Grizzly 20" Planer motor hotrod?

[Jesse Busenitz]

I have the G1033X and I keep frying start caps, as apparently taking off 1/16 at 20" is more than the 5hp can handle. It slows the motor down and than the cent switch kicks in and poof......:eek: Anyways I'm thinking about dropping in a 7.5 motor, but than I'm thinking why not just upgrade to a 24"? I've been keeping my eye out locally for a older used planer but havent snagged anything yet, as I haven't been that serious until now, as I'm just fed up of babying the planer. Anyways what's your opinion? Drop a 3phs 7.5 in or just wait until i can find a bigger used one?

[John TenEyck]

I just went through a similar situation with the motor on my planer. It would just bog down at anything more than 1/32". The brain trust here suggested the problem was the run capacitor and, sure enough, that's what it was. It runs great now. I would pull out your motor and take it to a motor shop and have them take a look at it before looking for a new motor. 5 HP should be sufficient for a 20" machine.

John

[Cary Falk]

I have a G0453Z that kept popping caps. I replaced the 3hp motor with a better 3hp motor and haven't had any issues since. A better 5 hp morot would probably fix the issue. That being said, If you really want a 24" planer, go for it. I find that if I have an idea in the back of my mind I eventually end up doing it. A motorless planer might be a harder sell. Some people don't want to bother if it is not plug in play.

[Jesse Busenitz]

I just went through a similar situation with the motor on my planer. It would just bog down at anything more than 1/32". The brain trust here suggested the problem was the run capacitor and, sure enough, that's what it was. It runs great now. I would pull out your motor and take it to a motor shop and have them take a look at it before looking for a new motor. 5 HP should be sufficient for a 20" machine.

John

I guess I didn't test the run cap this time but I'm pretty sure I did last time which was like 5 months ago. 5hp is probably enough for most, but I'm running a lot of wood through mine and don't care to mess around with it. I noticed that anything bigger grizzly sales and they go to two motors for cutter head and feed. I was just looking at an older powermatic 24" and it had a 15hp motor which is only 4" wider but 3 times the power.....

[Eric Rimel]

A 1/16" pass at full 20" width in hardwood? In my world we call that logging. We have a 27" with a spiral cutterheard and 10 HP (3ph) that we don't take that big of a bite with. Maybe your motor does need to be looked at, but I'd start with taking smaller bites.

[Dan Friedrichs]

That's a lot of wood to be taking off...

An induction motor is not designed to run at slower speed, so if you're bogging it down enough to actually slow it down, you're WAY WAY WAY overloading it. I'm surprised there isn't an overcurrent protection on the motor that trips.

Is it possible that the wiring supplying the motor is undersized? That might be a more reasonable explanation for your symptoms.

The frying of start caps is not exactly your problem, here - that's the symptom of the motor slowing down WAY too much. That's the problem you need to fix. Either something is wrong with the motor, something is wrong with the supply, or you are loading the motor too heavily.

I'd suggest putting a current meter on the motor supply and seeing how close you're getting to the rated current.


EDIT to add:
1) It seems like you're trying to decide if 5HP is sufficient. There is no need to "guess" or compare to other machines. Measure the current into the motor and find out. You might find that the motor is only drawing 2HP of power under heavy load, which would entirely answer your question and re-direct you to other potential sources of problems.

2) Saying "put a better motor on it" is a bit like saying, "If your car keeps getting flat tires, buy a better car". If you have a driveway full of nails, a new car won't fix your tire problem, and if you have insufficient supply wiring, a bigger motor won't fix your cap problem. A bigger/"better" motor is pointless until you identify the root cause of the problem, here.

[Don Jarvie]

Not all 5hp motors are equal. The one from Grizzly isn't the best you can get. If you have 3ph then a good 5hp motor will do the job, 7.5 even better. If you can get a old 5hp R/I motor it will cut anything.

I have an old Wagner 3hp R/I motor that will cut anything. The older motors are true 5hp motors.

[Martin Wasner]

A 1/16" cut is too much? No. If my planer wasn't capable of removing that much stock at once, I too would be looking for better options.

Something else is up.

[John C Bush]

I have that planer and haven't had issues with bogging down. Lots of maple thru it at close to max width and one full turn on the bed elev ator. Hobby slab milling so not all day every day but steady performance so far. good luck

[Dave Cav]

Any used 24" planer you find will more than likely be Old Arn, very heavy and three phase, probably 10 HP, maybe more.

I have an 18" Powermatic 180 with a 3 phase Baldor motor run via a 7.5 HP VFD...plenty of power available. If I would try to take 1/16 off a full width hardwood board, it would (and has) trip the VFD on over current.

[Jim Andrew]

To get a commercial grade planer from Grizzly, you have to go up a grade. The G01033 is still a hobby grade machine. When I try to run my G0453px all day, the overload pops off, but it works fine to run a few boards.

[Ken Grant]

Any used 24" planer you find will more than likely be Old Arn, very heavy and three phase, probably 10 HP, maybe more.

I have an 18" Powermatic 180 with a 3 phase Baldor motor run via a 7.5 HP VFD...plenty of power available. If I would try to take 1/16 off a full width hardwood board, it would (and has) trip the VFD on over current.

Is this with standard knives or a byrd type cutterhead? I do think the spiral heads need more power. I have an 18 inch Oliver 399 with a 3 hp direct drive motor and a 3 knife cutterhead. It has no problems taking a full width pass of 1/16" on maple.

[Dave Cav]

Is this with standard knives or a byrd type cutterhead? I do think the spiral heads need more power. I have an 18 inch Oliver 399 with a 3 hp direct drive motor and a 3 knife cutterhead. It has no problems taking a full width pass of 1/16" on maple.

It is a Byrd head, belt drive. As for helical heads taking more power, I don't know; I think it would be interesting to see a comparison between two identical planers, one with a helical planer and one with a straight knife head planning the same board.

[Jesse Busenitz]

It seems like I've read of a lot of people with arn planer who are taking off quite a bit over 1/16, but then we get into the finish vs. roughing planers. So all that being said i'm going to put a reading on my amps and see what I'm drawing under a load, and see if there is an issue there at all. Would a bad connection somewhere be limiting the amps? Either way I think I'm still leaning toward getting something a little more industrial.... it's been a good planer but I think I'm just asking for more than what it was built for.

[Dan Friedrichs]

If the wire feeding the planer is undersized, you could have excessive voltage drop, which could be causing the symptoms you describe. What size of wire feeds the machine, and how long is the run?

[Van Huskey]

IMO you are simply asking too much of the particular planer. In your position I would find an old iron roughing planer. The Powermatics were excellent roughing planers usually powered to hog all day long, but you will have to set up a RPC to run the ones with significant 3 phase power. The Grizzly is powered like a finish planer more in line with the Oliver 399 for example. Find yourself a Powermatic 221 or 225 and hog to your hearts content.

[Jesse Busenitz]

If the wire feeding the planer is undersized, you could have excessive voltage drop, which could be causing the symptoms you describe. What size of wire feeds the machine, and how long is the run?

I'm running it on a 30 amp breaker with 10 gauge at 30" so I don't think that is an issue. I did put an amp meter on it and I was pulling close to 35 amps when it was starting to pull hard, so i'm wondering if my breaker is bad??? It's only a year old and I'm not sure what would be wrong with it. The breaker has tripped occasionally but most of the time the start cap has kicked in and I have to manually shut it down. And when the start cap kicks in I'm sure I'm pulling way more than 30 amps, so I'm going to see what a new breaker does. But like I said earlier, I think i just need to get something a little more industrial.

[David L Morse]

I'm running it on a 30 amp breaker with 10 gauge at 30" so I don't think that is an issue. I did put an amp meter on it and I was pulling close to 35 amps when it was starting to pull hard, so i'm wondering if my breaker is bad??? It's only a year old and I'm not sure what would be wrong with it. The breaker has tripped occasionally but most of the time the start cap has kicked in and I have to manually shut it down. And when the start cap kicks in I'm sure I'm pulling way more than 30 amps, so I'm going to see what a new breaker does. But like I said earlier, I think i just need to get something a little more industrial.

At 35A it could easily take 10 minutes or more for a 30A breaker to trip. The breaker is not likely the cause of your problems.

[Jesse Busenitz]

At 35A it could easily take 10 minutes or more for a 30A breaker to trip. The breaker is not likely the cause of your problems.


Yeah, but that was before the centrifugal switch/start cap kicked in... then it went to 60 some amps and still no trip. It was only for a second or two before i hit kill switch, as it don't take long to smoke a cap.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Your breaker is not the problem, and it sounds like the supply is sufficient.

35A is about what you'd expect from a 5HP motor running at full load at 240V. Are you sure the cutters are sharp, the bed is waxed, nothing is dragging, etc?

[Brian W Smith]

Yes,get a more robust machine.Yes,make sure your elect service is on point.

But,one glowing problem on a lot of motors,especially those tucked into cabinets is;lack of airflow.

Cpl ways of improving this;Quick method is attaching a shop air QD to the pcs sheet metal.A pce of 1/4" copper refrigerator tubing soldered into the male connector,bent to flow air over the motor.Disconnect hose when it isn't needed.This also works for BS's,injected straight down into the cut.Works very well on our Wallace mortising machine too.

On certain equipment,sanders really,you need to seriously consider pulling a vacuum on the motor compartment.Having the motor under the business as in a typical 6x48 vert,sees right much grit "swarming" around in the cabinet.Wye off your DC hard line to the compartment,pulling fresh air through the motor.Seems to work better than supplied air.

[David L Morse]

Yeah, but that was before the centrifugal switch/start cap kicked in... then it went to 60 some amps and still no trip. It was only for a second or two before i hit kill switch, as it don't take long to smoke a cap.

Your breaker probably takes more than 10 seconds to trip at 2X rated current.

35A seems a bit low for a 5HP motor running slow enough for the centrifugal switch to close. It might be a good idea to take another look at that run capacitor.

[Jeff Duncan]

I'm in the upgrade camp. Everyone has different needs and for many they can get by with what you have. But when you start milling a lot of material, it becomes obvious you need a bigger machine. I run an old 20" SCM planer with a 9 hp motor and it would be pretty rare I take a full 1/16" on hardwood on a pass. When I do it's obvious the machine is really working and it's not happy about it! I'm not going to say outright that you can't take a full width pass on something like oak or maple at 1/16" with a 5 hp or smaller motor.....but you would be pushing the machine and motor way past what it's comfortable with. So my advice would be 1/32" per pass until such time as you can replace.

I also wouldn't go too much bigger with the motor. Lets say you can shoehorn a motor that's twice the size of the original. The machine was originally designed for a certain size motor and a a certain workload. Bumping up the motor size and increasing the workload while the rest of the machine stays stock may lead to other parts failing prematurely.

good luck,
jeffD

[David Kumm]

If you are wanting to take off a lot Van's advice ( and others ) is good. You need more than a bigger motor. The machine itself needs to be built to handle the stress involved. A spiral is a finishing head. It needs more power and doesn't deal as well with deep cuts as a straight knife head of thick steel that dissipates heat. Same with Tersa as it has less mass to handle heavy cuts. Roughing planers had a heavy pressure bar, cast iron or heavy steel chipbreakers with heavy springs, and max fill or double bearings to handle the radial loads of deep cuts. The old iron planers in the 18" range were built far heavier than most of today's 20" and were considered to be light duty and weighed about 1200-1300 lbs. The 24" planers were about double the weight of the 18" at 2200-2500 lbs. The industrial 24-7 planers like Buss and Whitney weighed double again. Machines are made to operate within their engineered range and exceeding them is a bad deal. Like running a 10 lb shaper cutter on a 3/4" spindle or a large dado on a 5/8". Dave

[Bill Space]

My guess is you have a motor issue. As mentioned above, maybe the run capacitor.

The grizzly specification for your 20" planer is likely a 1/8" max cut. You are having trouble with half this amount? I doubt Grizzle inflates their machine capacities by 100%.

Perhaps there is another issue with your motor, like shorted turns in the stator or rotor. In any case you machine is performing well below its rating.

Hope you can find the issue and report back. Perhaps a call to Grizzly would confirm what the maximum attainable depth of cut is for your machine?

Wishing that you resolve the issue soon!

[Jeff Duncan]

My guess is you have a motor issue. As mentioned above, maybe the run capacitor.

The grizzly specification for your 20" planer is likely a 1/8" max cut. You are having trouble with half this amount? I doubt Grizzle inflates their machine capacities by 100%.

Perhaps there is another issue with your motor, like shorted turns in the stator or rotor. In any case you machine is performing well below its rating.

Hope you can find the issue and report back. Perhaps a call to Grizzly would confirm what the maximum attainable depth of cut is for your machine?

Wishing that you resolve the issue soon!

Max cut means you cannot physically insert something into the machine to take off more than that amount. For example, you cannot feed a 1-1/4" thick piece of wood in when it's set to 1". It does NOT mean that you can or should try to remove that amount in a pass, nor could it. This is something important to understand before operating your equipment. The requirements for removing 1/16" of maple are altogether different than removing 1/16" of cedar. A machine that can take that easily in cedar, may not be able to in maple.

A bad analogy, (my favorite kind btw), would be kind of like having a maximum speed of 140mph on your Jeep Wrangler. Just because it might be possible to go that fast, doesn't mean you ever should;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Bill Space]

Max cut means you cannot physically insert something into the machine to take off more than that amount. For example, you cannot feed a 1-1/4" thick piece of wood in when it's set to 1". It does NOT mean that you can or should try to remove that amount in a pass, nor could it. This is something important to understand before operating your equipment. The requirements for removing 1/16" of maple are altogether different than removing 1/16" of cedar. A machine that can take that easily in cedar, may not be able to in maple.

good luck,
JeffD

Jeff, I see your point about using common sense with any tool one might use.

However, specifications are listed for a reason... To indicate the capabilities of a piece of equipment. The Grizzly 1/8"maximum depth of cut spec is not listed with any qualifiers or limitations.

For example, the specification for cutting capacity of a metal shear may be listed as 16 gage (mild steel). It may also be listed as capable of cutting thicker softer metals and thinner harder metals like stainless. Capabilities are defined by the specifications. Granted ceader should cut easier than hardwood. But Grizzly does not spec 1/8" for ceader, 1/16" for ash...and so on.

Without limitations being included in the specification, one one should be able to assume that a machine will perform close to what is specified as its capabilities. When cutting the intended material, in this case wood. If it is impossible to cut the intended material at 50% of specified maximum cut depth, something is terribly wrong, either with the specification or the equipment.

Personally I always take light cuts with my planer, probably never hitting 1/16" DOC. So I'm not sure if Grizzly's spec is doable or not. If not, then what other specifications listed could be trusted?

Bill

[Jesse Busenitz]

I sold my Grizz yesterday and going to pick up a Delta RC 63 today, and I got 100$ to boot. I got an extra 4" and double my horsepower.
Not a slam but for you guys who think a 1/16 is a big bite...... read the label above the bed. Not expecting that out the delta though.:D

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