Old American made jointer question

[Larry Feltner]

I currently have a Grizzly 8" jointer. It works fine, but I have always loved those old American machines from the 40's and 50's. I am thinking about looking around for an old 12" - 16" American made jointer. I don't know much about restoring them, but I may do it anyway. I know they all run on three phase power, so I will need VFD to run it. I don't know much about that either. The question I have, since I don't know that much about them, is what machines are the best ones to purchase if you can find them? Over the years, I have seen old Northfield, Crescent, Oliver, etc. jointers for sale. I'm not sure which machines are better than others and what to look for when buying. Are some easier to adjust and change the blades than others? Are some fences better than others? Were they all pretty high quality machines, or were some brands considered lower quality back then? Any information and opinions on these old machines would be very much appreciated. I would like to educate myself a little and narrow it down before I think about actually looking for one.

[John C Bush]

Check out the OWWM forum. Lots of info you are looking for and amazing amount of talent/knowledge about all things "old arn"

[Cary Falk]

I don't know anything about specific brands but stay away from square and clam shell heads. A lot of old jointers have babbit bearings that have to be poured.

[Andrew Hughes]

I think Joints made by Oliver are the best.But that's because I have one.:)
I think you should look at what's available in your area then research it at quick as possible before its sold.
In my area there are two Med duty Northfeilds for sale.

[Van Huskey]

I would personally look for Oliver, Clement, American, Newman, Northfield and my personal favorite a Porter. I have a Northfield because it is what I found cheap in great shape when I was looking. The cool thing about Northfield is since they still build them parts are a non-issue (but I am not saying they are cheap) and you can get support by simply calling Jeff @ Northfield. I prefer the direct drive jointers BUT if things go bad in the motor it can get expensive quick and it isn;t like you can just bolt on some Craig's List motor. While I said I like Olivers and I do their 4 leg design is their weakness though their execution was good. The Olivers and Northfields I would avoid are the patternmakers jointers unless you know what draft is AND need a jointer to make them there is no need to deal with such a complicated beast.

BTW if or I should say when Dave Kumm pops in, if he contradicts anything I say (or anyone else for that matter) listen to Dave, this is his wheelhouse.

[Matt Day]

Based on my experience, educate yourself on OWWM. Just spend time reading through threads on jointers, VFD's etc. There are some great restoration threads that walk you through the process.

I'm just about done with my '56 Northfield 12L.

Search for used ones at school auctions, govdeals, etc.

[Cody Armstrong]

Hi Larry.
I'm in the market for an old jointer myself. This thread could be helpful to you if you haven't read it yet. A lot to wade through but it might answer some of your questions.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?247781-Need-advise-on-pricing-Northfield-jointer

[Jesse Busenitz]

In looking for an old jointer i would personally avoid babit unless you like the extra challenge/maintenance. As far as 3 phs if you get a belt driven jointer, it's just a mater of changing out motors
(had to do that on mine). Definitely check the head style, cracked/fixed castings, and for flat tables. A jointer doesn't have a bunch of moving parts like a planer etc. so there's not a whole lot to go wrong with it.

[Brian W Smith]

Just for the record....

Disassembly and cleanup...with the subsequent OCD on an exact colour match is not machine rebuilding.Not in the least trying to dissuade anyone from old arn,it is worth the effort.Just sayin,the science and art of restoring mating surfaces is more than what may be represented on an internet site.

[Mel Fulks]

Seems like all the mentions of BABBITT are assuming it will need to be replaced. The stuff lasts a long time, if it is ok when you buy the machine ,I don't think you need to worry about re pouring.

[Van Huskey]

Just for the record....

Disassembly and cleanup...with the subsequent OCD on an exact colour match is not machine rebuilding.Not in the least trying to dissuade anyone from old arn,it is worth the effort.Just sayin,the science and art of restoring mating surfaces is more than what may be represented on an internet site.

Absolutely, it is one reason one needs to spend a little time to determine if a machine needs more than some paint and bearings. The good thing about machines in the current market is many of them are taken out of service because they have been rendered obsolete by CNC etc and not because they are worn out and beyond reasonable repair.

[Matt Day]

Just for the record....

Disassembly and cleanup...with the subsequent OCD on an exact colour match is not machine rebuilding.Not in the least trying to dissuade anyone from old arn,it is worth the effort.Just sayin,the science and art of restoring mating surfaces is more than what may be represented on an internet site.

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at. What about old beat up and corroded machines that need new bearings, motor overhaul, etc? Does that count?

[Larry Feltner]

One thing I am curious about that I forgot to ask about is how do people generally load, transport, and unload the machines when they purchase them? I assume you would need to disassemble the machine to a certain degree in order to move it. My understanding is that they weigh 1,500 to 2,000 pounds. That makes me a little nervous.

[David Kumm]

Larry, condition is more important than brand if you stay with Van's choices. The Oliver design is not really and issue, especially with the smaller 12-16" machines. The 30-36" can rack on uneven surfaces but the smaller ones won't. You need to make sure the tables are flat and the motor good. Oliver has some minor quirks that make me like the Porter better but if you find an Oliver 166, don't let that stop you. ( Easy for me to say because i have one to sell. ) A direct drive motor is supported by the spindle head, sometimes with no outboard bearing support of the rotor . Moaks for instance can be a pain if banged out of adjustment. I know very little about them but there are complete threads on owwm.org.

Although jointers are simple machines, everything is heavy so you need pallet jacks, engine hoists or a forklift to make teardown and rebuild safe and easy. Look for a machine that is plug and play. You can always decide to make it better, but trying to restore a sad shape machine on your first try is depressing and expensive. Don't let this discourage you, just be careful and don't think 500-1000 will get you what you want. Keep in mind these machines would cost 15-20K now so be prepared to spend 2500-5000.

If you know nothing about vfds, go over to canadianwoodworking.org and get in contact with Jack Forsberg. He is importing and selling vfds, single to three phase, for less than I've seen and will program them to your machine if you give him the motor plate specs. He will show you how to bypass the magnetic starter and use the start stop buttons to run the vfd instead. The vfd should be ordered with enough brake capacity to stop your head in a few seconds. A direct drive jointer will run forever without a brake.

Good luck, Dave

[Van Huskey]

He will show you how to bypass the magnetic starter and use the start stop buttons to run the vfd instead. The vfd should be ordered with enough brake capacity to stop your head in a few seconds. A direct drive jointer will run forever without a brake.

Good luck, Dave

One thing I really liked about the Northfield I bought was it had a stock handbrake with micro-switch so I wired the microswitch into the VFD so I can shut the machine off and stop it with one hand still on the work piece. I overpaid for it in some peoples minds I would guess but it was a late 70s machine that only saw high school shop duty but several people in the auction wanted it and several others of the same model saw the gavel for much less, we were all apparently waiting on that one. I basically paid for a turn key version of exactly what I wanted and haven't regretted it. Though I kinda do wish I had made the trip and got the 166 and 299 from you...

[David Kumm]

I sold the 299 and replaced it with a SAC Tersa 530. Easier to move around but still a heavy build for a steel based Euro machine. The new planers are nicer in some ways but built nothing like the old. Tersa is a big deal though. Dave

[Matt Day]

My 12" at 1150lb is small compared to some of the machines talked about here, but I disassembled it onsite and loaded each piece onto my trailer. The pieces were between 100 and 300 pounds - easily moved by one or two people.

Do some homework on your questions. The answers are easily found on OWWM and here.

I didn't know Jack was selling VFD's. I would have probably bought from him if I had known.

[David Kumm]

Jack quoted me about $275 for a 5 hp single to three phase plus shipping and fees ( he is in Canada ) so all in you might be at 350 USD. A neat thing is he sells keypads for about $30 so you can program each pad for a certain machine and use the vfd for more than one machine without dilly dipping into the programming. Dave