Navy blue/black honing stone.

[Stewie Simpson]

Recent purchase from the uk. This natural stone was in fairly rough condition when I received it. Concavity on both flats with reasonably deep grooves suggesting it had been used at some stage with narrow chisels and/or a variety of carving chisels. Stone measures 20cm x 5.5cm x 2.5cm. Its of medium hardness close to 8000 grit, and exhibits an off white to brown slurry. It reminds me a lot of a modern mined German Muller stone, but of a much earlier period in time. Its possibly a Blue Thuringian. https://www.griffithshavinggoods.com/collections/razor-honing-stones/products/vintage-cased-blue-thuringian-water-razor-hone-whetstone?variant=25756010056

The following photo shows the colour after being freshly flattened with sic 280.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0259_zpsedeggcg9.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0259_zpsedeggcg9.jpg.html)

The next photo shows the colour of the stone after 24 hrs of being flattened. (Same colour as originally received).

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0269_zpsitqiuwx5.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0269_zpsitqiuwx5.jpg.html)

The final photo shows the stones slurry after been worked with a chisel.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0260_zpsy6jdxao6.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0260_zpsy6jdxao6.jpg.html)

I should make mention that the lubricant used is water. Another feature of this stone is that if not enough water is maintained on the top surface of the stone, the stones surface if prone to fine scratches when the pressure applied by the cutting edge of the tool is not kept even. Not a big deal as these scratches can be later removed by rubbing the surface on a float glass of 400 grit wet & dry, but it does emphasize that some stones are more prone to a higher maintenance than others based on their surface hardness.

Stewie;

[Phil Mueller]

As found on the internet:

The Original Escher Stone, as well as the new Thuringian hone, are known by straight edge razor shavers as the ultimate razor honing stone. It is used as the final hone after shaping and sharpening the blade with man-made or natural abrasives that produce a wire-edge, or burr, in the fashion of a saw-toothed like serrated line.


Also used for ritual slaughtering knives, or for improving the edge of any knife.


The composition of the stone, quartz powder embedded in chalk, gives it its slurry activity. You can either rub a small sister stone over the surface to quickly raise an active quantity of dust, then add water and you have a slurry, which some users prefer; or use without a slurry, just whetting the surface of the stone, and you will get an even more incredible fineness of edge with just a few strokes.

I do hope you are leaning towards the latter use stated above.

[John Walkowiak]

Hi Stewie, I believe this stone is also called a Belgian Blue. It is a much sought after stone for those that collect and use straight razors. It was also used for sharpening surgical scalpels. It's a good one! I used one years ago, now I use the XX fine, 8000 grit diamond stone in its place.



Recent purchase from the uk. This natural stone was in fairly rough condition when I received it. Concavity on both flats with reasonably deep grooves suggesting it had been used at some stage with narrow chisels and/or a variety of carving chisels. Stone measures 20cm x 5.5cm x 2.5cm. Its of medium hardness close to 8000 grit, and exhibits an off white to brown slurry. It reminds me a lot of a modern mined German Muller stone, but of a much earlier period in time. Its possibly a Blue Thuringian. https://www.griffithshavinggoods.com/collections/razor-honing-stones/products/vintage-cased-blue-thuringian-water-razor-hone-whetstone?variant=25756010056

The following photo shows the colour after being freshly flattened with sic 280.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0259_zpsedeggcg9.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0259_zpsedeggcg9.jpg.html)

The next photo shows the colour of the stone after 24 hrs of being flattened. (Same colour as originally received).

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0269_zpsitqiuwx5.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0269_zpsitqiuwx5.jpg.html)

The final photo shows the stones slurry after been worked with a chisel.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0260_zpsy6jdxao6.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0260_zpsy6jdxao6.jpg.html)

I should make mention that the lubricant used is water. Another feature of this stone is that if not enough water is maintained on the top surface of the stone, the stones surface if prone to fine scratches when the pressure applied by the cutting edge of the tool is not kept even. Not a big deal as these scratches can be later removed by rubbing the surface on a float glass of 400 grit wet & dry, but it does emphasize that some stones are more prone to a higher maintenance than others based on their surface hardness.

Stewie;

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Phil; I believe the later is aligned with Jewish tradition. (refer to the attachment in post #5.)

Stewie;

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi John; haven't heard from you for a while. Would be getting back to my days of making toothing planes.


I have some doubts this stone is a Belgium Blue, but you may find the following attachment of interest. http://bosq.home.xs4all.nl/info%2020m/grinding_and_honing_part_4_belgian_whetstones.pdf

regards Stewie;

[Stewie Simpson]

The following is another natural stone that's just been re-flattened. Measuring 18cm x 4cm x 1.2cm, its size is more reflective of a razor hone. Both sides have severe undulation suggesting that the parameters needed within honing a razor are somewhat different to that required within sharpening woodwork tools.

Both flat surfaces prior to being flattening with 280 sic.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0266_zpsavwidus6.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0266_zpsavwidus6.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0267_zpsyvfu4o0l.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0267_zpsyvfu4o0l.jpg.html)

After flattening has been completed, the natural features within the stone become much more visible. Its most likely a Welsh Llyn Idwell Grecian Hone. I haven't had time to attempt to grade its grit, but it certainly feels to the touch like an excellent finishing stone.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0268_zpsbs2xdlqc.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0268_zpsbs2xdlqc.jpg.html)

Stewie;

[Mel Fulks]

Stewie, I think that one is a Water Of Ayr razor hone from Scotland. Compare it to google photos. In some old info I read that the dark small spots were referred to as "merl" ,or was it "mirl"? Anyway one of those was a name for a type of Scottish blackbird. That was from some 1880s info. It is not quite as fine as the thurrys ,but is one of the better hones.

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Mel; sounds like your referring to the Water of Ayr - Meikledale quarry, or the Dark Blue Water of Ayr - Enterkine quarry. If you scroll down to Scotland within the following attachment there is a fair bit of info on Water of Ayr honing stones. https://bosq.home.xs4all.nl/info%2020m/grinding_and_honing_part_3.pdf

regards Stewie;

[Mel Fulks]

Stewie, glad you put up that stone site, have looked at it from time to time and it is quite good. You might already be aware from it that there were two stones called Water Of Ayr at different times. I'm convinced that the one you showed is the one currently known as Water Of Ayr.

[Allan Speers]

"The next photo shows the colour of the stone after 24 hrs of being flattened."


Twenty four hours? :eek:



How exactly do you do this? I'm really curious about the procedure.

I'm guessing it's not a large scary sharp setup plus the complete DVD set of The Sopranos." :o

[Patrick Chase]

"The next photo shows the colour of the stone after 24 hrs of being flattened."

Twenty four hours? :eek:

How exactly do you do this? I'm really curious about the procedure.

I'm guessing it's not a large scary sharp setup plus the complete DVD set of The Sopranos." :o

More like "Stewie's ragin' heavy metal / industrial mixtape" and a 5-pound bag of loose SiC.

24 straight hours of flattening sounds to me like a required portion of the syllabus at the Guantanamo School of Fine Woodworking.

[Stewie Simpson]

Stewie, glad you put up that stone site, have looked at it from time to time and it is quite good. You might already be aware from it that there were two stones called Water Of Ayr at different times. I'm convinced that the one you showed is the one currently known as Water Of Ayr.

Hi Mel; the stone in question does not show the distinctive black spots of a Water of Air. From that time the name "Water of

Ayr" should be reserved for the finer and scarcer dark stone
with black spots.
Water or the Ayr (WOA) gives a very fine cut and the grain
size is in the range of 9000 to 11,000.
The Water of Ayr is charcoal-gray to black and looks
homogenous. It looks and feels like a black Escher.
Traditionally it was for razors and scalpels.
It is rated as "very fine" by the company and in my
experience it is similar to the Coticule and Chinese 12K.
During the honing it feels silky soft. The slate-gray "Water
of Ayr" stone is very hard to find. It is finer than the TOS
and especially perfect suitable for sharpening razors.

[Stewie Simpson]

"The next photo shows the colour of the stone after 24 hrs of being flattened."

Allan & Patrick; I note that clarification is required. 24 hrs after the stone had been flattened, the stone's colour had changed. The process of flattening the 2 primary surfaces of the stone took 30 - 40 min.

Stewie;

[Patrick Chase]

Allan & Patrick; I note that clarification is required. 24 hrs after the stone had been flattened, the stone's colour had changed. The process of flattening the 2 primary surfaces of the stone took 30 - 40 min.

Stewie;

I understood that, and I think Allan did too. One should never pass up an opportunity for bad jokes, though.

[Mel Fulks]

The stone does ,in your photos,show spots. I think the description "black spots" basicly means dark spots. The markings of the water of Ayr consist of at least two kinds. The swirl patterns that make them look liquid, and the spots. I don't know of any other stone that could reasonably confused with WOA. A piece of plaster painted black could ,in a photo, be easily interpreted as a hard black Arkansas stone. But only a WOA stone looks like a WOA. The WOA is also quite fine cutting. Please look at Google photos to view a good number of examples. Sounds like you got a good buy there!

[Stewie Simpson]

Mel; can you post photo's or provide the link of the WOA with the swirl patterns.

Stewie;

[Stewie Simpson]

Mel; the following shows some Scottish dual hones. The lighter side is TOS, and the darker side is WOA. http://straightrazorplace.com/hones/129593-scotch-hone-quiz-2.html

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8693/29808529571_9d91ea0984_b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8380/29891717515_69499e0903_b.jpg

[Stewie Simpson]

Trying to identify a Natural Honing Stone based solely on its colour and grain pattern can be very difficult. The colour of its slurry, its workability, and its likely grit range may also play an important role. There is also the potential that the stone in question was not actually mined within the country it was purchased from.

The following is a sample of U.K mined honing stones.

Nos. 1 & 7. Dalmore Blue.

Nos. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, & 12. Tam o"Shanter.

Nos. 10 & 13. Water of Ayr. (No. 10 would now be classified as a Tam o"Shanter)

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5608/29762863922_f417f3b82c_b.jpg

[george wilson]

Water of Ayr and Tam O' Shanter sticks were
used by silver smiths as an abrasive stick. They were often about 1/4" square and 4" long,to smooth surfaces in corners and around things like handles and spouts,where solder would be seen after attaching them.

I have several,up to about 5/8" square. But,I gave most of them away to a working silversmith friend. You can't get them any more,as far as I know. But,I haven't been seeking them. I think they quit making them in the 1980's.

In fact,there is a little "museum" somewhere in Scotland showing how these stones were sawn up,etc. There are SCADS of sawn stones laying on the benches. I WISH I could get some of those!! Maybe someone else will start making the stones again. We can only hope. So many tools and materials used by all kinds of craftsmen have stopped being made.

For example: If you want a GOOD manual lathe,and don't want something made in China,you are practically forced to buy a 50+ year old American or European made lathe,and rebuild it,without parts being available,for the most part. And,getting the bed reground is a very expensive proposition.

[Mel Fulks]

Stewie, you are forcing me to admit I don't know how to post pics!! I just google "see photos of Water Of Ayr razor hones", some of the stones are shown with the original labeled boxes. WOA is a hard stone that is usually not slurried. The fineness can be close to thurrys and that will probably ultimately convince you. If you google "water of ayr " stone used to sharpen microtomes there is an article from around 1900 reccomending them for that purpose.

[Stewie Simpson]

Mel; there is another possible lead to the identity of the darker stone;

Waraho Water Razor Hone
Dark, charcoal black coloured hone. Very similiar in feel to Thuringen stones. The box reads, "This Hone has been produced to meet the demand for an inexpensive yet effective Hone." Made in Great Britain, exact origin unknown. http://straightrazorplace.com/hones/42502-catalogue-hones-based-area-origin.html


from the first look its seems not be like thuringian Material, slurry is darker nearly brown/blackish..

http://straightrazorplace.com/hones/38201-waraho-water-razor-hone-2.html