Wax ?

[Larry Beyer]

How soon after applying the last coat of varnish to a cabinet can I apply furniture wax?

[Steve Schoene]

It depends on the wax--actually not on the wax but on the solvent that softens the wax. Briwax and Antiquax are said to have a relatively strong solvent and shouldn't be applied to varnish until it is fully cured--a month or two. This may be too conservative and I haven't tested it my self. Those products are billed as having cleaning properties which explains the stronger solvents.

Ordinary Butchers Wax and its ilk are probably safe almost immediately--a few days. But remember since the varnish is not as hard as it will become, take some care with the buffing. Right after finishing is not the time for high speed buffers except for finishing products designed for that application.

[Howard Acheson]

Let me ask why you want to apply a wax? Wax will add no durability or protection to most finishes. And, once you apply wax, you are left with a lifetime job reapplying it to maintain its appearence.

For standard BriWax, wait at least a year. For standard solvent paste waxes like Johnson, Minwax, Butcher's, etc., wait at least 4 weeks.

[Dennis Peacock]

I agree with Howard. I put wax on a piece one time and I just don't have time to keep putting a new wax coat on. So now....I just topcoat, leave off the wax and enjoy. Now...I do wax my cast iron tops in the shop. :rolleyes: ;)

[Steve Schoene]

The reason to wax is basically for appearance. But its hardly a lifetime committment. A quick cleaning with mineral spirits will remove it pretty easily, bringing the finish back to where it started. But no burning need to wax, thats for sure.

[Larry Beyer]

By way of explanation, I applied gloss varnish over BLO...didnt like the mirror appearance; then applied one coat satin varnish ...got a "dull" look, dont like it.

The appearance I am after is one of a "wet look" sort of like a newly waxed and polished car. The varnish didnt give me that except when I first applied it.

If not wax, how do I get the look i am after??? Any suggestions?

[Bob Winkler]

Maybe I alone here, but I like the look and feel of wax. On a recent project (a bookcase) , I waxed after the last wipe-on poly topcoat dried- about 24 hours. Maybe poly varnish is different than other resin varnishes. I used minwax furniture wax and had no problems with the application, and I love the soft look.

As to the maintainence, when it needs it, the wax is easily stripped, and easily reapplied.

Just my $.02:p

Bob

[Jim Becker]

Larry, wax isn't going to fix what you mention in post #6. It's very much a temporary coating as Steve mentions. You probably need to recoat with gloss and then rub it out to lower the sheen to what you actually want.

[Dennis Peacock]

You probably need to recoat with gloss and then rub it out to lower the sheen to what you actually want.

Exactly.....!!!!! I like using Gloss finishes and then rubbing to the sheen I want. Works really well for me that way. ;)

[Larry Beyer]

OK People.... I am completely new at all of this. This is the first cabinet I ever built with BLO and oil varnish finish.
What exactly do you mean by 'Rubbed?"
How do you rub?
What do you rub with?

I need very basic answers because I do not have any basic experience.

Thanx for the response.

lcb

[Steve Schoene]

With finishes that build a film on the surface, such as varnish, the finish must be finished after it cures. There are inevitable dust nibs, or an occasional sag or brush strokes. To remove these, the finish is lightly scraped or sanded, and then polished with pumice and rottenstone (traditionally) or rubbing compounds. This polishing process is collectively known as ""rubbing out". By choosing the fineness of the polishing abrasive you can determine how glossy the finish will be.

[tri nguyen]

I am in the same shoe as Larry. I am trying to refinish an old maple dresser. I used Minwax tung oild but don't like it very much so I applied a few more coats of Minwax Wipe-on poly over it. It seems like the wipe-on bring more gloss to it.
I like the look when the wipe-on is still wet (very shinny wet looking). I read my book and it said that I would have to "finish over the finishing" to bring out the final appearance. My question are:

1- Should I use steel wool to "rubb" it? I did try it on the side of the dresser but it gives me a satin look insteads of a gloss look.

2- Is there any power tool can do this job? I have a RO sander (Dewalt 421K). Should I use this RO sander with very fine sand paper (not sure which one will be available at Homedepot) to "rubb" it out?

3- What about using car polishing as a final? If this is a good idea, what would be the product of choice?

I think I am confused at this point. I am thinking about to different paths:

Apply wipe-on, sand it with steel wool, re apply wipe-on, sand it and top coat it with wipe-on and buff it out with paste wax.

Or:

Apply wipe-on, sand it with a RO sander, reapply wipe-on, sand it and then use car polishing to polish it out.

Please help.

Thank you very much for you input and please tell me soon before I made some mistakes ( I already did apply wipe-on to the inside of the drawer and now I just know that I shouldn't :mad: . Would you think that using shellac will get rid of the smell? ).

Thanks again.

Tri

[Steve Schoene]

You should be able to build a respectable gloss with the wipe on poly, but the thing that makes the wipe on easy to apply makes it hard to rub out. With a finish such as varnish (oil based or waterborne) that do only limited cross-linking between coats, it is not a good idea to cut through the final coat into lower coats during the rubbing out process. You often get "contour" lines when that happens. The cure is another coat. (Shellac and lacquer both almost completely link between coats so that in the end you have just one monolithic layer.)

Wipe on finishes are very thin, making this cut through hard to avoid. For me that rules out a RO sander, though some may manage it. The sanding you want to do is VERY light so the powered sander won't save much anyway.

Steel wool is best used to achieve a satin finish on the final coat, and can be lubricated with soapy water (Just a few drops of dawn mostly to cut the surface tension, not creating a lather.) It can be used between coats, but a sandpaper block, or a card scraper, are much better at removing dust nibs and other defects. (We are talking 600 and finer grit on the final coat, and 320 between coats.)

Yes, you can use automotive polishing compounds, though others will have to talk about brands because I'm pretty old-fashioned and like the appearance of rottenstone polished varnish or shellac. Again, powered buffers can be used, but can be pretty agressive.

Any aggressive rubbing out should really be done on thicker, brushed or sprayed, finishes.

[tri nguyen]

Thank you Steve for your reply. About the final coat, if I sand it with 600 grit and then apply the final coat, would it gives me a uniform smooth surface after all or I would need a buffer to buff it out?
Thank you.

[Steve Schoene]

Before the final coat 320 grit paper is fine enough. On the next to last coat the sanding should give a smooth, evenly dull finish. Then apply the final coat. I have never been able to apply a coat of finish that doesn't require some rubbing out, though very fast drying sprayed finishes in very dust free environments can probably avoid rubbing out.

Its only the final coat that follows a progression something like this: Scrape very lightly, capitalize VERY to remove the inevitable dust nips. This can probably be accomplished with 600 grit. From that point on there are several things which are mostly a matter of preference. I often use 1000 or 1200 grit paper to remove any scratches from the 600 grit, then if I am going for a gloss finish I use rottenstone, lubricated with either water or pareffin oil depending on the topcoat material. I rub it on with a soft cloth, checking frequently to see if I have achieved an even gloss. Be careful with edges, since it is easy to cut through even with as light an abrasive as rotten stone.

Others skip the finer paper and rub with pumice with similar lubrication. If you are looking for a satin finish you can stop after this step.

I have never felt I needed a powered buffer, though I would perhaps rethink that if I had conference tables to do.

[tri nguyen]

A few more questions:
1- Where do you buy 600, 1000, 2000 grit sand papers? Homedepot only carries up to 400 grit.
2- If my top coat is Minmax wipe-on, what lubricated should I use?
3- Have you ever used liquid sand which is used to polish acrylic? I have a few bottle of Novus around. Not sure if it's a good idea to use on wood.

Thank you.

Tri

[Steve Schoene]

Auto supply places carry the finer grits. Water--with a few drops of Dawn to break the surface tension should work fine. Be careful its hard to see what's happening with lubricant. I don't know anything about the Novus.

[tri nguyen]

Steve,
Sorry for my stupidity but what is Dawn and where to get it?
Thanks a lot for your help. I did some staining and finishing on molding for my house before and I though I was good. But now I just realized that for funiture finishing, I am totally a dump newbie.
Will try to finish the dresser this weekend (hopefully).
Tri

[Steve Schoene]

Dawn is a liquid dishwashing soap found in every grocery store. The brand really isn't important.

[tri nguyen]

Thanks Steve.
How long do I have to wait before I can rub it? One day after the final coat should be OK to rub or I would need to wait longer?
Tri

[Steve Schoene]

Definately more than one day. A week at a minimum, but a month is better.

[tri nguyen]

Got it. Now I have something explain to my wife. Otherwise, she'd think I am lazy, lol.
Thanks.
Tri