" saws which may be a better fit if you have another sq ft or two of shop space...

In the end I expect the G0817 is a fine saw and will add a third serious competitor at the $1500 14" price point and it will come down to minutia for anyone choosing between the three.

[Bill Sutherland]

Well it looks like I'm down to 3, the 326 353 from Rikon or the 817 from Grizzly. I have to check the frt on the Rikon because it looks like they charge 150 for the residental liftgate service plus another $300+ for freight to Wa. The 817 and 326 seem pretty close in price.

[Van Huskey]

Well it looks like I'm down to 3, the 326 353 from Rikon or the 817 from Grizzly. I have to check the frt on the Rikon because it looks like they charge 150 for the residental liftgate service plus another $300+ for freight to Wa. The 817 and 326 seem pretty close in price.

Check Circle Saw in Houston, they ship residential liftgate for $150 total. The 10-326 should cost you about $1,000 shipped and the 817 and 10-353 should be between about $1450 and $1500 shipped.

[Bill Sutherland]

I see where they charge for the residental plus the liftgate but they also have a "freight" estimator at checkout. That's additional $341. Unless I'm missing something. I do see Grizzly has a couple of the older models at free shipping but if I am going that route I'd go for the newest version. To confuse matters more, my local dealer has the 326 at $899!!

[Van Huskey]

I see where they charge for the residental plus the liftgate but they also have a "freight" estimator at checkout. That's additional $341. Unless I'm missing something. I do see Grizzly has a couple of the older models at free shipping but if I am going that route I'd go for the newest version. To confuse matters more, my local dealer has the 326 at $899!!

I could swear that is different from the way it was a couple of months ago when a friend bought from them BUT at that price point I would be looking at a 17/18" saw. That being the case I would look hard at the Laguna 14BX /2.5hp which is available from Rockler for 1574 shipped or wait until they have it on sale for 10% off. The 10-326 is a great saw for the price and with the new guides I really like it at the price point.

[Bill Sutherland]

This is getting tough. The 14bx is $1,399 at Acme with no tax and free shipping!! Pretty close to the 326 and less tha the other two

[Van Huskey]

This is getting tough. The 14bx is $1,399 at Acme with no tax and free shipping!!

Is that the 1.75 hp or 2.5hp?

[Bill Sutherland]

$1,259 for 14BX at Woodcraft!!

[Bill Sutherland]

1.75hp which may be fine for my small jobs but I do have 220 available and I think it's $100 more for that.

[Bill Sutherland]

Now the question, the BX, 353, 326 Or the GO817. The 353 is a bit more than the other three.

[Chris Hachet]

I could swear that is different from the way it was a couple of months ago when a friend bought from them BUT at that price point I would be looking at a 17/18" saw. That being the case I would look hard at the Laguna 14BX /2.5hp which is available from Rockler for 1574 shipped or wait until they have it on sale for 10% off. The 10-326 is a great saw for the price and with the new guides I really like it at the price point.So you really like the 14 BX 2.5? Could you mentally justify it when you could probably get a similar 17 inch machine from Grizzly for nearly the same $?

I say this being drawn strongly to the 14 BX but not pulling the trigger because it feels a bit undersized.

[Chris Hachet]

1.75hp which may be fine for my small jobs but I do have 220 available and I think it's $100 more for that.


I am planning on 220 and a stronger motor regardless of the bandsaw route I take.

[Van Huskey]

So you really like the 14 BX 2.5? Could you mentally justify it when you could probably get a similar 17 inch machine from Grizzly for nearly the same $?

I say this being drawn strongly to the 14 BX but not pulling the trigger because it feels a bit undersized.

That is the 64,000 question. I think the 2.5 hp BX is the best buy of the BX series and the 513 series has a 2 hp motor. I am also partial to the Laguna guides and ceramic guides in general. I think there is a reasonably balanced pro and con list for several saws in the $1500 range one really just has to decide which saw most closely matches what they are looking for and their use. The OP probably shouldn't overlook the Laguna 14/12 either.

As for mental gymnastics when it comes to bandsaws I can be gold medal worthy but I admit it is difficult for me to consider a 14" saw, or 17" saw for that matter as a primary bandsaw, as a result I may have differeing priorities than someone else in this price range.
.

[lowell holmes]

Will someone define "Steel Spined Bandsaw" ?

Does this mean there are no cast components in the spine? I have no issues with my 14" Jet which has cast parts.

[Bill Sutherland]

That was for the 1.75 and $90 more for 2.5

[Van Huskey]

Will someone define "Steel Spined Bandsaw" ?

Does this mean there are no cast components in the spine? I have no issues with my 14" Jet which has cast parts.

Steel spinded is a saw where the primary spine structure is made of welded steel. Jet has made plenty of 14 cast saws (copies of Delta 14" saws) and now makes several 14" steel spined saws. The 14" cast saws modeled after the Delta 14" saw are fine little saws but don't have the rigidity of the current welded steel saws. This has nothing to do with the material and everything to do with the way they are designed. In general saws either have a cast frame or a steel frame I can't recall a saw with any significant amount of both in the structural part of the spine.

[Bill Sutherland]

Just dropped by the local Woodcraft and now to make things even more interesting/confusing, the Rikons are going to be 15% off so that makes the 326 that I'm looking at about $850. The Lagunas were 10% off but he told me that was ending very soon.

[Van Huskey]

Just dropped by the local Woodcraft and now to make things even more interesting/confusing, the Rikons are going to be 15% off so that makes the 326 that I'm looking at about $850. The Lagunas were 10% off but he told me that was ending very soon.

Flip a coin, they are all good saws. Further, don't increase your budget unless you actually want/need the extra horsepower etc.

[Bill Sutherland]

80% oh my bandsaw use is resawing for making small boxes. This will replace a Shopsmith I'm selling.

[Van Huskey]

80% oh my bandsaw use is resawing for making small boxes. This will replace a Shopsmith I'm selling.

Then leave money in the budget for a good carbide blade...

[Bill Sutherland]

What would you suggest for resawing.

[Van Huskey]

For the saws in question I would stay with a 3/4" blade and the best two 3/4" carbide resaw blades are the Lenox Trimaster and the Laguna Resaw King. The alternative is going with a impulse hardened spring steel blade (Spectrum Supply Kerfmaster, Iturra Bladerunner or Highland Woodslicer, they are all from the same blade stock) they are much cheaper leave very similar finish just dull MUCH faster, the carbide blades are far more cost effective long term.

[Bill Sutherland]

Thanks for all you insight/help Van. Makes wading through all the choices much easier.

[Chris Hachet]

Thanks for all you insight/help Van. Makes wading through all the choices much easier.


Agreed! Getting ready to pull the trigger myself....

[Bill Sutherland]

Agreed! Getting ready to pull the trigger myself....
Have you decided which saw you're going with?

[Chris Hachet]

Have you decided which saw you're going with?No...My calculus is not exactly rational. I am debating between the 14 BX, 17 inch Grizzly, 20 inch Powermatic 81, Older 20 inch Delta, and a few other choices. I have an excellent lead on an Oliver 192, and have a good lead on a sixteen inch vintage Walker Turner. Thinking I will sell my Jet 14 inch when I get the new band saw. Each potential choice has a lot of potential ups and downs.

[Bill Sutherland]

There's a old Walker Turner in the Spokane CL but it looks pretty beat. 14" for $300.

[Van Huskey]

No...My calculus is not exactly rational. I am debating between the 14 BX, 17 inch Grizzly, 20 inch Powermatic 81, Older 20 inch Delta, and a few other choices. I have an excellent lead on an Oliver 192, and have a good lead on a sixteen inch vintage Walker Turner. Thinking I will sell my Jet 14 inch when I get the new band saw. Each potential choice has a lot of potential ups and downs.

Get the PM81, Delta 28-350 or 192 and be done with it, those saws are a class above to say the least, just pick the one in the best condition and get to cutting.

[Chris Hachet]

Get the PM81, Delta 28-350 or 192 and be done with it, those saws are a class above to say the least, just pick the one in the best condition and get to cutting.


If that is your opinion, that might just make things really easy for me. I really strongly prefer the feel of the Older American saws, methinks that is the route I will take.

Thanks!

[Van Huskey]

If that is your opinion, that might just make things really easy for me. I really strongly prefer the feel of the Older American saws, methinks that is the route I will take.
Thanks!

There is no question you would be getting more saw. I, however, am not one to simply say older is the choice for everyone. Some people prefer the new experience, no dealing with the logistics of getting it in your shop, it should be plug and play and it has a warranty. With an older saw you have to know what you are getting and prepare for any issues you may have. Again, condition is king in these cases. Buying older used is a matter of knowing what you are getting and knowing what you are getting into. While it is probably not the best saw of the three I am a fan of the Delta 28-350 (it is the curvy one) the newer squared off versions I don't like as much. Let us know more about the saws you are looking at and hopefully we can guide you in the best direction. Old saws can be a dream come true or a nightmare but a lot of old machine aficionados will gloss over the nightmare portions.... I suggest you start a new thread about the quest.

[Chris Hachet]

There is no question you would be getting more saw. I, however, am not one to simply say older is the choice for everyone. Some people prefer the new experience, no dealing with the logistics of getting it in your shop, it should be plug and play and it has a warranty. With an older saw you have to know what you are getting and prepare for any issues you may have. Again, condition is king in these cases. Buying older used is a matter of knowing what you are getting and knowing what you are getting into. While it is probably not the best saw of the three I am a fan of the Delta 28-350 (it is the curvy one) the newer squared off versions I don't like as much. Let us know more about the saws you are looking at and hopefully we can guide you in the best direction. Old saws can be a dream come true or a nightmare but a lot of old machine aficionados will gloss over the nightmare portions.... I suggest you start a new thread about the quest.I will. Wanting to do this once and do it right...was thinking of a smaller saw and thinking for a moment about a Powermatic 141 or a 14 inch walker Turner, but the 141's have come up in price and I want more re-saw capacity.

I would actually prefer to drag it home and rebuild it myself in some ways...will start another thread when I pull the trigger...

[Van Huskey]

I will. Wanting to do this once and do it right...was thinking of a smaller saw and thinking for a moment about a Powermatic 141 or a 14 inch walker Turner, but the 141's have come up in price and I want more re-saw capacity.

I would actually prefer to drag it home and rebuild it myself in some ways...will start another thread when I pull the trigger...

I am a big fan of the 141, it just tickles me to look at the tensioning area and compare it to a 14" Delta, it makes the Delta look like a toy. But it does have limited vertical height below the guides. 141/143s are indeed overpriced these days, I have bought Delta 28-350s for what a decent PM 141 would cost but the 141 has a well deserved reputation.

If you relish the thought of rebuilding one then forget new saws!

[Doug Bowman]

There is no question you would be getting more saw. I, however, am not one to simply say older is the choice for everyone. Some people prefer the new experience, no dealing with the logistics of getting it in your shop, it should be plug and play and it has a warranty. With an older saw you have to know what you are getting and prepare for any issues you may have. Again, condition is king in these cases. Buying older used is a matter of knowing what you are getting and knowing what you are getting into. While it is probably not the best saw of the three I am a fan of the Delta 28-350 (it is the curvy one) the newer squared off versions I don't like as much. Let us know more about the saws you are looking at and hopefully we can guide you in the best direction. Old saws can be a dream come true or a nightmare but a lot of old machine aficionados will gloss over the nightmare portions.... I suggest you start a new thread about the quest.

I see the Delta 28-350's come up for sale on Craigslist periodically - I was wondering what is the resaw capacity?

[Van Huskey]

I see the Delta 28-350's come up for sale on Craigslist periodically - I was wondering what is the resaw capacity?

I'll say 12" but it is actually more like 11 1/2- 11 3/4" under the guides.

Often they are underpowered compared to what we want today and repowering them presents a small challenge. It has a dual pulley system and the motor has a relatively unusual shaft size and if you put a dual pulley on the new "standard" motor the pulleys will not line up. The simple thing is to go to a single pulley and use a cogged belt instead of a standard V to carry the power.

I am a fan of the 28-350 and though a PM81 is a slightly better saw they are more rare, command a significant premium, are more often beat down and parts are more expensive. The 28-350, PM81 and Yates J-120 were are "lightweight" welded steel saws built for the light commercial and tech school market and were much cheaper than large cast saws. The 28-350 was bought by more schools and often have lived an easy life, the PM 81/83 were used more in commercial and light industrial applications and often have been run into the ground. Plus I like the look of the 28-350 better,it still has some of the Art Deco lines from earlier Delta machines.

[Bill Sutherland]

Now to throw this into a real tailspin a buddy of mine has a beautiful 18 inch Italian Laguna he loves and says he can't wait to use it because of the joy of the precision etc. He feels it has taken his enjoyment for woodworking to a new level. Anybody have experience with one of these?

[Van Huskey]

Now to throw this into a real tailspin a buddy of mine has a beautiful 18 inch Italian Laguna he loves and says he can't wait to use it because of the joy of the precision etc. He feels it has taken his enjoyment for woodworking to a new level. Anybody have experience with one of these?

I have had the ACM built Laguna saws and the Centauro built Minimax saws and they are indeed a pleasure to use. The Minimax is built heavier and are the best of the current Italian built saws. Both of them as well as Felder and Agazzani are worth looking for in the used market and you can buy the Felder, Minimax and Laguna new. It is simply a matter of where you want to set your budget.

[Bill Sutherland]

I got a chuckle on how he said he would find reasons to just go out and use the saw because he enjoyed it so much. I know in my case I've find that working with higher quality equipment exponentially increases the pleasure. Not sure there's that much pleasure difference between a Rikon 326 and the Laguna 18" Italian saw. I know there's quite a difference between my old Shop smith and my new Sawsrop PCS. For me,half the enjoyment of woodworking is using good machinery.

[Van Huskey]

I know in my case I've find that working with higher quality equipment exponentially increases the pleasure.


Just get one of these and be done with it...

354794

[Bill Sutherland]

Exactly what I need!! I'd have to sell one of my cars to dedicate garage space

[Chris Hachet]

80% oh my bandsaw use is resawing for making small boxes. This will replace a Shopsmith I'm selling.


I got a chuckle on how he said he would find reasons to just go out and use the saw because he enjoyed it so much. I know in my case I've find that working with higher quality equipment exponentially increases the pleasure. Not sure there's that much pleasure difference between a Rikon 326 and the Laguna 18" Italian saw. I know there's quite a difference between my old Shop smith and my new Sawsrop PCS. For me,half the enjoyment of woodworking is using good machinery.

I would say yes. Were I able to afford it I might well choose an 18 inch Italian saw. 18 inches seems like an awesome size for a home shop bandsaw, and I have used a Laguna 18 Italian. Rikon makes beautiful saws but nothing close to the Italian 18 Laguna.

Getting ready for some road trips myself... Powermatic 81 and 87 located in Chicago, 81 and 87 in both Amish country and Cleveland/Akron/Canton areas, 81 in Indianapolis, 81 in Cincinnati, sweet 87 I really like in Tennessee, 81 and 87 in Virginia and a few saws in PA. Also, a dozen of the fifties and sixties era Delta's ranging from basket case to pristine.

Should have finances and logistics in line and be getting an actual saw in the next month or two.

[Chris Hachet]

And I enjoy using good hand tools the most...But I think a proper bandsaw might change that perspective.

[Bill Sutherland]

I told him most of what I make is small boxes but also most of what I do will be resawing. He feels that enjoyment factor is so enjoyable and different from lesser saws I will be glad to have spent the money. I'm wondering if there is really THAT much difference. He lives far from me or I'd just go see for myself.

[Van Huskey]

I told him most of what I make is small boxes but also most of what I do will be resawing. He feels that enjoyment factor is so enjoyable and different from lesser saws I will be glad to have spent the money. I'm wondering if there is really THAT much difference. He lives far from me or I'd just go see for myself.

You are leaning over into what I consider a value assessment which is different for everyone. The 14" steel spined saws will all likely get you here you are going, the larger saws add speed and capacity. I think one of the most important things for each individual is deciding on a reasonable budget and doing their best to work within it. It is easy to get caught in budget creep (or budget landslide) on internet forums and "bigger, stronger, faster, better" is always intriguing but it isn't always the best choice for everyone and the work they do. I like bandsaws, it has really been a hobby within a hobby for me I buy bandsaws just to experience them and then sell them on unless they warrant a more permanent place. 75% of what I do on a bandsaw could be done on a Delta with a riser and a 1.5hp motor a much higher percentage with an Asian import 17/18" saw with 2hp. I do identify the idea of "pleasure to use" and I suppose it is a little like Festool vs Dewalt in that one has to decide how much "pleasure" is worth. Just listening to you in the thread I have a feeling that one of the good 14" saws would work out very well for you.

[Bill Sutherland]

I know once I started with Festool I really enjoyed woodworking at a new level. I love working with my SawStop and after the Shopsmith I look forward to projects. My electrician informs me I don't have the capacity to run overhead 220 radiant heaters and a saw. Looks like the 10-326 and the sale is at the right time.

[Steve Pickup]

<p>
Hi, hopefully, this thread is still active.Looking at either the Grizzly 817 or Rikon 10-353-14&quot;. I want 14&quot; resawing if possible and these both do that. The Rikon gives 3hp and the Grizzly 2hp. I also want to run at 220/240V. For the Grizzly that requires a new mag-switch, which including separate shipping adds $156. Additionally, CircleSaw can ship for less. The Grizzly 817 is on sale pencils out at $1490 including freight and the 220V mag-switch. The Rikon through CircleSaw $1422. Unless I'm not getting something, the Rikon is the way to go with an extra HP and a 5-year warranty vs 1-year for Grizzly. The GO817 would do what I want I'm pretty sure, but it's just not looking too competitive.</p>
<p>
Am I missing anything?</p>
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Thanks</p>