Customers

[Junior hall]

How did you start finding customers.

[Ross Moshinsky]

No offense, but based on all of your posts, you're not even close to being in a position to market your services.

[Junior hall]

May be so Ross I can not post pictures of the things i have done as i have a camera phone not going to buy another phone again but the camera part is busted. I still have a flip phone. All the people that live around me are elderly in there 60s -70s

Also i have learned and DONE more than since prior to this. I have done several pictures of the same exact things you all have posted just to get a feel for it all and to see if i could do it as well.. It looks the same as the original poster posted

Thanks Ross

[Lawrence Richards]

I highly suggest checking out your local library for business resources- mine has free classes on everything from production mediums to customer acquisition and all the classes are also EXCELLENT networking resources (your top way of acquiring new customer arenas)

Other resources for your business building are your local SCORE rep, the SBA and State/county economic development councils. In almost every one of these cases, the counsel does not cost any additional fees (other than your taxes!)

If you have any factors that make your situation fit into a "special or disadvantaged small business" there are TONS of additional resources available (Minority, Disabled, Woman, Veteran, Service Disabled Veteran etc)

I hope this helps
Lawrence

[Gary Hair]

How did you start finding customers.

Join your local Chamber of Commerce and maybe some other networking groups.

[Bill George]

Does your local High School or Community college have short intro classes on starting a business? Usually they are just one day sessions. Believe it or not people judge you on your grammar and spelling when you do hand outs. They also like to see you dressed up like your going to Church and first appearances count. You may do great work, but in a way you need to sell yourself when you present it for showing. BTW did a couple of craft shows here years ago and lesson learned, you can not compete againstb goods from India or China price wise. No matter how nice it is, they compare against the cheap Cr@p. You need to do something personalized or special to your area.

[David Somers]

Junior,

Lawrence is on the money in terms of resources. They are generally excellent ways to get help figuring out your business and getting started, as well as maintaining it after. Check them out!!!

[Junior hall]

David Somers , Bill George , Gary Hair ,Lawrence Richards. I will check into these resources thanks

I once had a repo business back in 2002 of 10 yrs started in in 1993 got out of the business when every tom rick and harry got into it then the prices went down to 250 a car when got into the business it was 575 a car. I went to school to learn how to train police k9's and service dogs. I started the business in 2005 had the business until the economy went to crap back in 2010. I had 402 dogs and 14 employees lost it all thanks to the economy.

[Kev Williams]

Wish I could help but I have no idea how to answer that question...

My engraving business is 50 years old this year, and thanks to my dad and his old Litton work buddies, we have yet to 'find' our first customer.
Virtually every dollar we've ever made came from someone who found us.

I don't wish 'looking for customers' on anyone. Back in '08 when EVERYONE'S business was down, I thought I'd try looking for customers, specifically, I wanted to see if I could sell engraved granite pet memorials. I was able to give exactly 3 of them away. Those who got them loved them. But I never sold one, and I actually couldn't find anyone who'd take a free one after that. My targets were folks I knew (and still know most of them) on other forum boards like this, and I think they didn't want to 'take advantage' of me. But at the same time, no one ever asked to buy one either.

It's tough when you can't even GIVE your product away...

[Scott Marquez]

No offense, but based on all of your posts, you're not even close to being in a position to market your services.
Junior, I have to agee with Ross, I'm not trying to dog pile on you but here is why I feel this way.
Communicating with potential customers is a key to building a client base and in today's world you must be prepared to quickly reply to Emails, and a lot of times using pictures of your past work and explaining how you can do their job will give you what it takes to land that job. I would suggest getting your phone up to date and learn how to post pictures of your work so potential customers can see your capabilities.
Good luck,
Scott

[John Lifer]

I'm in the same situation as you, I've got to join the chambers up here, jus for the contacts. Dress and look good. There is a guy in the area that has done decent pt business,but the way he looks is a big detriment and hindrance to anyone buying from him. I'm not putting anyone down,but just making a business comment. I can look as grubby as Anyone. I think that you have to have generate sales with something that folks will buy. That you have to determine and is the hardest thing to do.

[Junior hall]

Thanks John Lifter.. I will join the Chamber of Commerce.. I do not have a suit and tie but i do have dress clothes...I have had a multi million dollar business in the repo industry and also in training dogs but this laser engraving is one thing that is hard to figure out...

You said it right John finding some thing that people are wanting is the hardest part of this business. I have over 30 thousand different pictures designs from the mega collection books plus my own pictures i have found and still nothing... This is the hardest to figure out what people are interested in..

Where i live at it is the furniture manufacture capital of the world High Point, Lexington, Thomasville, Greensboro, Winston Salem NC...

This is the reason i posted this question. May be i shouldn't have but then again why not. Im still learning. When i stop learning then im dead.. Some people were born knowing every thing there is.

[Tim Bateson]

You don't need a Suit & Tie. You are in the service business (assumption there) not a downtown corner office on the 40th floor.
I'm busier than I'd like to be and my market is a little smaller than yours. Few people ever jump into this business with a long list of clientele. It doesn't happen over night & honestly if it did you wouldn't last 6 months. This business is a massive learning curve. After 9+ years I am still learn something new... and screw up all the time. Those slow years were vital to sustain my current over flow of clients.
The saying "build it, they will come" was very true in my case. Not over night, but after 9 years, 100% of my customers are either return customers or if not they find me. If you are truly good at this a reputation takes time... no shortcuts.
Yes, I've done the Chamber thing, the Businessman group thing, the Charity thing, the advertising and a dozen others. All were a waste of my time.
Listen closely....
1. Web Site - Not world class, but if it has your basic info, you're off to a great start.
---- Drive this website up in the listings - but don't pay for it. Find a way to drive those web site hits up. I won't go as far as reveal my secret to this, but you get the idea.
2. Quality... Quality... Quality
3. Be open to change - What you "think" you are going to do with a laser may or may not be what makes you money.
4. Don't undercharge for your skill and hard work. You have a skill few other do.. charge accordingly.
5. Be careful what you wish for. Success is hard work with long hours and almost no time left over for a life.

[Bert Kemp]

Well I jusst am at a loss for words here.

[Gary Hair]

Well the way the saying goes if you cant say something nice.............

That's a really classless move Bert.

[John Lifer]

Tim, I agree with you and also with Kev, IT TAKES TIME! Nothing in business is fast. And having website should help. Doing GOOD, QUALITY work at a FAIR price sells itself ..... No matter what business you are in. The last company I was with was built 100% by word of mouth. We spent Millions a year externally advertising. TV, Radio, print, having booths on college campus and elsewhere. But really, almost 100% of our customers came in because of what one of their friends told them. Now the adverts helped promote the brand, but it didn't really affect the volume we did. Web and twitter, and facebook didn't help positively either more than just a percent here or there. So making things, selling things generates more sales.

Slowly, but hopefully steadily.

But you have to start somewhere! And keep working at it! Good luck.

[Bert Kemp]

It was and I tried to delete it after I wrote it but it won't delete:(


That's a really classless move Bert.

[Junior hall]

Mr Gary Hair thanks... I am used to the sly comments on here with me and others that are new and still learning this engraving hobby / business. I dont comment on any of it as i am still new and still will always be learning and will not lower my self to others standards .. Some are just born geniuses...

I was told by a older generation, you will never know every thing there is to know and no one has ever walked a minute in your shoes. You will never know as much as me as i have forgotten more about what you will ever know.. Seems to ring true ' scratches my head " at times

I will say this there are some that i have told privately that i look up to them and every time they post some thing i save it to a document as i look up to them. You know who you all are

Thanks Mr Gary Hair

[Bert Kemp]

If your not willing to buy a cheap digital camera to show people your work your not willing to put in the necessary effort to get customers. Seem like you spend money needlessly on materials to try and sell but won't get a cam. You have more excuses to why you won't do stuff but no good reason to do stuff go figure. Over the years I and many other people here have tried to help you, gave you ideas to you what to do and what not to do. Have you listened to anything anyone has said. Based on your recent post I think you just don't pay attention to what people are telling you and your not putting in the effort to succeed. Go back and read just the post and PM from me and tell me honestly that you did those things. You can't, or you wouldn't still be here telling us your a newbie and learning. If you were truly learning you'd be much father along then you are. People are here now giving you advice giving you Ideas on how to get ahead. You have to learn how to make a decent product and how to take a picture to show people. If you can't take a picture and post it here for us to give you advice how do you expect us to help you. Like I've said before I'm a dummy with the laser but I get it after these guys pound it into my head 3 or 4 times. If you recall I have PM you a couple times telling you exactly what to make and how to sell it. Did you ever do what I said. I think not because if you did I know you'd be making money.
ok heres what you do you take pictures of the stuff you make you post ads on crags list, ebay, and all the other internet place that you can sell stuff. You take your stuff to local craft-fares, You setup a table at a busy intersection. Take stuff to a local gift store and ask them to sell it on consignment. If the stuff you make is any good you will sell some. Your not gonna get rich this way but you should make a buck or 2 but most of all you will find out what people want and what they don't want.Yes I'm harsh but how do we get thru? People get on my case all the time, I tell it like it s some people don't like that oh well. Gary just got on me cause I was harsh with you. Hey these guys get on me all the time and when I'm dumb they tell me. The harder they get on me the more I learn. Sometimes its tuff to take but what the hey, it is what it is. Junior I wish you success I really do but you have to really put forth an effort and listen to these guys. Kev, Ross, Gary, Dave's , Mike and Martin they been there done that listen to what they have to say and then do it.



May be so Ross I can not post pictures of the things i have done as i have a camera phone not going to buy another phone again but the camera part is busted. I still have a flip phone. All the people that live around me are elderly in there 60s -70s

Also i have learned and DONE more than since prior to this. I have done several pictures of the same exact things you all have posted just to get a feel for it all and to see if i could do it as well.. It looks the same as the original poster posted

Thanks Ross

[Junior hall]

Bert Kemp You are absolutely right. I do need to get me a new phone with a camera and learn how to work it. I did get one of those disposable cameras that you suggested last year. I did take pictures and posted on Craigslist and even taken the things that i did make to consignment shops and also to the flea market.. I have a file on my computer that just says Bert Kemp folder as well as with several others on the site.. I will try again the things that ive tried and all of you suggested.

I am still new at this as for over 10 months i was with out a laser machine at least every 2 weeks i would come on and look around and copy and past to a new document of what there person said and what others have said..

Bert here is one of the things that has a Bert Kemp folder BERT KEMP SAID...
This is just your folder of Bert Kemp documents i have over 30 other folders with there names of how to do things

i will try things again retry them thanks

TYPES OF WOOD BEST TO LASER ENGRAVE YOU CAN GET THEM AT HOME DEPOT

alder / Maple / poplar / cherry / Baltic birch
( birch ) / poplar today at Home Depot

also try aspen plywood

TO DO COASTER FOR DRINKING GLASSES

I make the all the time. Just shipped an order this morning.

It's all in quality material. Stay away from MDF core Ply. Veneer core is best. Even better is veneer core that's made specifically for lasers.

Check out Boulter Plywood, ask for Chris or Leo and mention Jay from Jumbie Industries sent you.

There are a few things to consider.

1. Clean up is a pain in the butt.
I tend to mask everything with low tack masking tape just to cut down on my resin/smoke clean up. It's a hassle to get the tape up, but a simple piece of acrylic works as a nice scraper.

2. Make sure you clean up the burns on the side.
Nothing is more annoying for a client to pick up a coaster and get black soot all over their hands. I clamp all my coasters together and clean the edges with some rubbing alcohol.

3. Back it with cork.
Protect the customers furniture.PUT THE CORK ON THE BOTTOM OF THE WOOD TO PROTECT FURNITURE

4. Seal it to prevent water damage.
I use osmo. It's food safe, easy to apply, and looks great.

I've been using this technique for a bout a year now and mine stand up to daily abuse. There are some other tricks to make it last longer and look better, but that's all just personal preference.

http://www.boulterplywood.com/
here is the price for it http://www.boulterplywood.com/
here is the link and name of the wood Multi-Layer / Void free Plywood (Baltic Birch)

Amazon carries it. Osmo PolyX. It's not cheap, but the ease of use and quality finish makes up for the expense in time saved.

Bert kemp said to

1) Google "puzzle vector art"

2) Download the one you want to use.

3) Import the one you download into engravelab.

4) Send to laser.

laser engraved wood images

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?235138-Junior-Hall

Those were Oak Ply. 4x8 sheet $23=24 Boxes. Been using Revolution Ply underlayment from Lowe's lately. Nice consistent grain that stains really nice. 4x8 sheet is $13=24 boxes. It's a little thinner 4.5mm so adjust design accordingly. Also buy a caliper. Don't just trust what the material claims. Your joints will be tighter if you actually measure. Some tips: Stain first. (been using Cabot Stain/Sealer. Dries in about 10 min. Light sand after first coat and wipe with tack cloth and do second. Cut to size. Mask. Clamp piece to table as it's usually warped enough to affect cutting. Lase. Leave mask to color fill. Leave mask on when gluing up so the glue doesn't get on your finish. Use rubber bands to clamp.

-----------------------------------

BERT KEMP Junior don't know what Linn is using but you can buy hard board at HD for 10 bucks an 4x8' sheet, thats 32 sq feet and you can build a lot of boxes out of that. Baltic Birch is also inexpensive.
Like I mentioned before buy a cheap point and shoot camera with a u s b hookup to computer and lets see some pictures.
Materials for this box were less then $4 , wood, mirror, hardware, and finish

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?236724-Masking-Coating-Glass-before-Engraving&p=2482260#post2482260

Laser engraving mirrors and drinking glass

The dishwashing liquid trick works on glass mirror quite well. But it has to be dawn brand, and only the blue stuff. The paper towel wet with water on top helps as well. However, use the cheap stuff, you don't want to use the stuff with the pillowing and ridges and this will cause issues. The cheaper the better. If you are going to use wet newspaper, do not use newspaper from liberal media sources, as they are already wet...lol...

Yeah any dish soap works. But trust me on the paper towel. I have found that there is also a difference in quality between glass mirror

-------------------------

I use blank newsprint and a spray bottle with water, making sure you don't have any air bubbles when lasering.
Been doing it this way for 20 years and thousands of glasses, while not completely eliminating the chipping it definitely helps to minimize it.

[Tim Bateson]

Have you considered just being a Service Business & not have any inventory to worry about? No inventory, no sales, Just selling yourself & your skills.

[Bert Kemp]

Junior no need to buy a phone camera get a cheap digital point and shoot from walmart thats good enough. they have tons of them under 100$ and many half way decent for under 50$and most are better then phone cameras anyway

[Bill George]

Junior no need to buy a phone camera get a cheap digital point and shoot from walmart thats good enough. they have tons of them under 100$ and many half way decent for under 50$and most are better then phone cameras anyway

Ditto, a easy to use digital camera is perhaps under $50 and then learn how to get it hooked to your computer and attach to an email if needed. Those are the very basic things you need for starting to market your product and yourself.

[Mayo Pardo]

Junior, you can get a digital camera for under $50.00 at Walmart or Officemax/OfficeDepot.
Ask if they have any clearance digital cameras and you can even find them for less than $30.00.
Any of these that are 5 megapixels or more will be more than sufficient for making photos to put on the internet and for making flyers.
This one currently at Walmart is 16 megapixels and it appears to include the memory card, based on the description. Less than $50.00
https://www.walmart.com/ip/VIVITAR-VS124-RED-16.1-MEGAPIXEL-DIGITAL-CAMERA/39805993#about

A camera like this will probably produce better photos than an average "smart phone" and be easier to get a steady shot.

In my search for not only customers but in products that will sell, I'm now leaning towards making items that can be used for some purpose rather than just for decoration. Clever sayings or images on plaques? Probably Not. On coasters or key rings or puzzles - maybe in the right store or craft show. Images of classic cars on coasters at a car show or auto parts store - maybe... you never know what will sell.

Maybe the local car dealerships need someone to produce custom keytags they can give out to customers who buy a used car?
Maybe those same car dealers would give away an engraved mug with every new car sold? Or an engraved flashlight. What other kinds of businesses give away stuff to customers? Realtors, Optometrists, Dentists, Accountants, Banks, Radio Stations, just get an old Yellow Pages and look through it for ideas on what businesses to contact and think of something you could make and sell to them, that they can give their customers. Then make one and approach the person who buys promotional items. That's just one market for lasered items - the promotional market. It does have lots of competition.

Companies that produce parts or assemblies that need a part number or serial number or some kind of identification engraved on it is another market for laser work.

I heard of one guy who was making custom engraved hall passes for the local high school. I saw someone online that was laser cutting strips of fabric for a local quilting club. You never know...

First I would come up with the WHO and then come up with the WHAT, and then contact them and show them a sample to get their opinion on it so you can start a conversation with them. If they have a favorable opinion like "hey that looks really sharp, how'd you do that?" then you tell them you can produce all kinds of things like this - and the minimum quantity is only XX number of pieces. How many would you like to start out with?

Now I have to get out there and follow my own advice. (I already have a working camera, now I just need the WHO and the WHAT)

[Junior hall]

Thanks Mayo Pardo I will most differently do this. Thanks so much for this AGAIN ANOTHER DOCUMENT TO SAVE THANKS ONCE again Mayo Pardo

[Hal Welke]

Hi Junior
You say most in your area are in their 60's and 70's. Find out where they go for social activities. I made up a bunch of little badges that said "Hello, I'm sorry I can't remember your name either" along with my company name at the bottom and a sticker on the back with phone number etc. Cost me about 11 or 12 cents each to make. Gave them away at a Red Hat conference and walked out with over 70 orders for name badges at $20 a piece.

Get creative and get your butt out in the community - every door has an opportunity behind it. Also remember most seniors don't read Craigs List or eBay because they have enough trouble getting the grandkids email off that infernal computer machine.

Once you get know, the word of mouth advertising is the most powerful you can get - and it keeps on giving (provided your product is decent)

[Ross Moshinsky]

I'm slightly confused why people think a digital camera is key. So much of what is sold on the net is just computer rendered. The vast majority of stock award photos are rendered. A lot of what you see on Etsy and sites like it, are rendered. You don't need to take pictures of your work. You need to be able to supply the people what they want. This is why knowing how to use your machine and the software is far more important than anything else. You can't make money if you can't use the equipment. It's really quite simple.

I'm not a photographer and taking pictures of a lot of my work is damn hard. It's reflective and clear and shows mirror and just a royal pain to photograph. That doesn't mean I don't know how to engrave it and engrave it fairly well.

[Matt McCoy]

... A lot of what you see on Etsy and sites like it, are rendered. You don't need to take pictures of your work.

I don't think this is correct -- for Etsy.

https://www.etsy.com/help/article/6128
(https://www.etsy.com/help/article/6128)

[Ross Moshinsky]

I don't think this is correct -- for Etsy.

https://www.etsy.com/help/article/6128
(https://www.etsy.com/help/article/6128)

Etsy can write whatever they want. Go on the site and search around. A good number of "engraved" items are computer renderings. I literally typed in "engraved glass" and the first offering is rendered. A lot of the offerings on there are rendered. It's just a simple fact of life. People render what something is going to look like because it's easy, cheap, doesn't require any photography skills, and the added bonus for some is it allows you to misrepresent the quality you're providing.

[Bert Kemp]

I think if you can't put an actual photo of the item your trying to sell your going to have problems.99% of the people want to see what their getting and if they get something different they want their money back. Taking a picture is not that hard a little reading will give you simple solution to taking pictures of hard subjects AKA mirrors and reflective items, just about anything else is pretty easy. If your going to make mirrors which I do a lot of your going to have to learn how to photograph them its not that hard.:)

[Kev Williams]

I'll tell you why you want your own pictures-- because if your work doesn't perfectly match the 'rendering' offered, you WILL hear about it...

Right now I'm moving from diamond etching alloy trays to fiber etching them-- MY customer is the retailer buying and reselling the trays, THEIR customers are the tray buyers. MY customer says "I like it, just do it". I've sent MY customer several pictures of the actual laser engraving of my current order to show THEIR customers. They haven't, and I just keep getting told "just do it"... We're talking $10k worth of retail sales here, and if THEIR customers start in with "but- these don't look like the last ones"... Then what? At least I tried...

Here's someone else's image of anodized laser etching...

346730

Now, can I make my etching look just like this? You bet--- but can YOU? :D


This is MY work. A panel that was brought to me to work from, and my replacment.
346731346732

--which is a better indication of what I'll actually provide? :)

Stock photos are fine for getting the basic idea across, but you NEED to show off your actual work...
Just my http://www.engraver1.com/gifs/2cents.gif

[Bill George]

I have posted on Etsy and I take my own photos. If you can't do photos get someone who can. Using a stock photo will get you in trouble a lot of time unless you just deal with walk in customers.

[Matt McCoy]

Etsy can write whatever they want. Go on the site and search around. A good number of "engraved" items are computer renderings. I literally typed in "engraved glass" and the first offering is rendered. A lot of the offerings on there are rendered. It's just a simple fact of life. People render what something is going to look like because it's easy, cheap, doesn't require any photography skills, and the added bonus for some is it allows you to misrepresent the quality you're providing.

Yes, they can write whatever they want. It's called the Terms of Service for using their marketplace. If your advice is to not abide by the TOS of the site because you believe it is better to not invest in a modest camera and have your own photos, then I'm going to have to disagree with you. A picture is worth a thousand words and good photos are universally the best-practice recommendation for selling things on the internet, especially if you want to be successful at it. Pro-grade photos not only make your product look its best, but also reflects well on the credibility and professionalism of your business. One might get away with rendered products for a while, but you might miss out on lucrative opportunities to have your products appear in magazines, Editor's Picks, influential blogs, gift guides, and other valuable media.