Need Draw Knife for longbow project

[Pete Hotard]

Thinking about making a Hickory or Osage longbow from a split stave and need suggestions on a good draw knife. I have an old one I found in my grandpa's shop but it is in pretty poor condition as it looks like someone beat the back of it using it to split wood and it also has a pretty gnarly convex back running from handle to handle. I'm sure I could clean it up to at least get the hammer marks out but i'm not sure how to get it straight again. Unfortunately where I live in Baton Rouge, the antique (rust hunt) tool market is pretty bare. I would like to get a solid older knife but i'm also open to suggestions for new ones as well. What have ya'll used that you have liked? I like the idea of a Lie Neilson but i don't think I want to pay $170 for a knife that may be used sparingly after this project.

There are lots of options on Ebay, but does anyone have any suggestions of what to look for? Brands? Features to look out for?

[Prashun Patel]

Sorry I can't offer advice. When you get one and figure out the best way to sharpen it, please report back. I haven't been successful sharpening mine.

[steven c newman]

Have two knives, one straight edged, one curved. Got both rehabbed up. Used them to "turn" square posts into round ones for a rocking chair build.
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They were in bad shape when I got them ( $1 each) so I did abit of rehab..
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Had to flatten the backs, remove the knicks in the edges, then stoned and sand paper to sharpen up. To hold a knife to stone the edge...one handle up by the elbow the other in the left hand, bevel up and pointing to the right. Right hand holds the stone, I usually push the stone away, some go both directions. Just hone the bevel. Any burrs on the flat can be stoned away as well. They just hang on the back of my plane till, may not even need them again..

Oh, and that rocking chair?
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Start up..
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One done. Lathe was too short for the back posts.
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At 48" long. Took a bit of time to do..

[Mel Fulks]

I would buy on Ebay. Old ones are cheap and I've never come across a bad one. Bought one made by a well known 19th century blacksmith from an antique dealer ,and even that was cheap.

[russell lusthaus]

. . . and if you have a band saw, you could probably get by just fine on your longbow build without a draw knife at all. The only harder part would be debarking the stave, and you could find other ways to proceed in that task. You don't want to get too close to back ring with a draw knife anyway - use a spoke shave and scraper when most of the bark has been removed already.

[Pete Hotard]

. . . and if you have a band saw, you could probably get by just fine on your longbow build without a draw knife at all. The only harder part would be debarking the stave, and you could find other ways to proceed in that task. You don't want to get too close to back ring with a draw knife anyway - use a spoke shave and scraper when most of the bark has been removed already.

Don't have a bandsaw, and even If I did, i'm trying to take the Neander approach to this project. Thanks for the advice though

[Luke Dupont]

Traditionally, drawknives are usually not ground entirely flat on the back. There's usually a small convex bevel. The reason for this is that it too easily digs into the wood and cannot take a proper shaving without that small convex/microbevel.

I'd recommend just taking your drawknife to a coarse oil-stone and removing any nicks, while keeping roughly the same geometry.

I like to use Mora's wood splitters as drawknives. They're only $25 or so, if I recall. Unlike a typical drawknife, they are double bevel and do not have a flat side, but they work just fine.

I also find a smoothing plane set up to take thick shavings is quite useful in this kind of work. You can hog off a lot of material quickly and easily even with a plane, contrary to what many people will tell you.

Good luck on your project and give us some pictures as you go! I personally love this kind of thing and have far more interest in bows / tools / instruments than I do in furniture.

[Pete Hotard]

Traditionally, drawknives are usually not ground entirely flat on the back. There's usually a small convex bevel. The reason for this is that it too easily digs into the wood and cannot take a proper shaving without that small convex/microbevel.

I'd recommend just taking your drawknife to a coarse oil-stone and removing any nicks, while keeping roughly the same geometry.

I like to use Mora's wood splitters as drawknives. They're only $25 or so, if I recall. Unlike a typical drawknife, they are double bevel and do not have a flat side, but they work just fine.

I also find a smoothing plane set up to take thick shavings is quite useful in this kind of work. You can hog off a lot of material quickly and easily even with a plane, contrary to what many people will tell you.

Good luck on your project and give us some pictures as you go! I personally love this kind of thing and have far more interest in bows / tools / instruments than I do in furniture.

So are you talking about a convex that runs parallel to the cutting edge or perpendicular? Because the one i have is convex perpendicular to the cutting edge. Basically like someone took it by the handles and bent their hands upwards towards each other.

[Luke Dupont]

So are you talking about a convex that runs parallel to the cutting edge or perpendicular? Because the one i have is convex perpendicular to the cutting edge. Basically like someone took it by the handles and bent their hands upwards towards each other.

Oh. You mean the blade itself is bent, rather than being straight?

I think those are designed with a specific purpose (hollowing out bowls and such?), as I've seen/heard of them before. Someone else is probably more knowledgeable though.

I was referring to convex geometry of the cutting edge as if viewed from a cross section, which I thought is what you were referring to.

I'm assuming you mean that your drawknife looks something like this?

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[Brent Cutshall]

I use an antique, flat drawknife with a convex edge from Swann for any of my drawknife work. Hope you get good at bow-making, I can do flintknapping, make arrows, and most other primitive craft but I've never made a bow I've been satisfied with. Let us know how it goes!

[Glen Canaday]

Hold up. I build bows when I can.

If you are looking to reduce to a single layer in your osage stave, for instance, you WANT dull. You also want the convex back on it if you can swing it. You are looking to split at the pith between growth rings, not cut fibers!

I recommend copies of "The Traditional Bowyer's Bible," (TTBB). There are four volumes in the set. Many items about the topic are covered, including tools.

As for shaping, I start roughing with a hatchet. Some people use broadhatchets or knives or all kinds of stuff. I smooth and surface with a block plane and scraper, and shape handles with a rasp.

[russell lusthaus]

Don't have a bandsaw, and even If I did, i'm trying to take the Neander approach to this project. Thanks for the advice though


Then use an ax. A real neander would use a flint ax. lol.

As to draw knife - - you want the back to be flat and the top to be beveled - - the blade can be straight or convex - I use straight. I would stay away from those blades that are beveled on both sides - no control. As Glen says - many guys like their draw knife to be very dull so as to reduce the chance of digging into and cutting thru the back ring you are chasing. I use mine sharp, but when getting close, turn the blade over so the bevel is face down - this will give you a ton more control and it wont dig in so much - but will also take a much smaller bite. Pay attention to grain orientation. For me, and I make about 2 dozen self bows a year, I only use the draw knife to remove bark and get into the cambium. Any more than that, you are asking for trouble. Remove the cambium with a spoke shave or scraper or even a spoon. That is for white woods. For osage, use the draw knife till you are a ring or two above the one you want, and then switch to scraper or shave. There is no rush - take your time and don't cut thru the ring, and all will be well.

I use a bandsaw to reduce width - but before I had the saw, I used a hand ax.

Russ

[lowell holmes]

I would just sharpen the knife you have and get after it. If that doesn't work, you can still buy a new one. A spoke shave might help as well.
I normally finish up with a shave.

I have two draw knives, one was a beat up freeby and the other moderately priced new one. I can't
tell moch difference between them.

[russell lusthaus]

I would just sharpen the knife you have and get after it.

I agree with this 100%

[steven c newman]

I can send the OP a pair of knives.......that worked just fine for me.

[lowell holmes]

It just occurred to me that Pete may have a scorp instead of a drawknife. If that's the case, he probably needs to buy a draw knife.
Pete, a scorp is used for hollowing out chair seats.

You can also buy them for 15 to 20 dollars at the auction site.

[Luke Dupont]

It just occurred to me that Pete may have a scorp instead of a drawknife. If that's the case, he probably needs to buy a draw knife.
Pete, a scorp is used for hollowing out chair seats.

You can also buy them for 15 to 20 dollars at the auction site.

That's my suspicion as well.

Also, I second the ebay suggestion. You can find excellent vintage tools at good prices.

[lowell holmes]

What I should have said is you can buy draw knives on the auction site.

[george wilson]

There are at least 3 draw knives on "The Best Things" tool site. One is a 9" drawknife and is about $65.00. The others are not real expensive.I suggest you go there and get a vintage tool with decent steel in it for less than you'd pay retail for a new one.

[Bob Glenn]

Be aware there are bevel up and bevel down draw knives as well. A bevel up draw knife is good for following grain, as the flat back doesn't tend to dig into the wood. A bevel down draw knife has the ability to pull out of a cut for shaping, since there is only a small surface of the blade on the wood. The difference is the angle of the handles to the blade. You can use either bevel up or down draw knives either way, however, if you're on the shaving horse for very long, you will know which one works best. Bevel up blades work well dull, but you want a razor sharp edge on a bevel down blade. Your experience will be your guide.

[george wilson]

I have only ever purchased one drawknife: A Keen Kutter I bought used for $1.00 in the 60's. It takes a razor sharp edge and holds it pretty well. I made a miniature sort of draw knife with French type round handles that I've posted here before. Used it on violin necks and other small things. Made it in the 70's.

[Pete Hotard]

That's my suspicion as well.

Also, I second the ebay suggestion. You can find excellent vintage tools at good prices.

It definitely is not a scorp, it is just a bent and mistreated drawknife. ill get to work on it and let ya'll know the outcome

[Mike Holbrook]

I made a long post on dawknives at some point. Peter Galbert is an expert/artist with one. He explains them well in his book "Chairmaker's Notebook'. As the OP has noted, the problem with many of the old drawknives is they often got used to split wood instead of their intended use. They were not designed to be used like a froe or wedge. Unfortunately most of the ones I have bought at auctions have had considerable damage to the blades requiring considerable work to put back into service. Galbert speculates that many blades were made curved simply because it was easier.

Galbert makes a sharpening tool especially for sharpening drawknives for those who may have trouble getting one sharp. He devotes an entire chapter in his book to techniques for sharpening hand tools like dawknives, scorps....

[stevo wis]

I would very much encourage you to use a drawknife. It is a great tool that can hog off a bunch at a time or just take a little when slicing and skewing the blade. I have had good luck with Witherby and James Swan drawknives. Ebay gets about $25-30 for nice knives. Look for solid handles and a blade that is not rusted and pitted too badly.
Also a drawknife has to be really sharp. I polish mine to 8000. There is a lot written about drawknives by Pete Galbert, Curtis Buchanan and others.
Good luck.
Stevo

[Mark Fisher]

A pretty common good drawknife is from Greenlee. I have one I've used on a few projects and it works great. I think I spent about $20 for a good one. I saw and used a Lie Neilsen at a workshop and it seemed fine too, but I'm not an expert.

[Matt Lau]

I'm curious about how people can make a bow with a drawknife, but no spokeshave.
I'm never made a bow, but...an I missing something?

[Pete Hotard]

I'm curious about how people can make a bow with a drawknife, but no spokeshave.
I'm never made a bow, but...an I missing something?
I have a spokeshave, just need a drawknife to hog off the bulk of the material from the stave

[Glen Canaday]

Many woods are strong in tension but not compression, or strong in compression and not tension. The principle use of a drawknife is not to shape the bow, it is to alter the heartwood/sapwood ratio in a particular stave so that the strengths and weaknesses can be equalized.

A bow that is overly strong in tension can develop crysals on the belly at a particular draw weight, and one that is particularly strong in compression can break on the back due to forces exerted at draw length. Think locust for tension strength and pine heartwood for compressive. At the same draw weight, the locust can be crushed when drawing, but the pine can pull apart.

If the amount of sapwood on the back of the bow is reduced so that it does not overpower, or is not overpowered by, the heartwood belly, at a particular draw weight the bow can survive throwing an arrow.

A dull draw knife is normally used to reduce the sapwood on the back by splitting the growth rings at the pith of the spring growth. It is dull in order to avoid cutting through the fibers of the desired ring so as to not weaken the chosen back ring.

[Prashun Patel]

wow, that's fascinating. Thanks, Glen

[Dave Lehnert]

Have a Menards Hardware in your area?
I dont own one but the price is right if money is a concern.
https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/hand-tools/saws-cutting-tools/tool-shop-reg-8-draw-shaver/p-1444421182026-c-9123.htm?tid=6197150545457579303

[steven c newman]

I am sending Pete my two drawknives...one a curved edge, the other a straight edge. He MIGHT have them by Sunday.....

[russell lusthaus]

I'm curious about how people can make a bow with a drawknife, but no spokeshave.

While I do use a spokeshave, most bowyers I know do not. They go from bandsaw, ax or drawknife, to assorted rasps and scrapers.

[steven c newman]

Drawknives have been sent, should be there by Monday's mail. I got cut three times, just wrapping them up in bubble wrap. Barely felt any of them. Be very careful unwrapping them.

[steven c newman]

According to the tracking number, package of two drawknives was delivered today. Might want to check the mailbox?

[Pete Hotard]

Got the two drawknives from Steven today in the mail, they are in great shape, and I can't wait to put them to good use on the bow. It always amazes me the friendliness of people here on SMC!!