SuperMax or PowerMatic sander?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I am building some raised panel doors. They are wide enough I had to glue up the panels.

As I began sanding them, I decided maybe I need to invest in a drum sander.

If you were considering a PM2244 or a SuperMax 2550, which one would you prefer and why?

[Larry Frank]

I do not have either but looking to get one and read every thread I can about them. Everything I have read tells me that the Supermax has many fans and eventually I will purchase one.

[Cary Falk]

I moved from a Grizzly 18/36 to a Supermax 25-50. I never looked at the Powermatic but comparing the Supermax to the Jet, Supermax was the clear winner,

[Van Huskey]

I haven't used any of the newer Supermax sanders and like the Powermatic I have only played with them in a showroom. I have to say it would be a tough choice. The Powermatic has the aesthetic and bells and whistles vote and "appears" a little heavier built but Supermax has the longer lineage in this tool class. For me the Powermatic 5 year warranty (vs 2 year) would be a big positive but IIRC you said in the past you live outside of the area where PM will send a technician. Keeping that in mind I think the Supermax is the safer bet, cantilever sanders have been their bread and butter for a long time.

I am assuming you have ruled out the Woodmaster sanders on price.

[Bradley Gray]

I have an older Supermax 25" dual drum and like it

[Jebediah Eckert]

I do not have either but looking to get one and read every thread I can about them. Everything I have read tells me that the Supermax has many fans and eventually I will purchase one.

I am in the same spot. Best I can tell the PM is about 25% more costly. Van brings up a good point on warranty, and it sure does look beefier. I wonder if that can be had with th 10% (or 15% I can't remember) sale PM seem to run once or maybe even twice a year. I was hoping there would be more people posting that had either one.

[Michael Koons]

Does Supermax still make the 37" single drum? I've seen references to it in their manuals but can't find it on their website.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Michael,

Like you, I don't see a single drum 37" listed.

[bruce buren]

I bought a 25-50 supermax this spring and it is a very nice, well built machine. No experience with PM

[Chris Fournier]

I bought a Performax 22/44 over 20 years ago (now Supermax). I have replaced one drive belt and reworked the pressure rollers to suit my needs; the machine has been flawless. This machine has paid for itself many times over. As a guitar maker it really came in handy, panels like you have on your hands would be a snap.

These are not heavy duty machines, they are not like planers. They flex, you can get a sort of snipe as well. Correct feed speeds and cutting depths are critcal to getting uniformly flat panels. I use 60 grit for the most part and may pop up to 100 then RO sanding to finish.

Mine was made in the USA and that was a big factor in my purchase decision, I chose well!

[Michael Koons]

Michael,

Like you, I don't see a single drum 37" listed.

Ken,

I asked Supermax and they basically said that they can still make it but they pulled it from their line because the cost was so close to the double drum. Cost aside, I probably would have preferred the single drum as I will mostly be using it to clean up resaw marks and general flattening of large panels. I guess I'll just use the double drum and save one sanding step if I go down that route.

[Van Huskey]

Mine was made in the USA and that was a big factor in my purchase decision, I chose well!

Speaking of that does anyone know where the line is drawn between the ones made in the US and one that are not currently?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ken,

I asked Supermax and they basically said that they can still make it but they pulled it from their line because the cost was so close to the double drum. Cost aside, I probably would have preferred the single drum as I will mostly be using it to clean up resaw marks and general flattening of large panels. I guess I'll just use the double drum and save one sanding step if I go down that route.

Michael,

If you read the owners manual, the dual drum unit can be operated as a single drum unit and you can elect to use the front drum or the rear drum independently.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Speaking of that does anyone know where the line is drawn between the ones made in the US and one that are not currently?

Van,

If you look at the brochure for a specific model, at the bottom it will tell you where it is made. One example I just looked at indicated the 25" and 37" models were made in Taiwan to SuperMax specifications and the 50" model was made in the US. So, you have to look at the brochure for each product line.

[Michael Koons]

Problem solved! (At least my problem) :)

Thanks for that Ken.

[Bill McNiel]

Ken,
I bought a "used" 25/50 SuperMax a couple of years ago and LOVE it after doing way too much research and analysis. It has many more uses than I ever thought of before it entered my shop. Paper changes are easy (IMHO), drive belt tracks straight, great dust collection, variable speed control actually functions well and it really does its job beautifully without complaining.

Don't get the base, it has absolutely minimal storage capacity and all 4 wheels are straight line. Build your own base. Get the table extensions.

Do a search here for the multiple threads on SuperMax. You will not regret adding this tool to your shop.

Regards - Bill

[mreza Salav]

I have the Supermax 2x37 (Made in USA) and has been fine. I wouldn't give it a perfect score as I think it has some design flaws and I have mentioned it in a few places.
The gear system for elevation is a soft alloy and the set-screw holding it doesn't have enough holding power. Have no experience with the Powermatic.
I bought mine used (in near new conditions) but overall I expected more from a USA made machine especially at that price point.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

If I were you, I'd drive over to Bellingham and get the cheapest Wide Belt they offer. You won't regret it.

[Van Huskey]

So, you have to look at the brochure for each product line.

I see now, thanks, I didn't think to open the brochure.

[Van Huskey]

If I were you, I'd drive over to Bellingham and get the cheapest Wide Belt they offer. You won't regret it.

Given the size range he seems to be shopping you are in the 8k+ range and likely (well) over $10k. Given he didn't mention Woodmaster DS my guess is he wants to stay in the $2.5k and under range, but I could be wrong.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Given the size range he seems to be shopping you are in the 8k+ range and likely (well) over $10k. Given he didn't mention Woodmaster DS my guess is he wants to stay in the $2.5k and under range, but I could be wrong.

You are correct.

[Cary Falk]

I don't think the base is optional on the 25-50. I will agree that the base doesn't have a lot of storage but the indeed and out feed tables fit in there. I have yet to use them. I hate the straight wheels so mine is on a mobile base of my making.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Ken
The base on the 25/50 took half my shop.
Cantilever 25 inches? No way. Nothing parallel with anything harder than balsa wood.
I had three drum sanders before I bit the bullet for a wide belt.
For another grand, the 15" open end machine in Bellingham will be your last.

[Van Huskey]

For another grand, the 15" open end machine in Bellingham will be your last.

I assume you mean the Bellingham Craig's List since I doubt you will find it at Grizzly.

[Cary Falk]

[QUOTE=Mike Hollingsworth;2618089]Ken
Cantilever 25 inches? No way. Nothing parallel with anything harder than balsa wood.
QUOTE]

Say What???? I don't have any problems with mine with maple or oak. It's not a planer.

[Robin Frierson]

I don't think grizzly offers the 15 inch anymore. I seem to recall it was in the $4000 range though. They have one for sale around here for 4000 right now. It's a pity that the budget doesn't allow for the Woodmaster drum sander. I've looked at them all and to me that's the best DS. I've owned two of them. Trying to decide if I have room for one now in my new small shop.

[Jebediah Eckert]

It looks like the Woodmaster 26" is on sale for $3,100 with free shipping, digital readout, and sandpaper. That brings that one closer to the PM2244 but still probably pushing it out of range.

It's soooo easy to get get things incrementally out of hand. Probably took a bit of thought to get comfortable with a Supermax 19-38 for $1,400 or so. May as well go bigger and not regret it, in comes the 25-50, wow the PM2244 got good reviews, easy setup, beefy, better warranty........now the 26" WoodMaster...........heck your there, may as go a bit wider so you don't regret needing it someday (remember it's always cheapest to buy s tool once), and the climb continues :eek::eek::D. That's usually my thought process anyhow. Luckily I get to the point of "ridiculous" and end up at the beginning again, I'm just not there yet.

Mike's brutally negative comment with his experience makes it tougher for sure, most everyone I have read so far seemed happy with the Supermax and the PM? I don't even use Balsa wood !:confused:

[Van Huskey]

It's soooo easy to get get things incrementally out of hand.

It is the internet forum's raison d'etre it would seem. It is easy to start plannning to cut a block of wood and buy some sandpaper and sand a board and the next thing you know you are thinking about taking out a second mortgage and selling your first born to buy a 64" Time Saver 5300 widebelt and you realize you are looking at a sander with more horsepower than your car. Is the Supermax or PM a perfect machine, no, but then neither is a $20K widebelt since there is a $100K widebelt that is better. Everyone has a budget and a set of needs and those have to be balanced, thousands of people get good results from catilevered drum sanders and while they can be a little frustrating at times and individual machines require you to "get to know them" they are usually a great addition to a persons shop.

As an aside the Woodmaster drum sanders have been "on sale" continuously for as long as I can rememeber, I have never known them NOT to be on sale.

In the end drum sanders are not abrasive planers and if the use and expectations are in line with a drum sander there will be no acid reflux.

[Jebediah Eckert]

From a sheet of sandpaper to a wide belt.............haha so true

[glenn bradley]

Cantilever 25 inches? No way. Nothing parallel with anything harder than balsa wood.


Say What???? I don't have any problems with mine with maple or oak. It's not a planer.

This is one of those things where individual experience is reported. We are asked for our opinions and our opinions are based on our experiences. Otherwise we are presenting, as opinions, our thoughts on what we think might be ;-)

There is certainly a long history of reported problems with many open-end sanders out there. My experiences with three different colors of paint fueled my decision when I made the move to a wide sander. The Supermax 19/38 is smaller than the one Ken seeks but, has served me well.

The Supermax design has never required adjustment since I set it up and I can sand down to veneer thicknesses without issue. One of the things that makes this design so popular is that it eliminated a lot of those issues that have historically affected this style of machine.

Weight is a questionable quality measure but, the PM outweighs the SM by a fair amount. It also has a fair amount of cowling and style elements that do not affect performance; it does look pretty cool though.

[John C Bush]

Hi Ken,
I have the Supermax Sandpro 25 closed end drum sander and have been happy with it's performance. You can't be in a hurry or get greedy trying to remove too much material but you can get good, uniform surfaces. I have found that 120-150max grit, then finishing with a ROS works the best. The Sandsmart feed control system is a must and I assume it is included in other sanders at this $$ point. The base has swivel lock casters and moves easily, DC works well, and haven't had any mechanical problems. Haven't used the PM version for comparison but the SuperMax has been a good choice for my shop. Good luck shopping.

[Van Huskey]

It also has a fair amount of cowling and style elements that do not affect performance; it does look pretty cool though.

IMO Powermatic has given more emphasis to visual appeal than any other manufacturer in the last 10 years or so, for some it means nothing but I like to work with visually appealing machines/tools. This is a shift from earlier PM machines, while I agree the PM81 20" BS is a better machine than the Delta 20-350 I own a Delta instead since while the PM81 has all the looks of an industrial box the Delta has some of the Art Deco design from the earlier cast iron saws, it just makes me smile when I walk up to it. Maybe I do better work when I am smiling?

That said while I like the look of the PM better and never shun mass in a machine I feel more comfortable telling someone else to choose the Supermax, they have been doing these types of machines for longer and have a great rep and the PM doesn't have a lot of user feedback. If I was spending my own money I might choose the Powermatic but in the same way I might buy a BMW but recommend a Lexus.

[John Sincerbeaux]

I've owned a 25" dbl drum sander. I can think of no other machine more useless than a drum sander.
IMO they are fundementally flawed machines. Drums get hot...real hot. So every piece you feed through a drum sander, you will be very aware of burning the wood AND the sandpaper on the drum. To combat this you can on

[Van Huskey]

I've owned a 25" dbl drum sander. I can think of no other machine more useless than a drum sander.
IMO they are fundementally flawed machines. Drums get hot...real hot. So every piece you feed through a drum sander, you will be very aware of burning the wood AND the sandpaper on the drum. To combat this you can on

It is like watching a movie getting to the good part and finding out the Bluray is scratched...

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Only drum Sander I've seen that worked worth a darn was a giant cast iron 4 drum machine that OSCILLATED. That's the key that handles the build up of heat. If not you will be constantly burning a spot in your 6 feet of sandpaper that takes ten minutes to change.
Just my experience after three Performax machines, hoping each upgrade would solve the burned sandpaper issue. NOT!

[Van Huskey]

Only drum Sander I've seen that worked worth a darn was a giant cast iron 4 drum machine that OSCILLATED. That's the key that handles the build up of heat. If not you will be constantly burning a spot in your 6 feet of sandpaper that takes ten minutes to change.
Just my experience after three Performax machines, hoping each upgrade would solve the burned sandpaper issue. NOT!

Oscillations only goal on wide stock is to prevent a linear sanding pattern. Oscillation actually increases the actual abrasive to surface speed, so all other things equal heat produced will increase. Oscillation can reduce abrasive temps where the stroke is nearly as large or larger than the width of the stock but that is almost never the case for items run through a DS or WBS.

The key with a DS is simply treating it as a DS if you treat it like a WBS or abrasive planer you will have poor results, a quality DS, setup properly and used properly will do its job, ask to do more and it will fail.

[glenn bradley]

Maybe I do better work when I am smiling?

Too true. Some machines just look too cool ;-) I work on a University campus and come across lost treasures now and then. I am always stopped in my tracks when I see a machine that has "that look". Here's one I stumbled on in an old pump room behind one of the older buildings . . . aw man! Can't find it. I'll be back ;-)

Ah . . . found it.

346618

Now I have no use for such a machine but, I grabbed the wheel on the tailstock on this 6 foot-plus long monster and gave it a whirl. It spun for several seconds as the tail stock extended out like butter.

[Jebediah Eckert]

The key with a DS is simply treating it as a DS if you treat it like a WBS or abrasive planer you will have poor results, a quality DS, setup properly and used properly will do its job, ask to do more and it will fail.

I have to believe this is the way to think about it. There are just too many people that have a DS and seem to be happy with what it does for them. Certainly not discounting your opinion Mike. I have a few things that I think are pretty useless that others love.

[Robin Frierson]

Heat is a problem with these drum Sanders. The direct drive models turn around 1750 RPM if my memory is right. One of the reasons I like the Woodmaster it is it's a belt driven machine that turns around 750 RPM with a 6 inch steel drum versus a 5 inch aluminum drum.

[Van Huskey]

Heat is a problem with these drum Sanders. The direct drive models turn around 1750 RPM if my memory is right. One of the reasons I like the Woodmaster it is it's a belt driven machine that turns around 750 RPM with a 6 inch steel drum versus a 5 inch aluminum drum.

I didn't want to pollute the thread with WM talk since Ken indicated his budeget was lower but at this point likely all the specific SM and PM voices have likely been heard.

The WM is just in a different class and not sure the exact size Ken needs (between 25 and 50) but a WM 5075 singe drum is over $5k equipped and shipped. It is over 900 pounds of US made goodness though with a 7.5hp motor that is absolutely huge, the first time I saw mine I was amazed. While it does have a slow speed 6" steel drum the heat transfer is reduced by the velcro. Some people question the velcro but I really like it. The paper changes are much faster and you don;t have to fool with that clip plus you can run two different sizes of paper, one on each side if you just need ~24 of width, I have done this many times and generally the way I leave the sander. The velcro also gives a cushion that extends paper life and is more forgiving if you try to take a little too much off. While it certainly isn't a widebelt it didn't cost 20-40K either, need 100 amps of 3 phase power, 10 or so CFM of air and a 10hp cyclone to run.


To Glen, thats a pretty machine. I am a particular fan of the Art Deco influenced machines. The modern PM look has a rounded aesthetic that harkens back the the old cast iron machines.

[John Sincerbeaux]

I've owned a 25" dbl drum sander. I can think of no other machine more useless than a drum sander.
IMO they are fundementally flawed machines. Drums get hot...real hot. So every piece you feed through a drum sander, you will be very aware of burning the wood AND the sandpaper on the drum. To combat this you can on

.... ooops! iPhone sent my post mid-typing.
To combat this, you can only make light passes at slow speeds. Like others have said, there are drum sanders that have large diameter, rubber coated, grooved drums but these type of sanders get very expensive. And you still dont have the cooling of the sandpaper like a wide belt.

If I were the OP, I would take my doors or panels to a local cabinet shop and pay to have them run through a wide belt. Huge money saved! 2nd option, buy a festool rotex sander and sand the doors in 1/4 the time. Still huge savings and you end up with a superior tool. 3rd option (what I did), drop approximately 5-7k on a used 25" wide belt and end up with a machine that actually can sand panels or doors efficiently and quickly. I bought a SAC 25" WB from a one-man shop years ago and it has been an amazing sander.

[Robin Frierson]

Jeez Van Huskey, thats a hell of a machine you got there. 50in, nice......Wish I had room for that one. I started out with a used 26 many yrs ago for $800 that was in rough shape, kept outside under a tarp. The customer service at Woodmaster was great....just called and talked to the guy out in the shop who builds them. They sent me a new part, no questions asked about warranty and walked me through the installation. Just great customer service. I later upgraded to a new 38 which had the big red 5hp motor, cant recall if it was a Baldor or Leeson. Great machine. Like you I like the velcro and find it easy to change sandpaper. Right now I feel lost without the sander, really miss having one. Once I get this shop settled with some storage I hope I can find room for one.

[Dan Kopack]

I have the Supermax 2550, love it!

[Kerry Wright]

Acme is having a site wide 10% off "Trick or Treat" sale. Today only!
I'm pretty sure Supermax is included.

[Van Huskey]

I ran across this discussion of the 22-44 on Thewoodwhisperer. He points out some interesting things about the Powermatic. I think he mentions it but Powermatic is a sponsor of his channel. Over the years all the time being sponsor of his show he has had a Jet (obvious connection and the one he complains about but doesn't mention the name) a Supermax and now the PM2244


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqs1eImfdSk