PMK Coper?

[Martin Wasner]

Anyone have experience with one of these?

I'm currently doing all my coping for cabinet doors on a pair of shapers with the Copecrafter jigs. It works alright, but it could easily be better. For whatever reason, some people just aren't good at coping.

Originally I thought I would look for a Unique Machine double ended coper, you can do two at a time, and the cycling is automated. The downside is anything that isn't fitting between the spindles isn't getting coped on that machine and you still have to have shapers set up to run the longer rails, like on paneled cabinet backs. Slick machine, but it doesn't gain me any floor space, and the thought of having the capital tied up to have a set of shapers and the dedicated coper isn't appealing. Plus the cost of having another $4k wrapped up in heads, backers, and carbide.

The local machine jockey is pushing these PMK machines pretty hard. At first I wasn't too interested, but it does seem like a better option the longer I look at them. No backers which would be nice. Plus you can do two parts at a time with typical rail and stile sizes so long as they aren't double sticked parts, just the sticking on one face. You just run them flat to flat. I'm not sure how fond of the add on table I am for changing of tooling. The do have a model with HSK spindles that would make change over time about as quick, but with a higher entry fee I'm sure. The smaller unit has a max of about 9", I don't see that being a problem for me. Anytime I've got a rail taller than that in a cabinet side It's usually got some sort of trim going around the bottom anyways and I scab something in there just to support the trim. I am slightly concerned about the build quality. It seems rather light at 1100#. The model with the HSK spindles is pushing #2000 though. I'm not sure if the lesser models are using a single motor or what. Just as a reference, by 51" bed SAC shaper is about 1600#. I don't want to be purchasing something that is along the lines of a Powermatic shaper for spindle quality.



https://youtu.be/jvs0IFu6iHM



Thoughts?

[peter gagliardi]

I saw those at IWF, as I was really looking at side sliding table shapers.
They were not all that impressive to my eye.
Just another version of the Unique machine. I have heard from some colleagues the the Unique machines were very lightly built under the table- comparable to a Powermatic 27 or so. I think that is the case with a lot of this type machine. Small spindles, small closely spaced bearings.

[J.R. Rutter]

Want to double your tooling costs?

[Martin Wasner]

Want to double your tooling costs?

How so? I'm not following.

[J.R. Rutter]

How so? I'm not following.

It uses counter rotating heads to avoid blowout, so two cope heads for every profile. It takes marginally longer to cope first and stick second, letting you use a square backer to avoid blowout. If there is a chip, chances are you can remove it with the sticking profile. A linear guide with pneumatic clamp sled lets you do multiple parts per stroke.

[Martin Wasner]

It uses counter rotating heads to avoid blowout, so two cope heads for every profile. It takes marginally longer to cope first and stick second, letting you use a square backer to avoid blowout. If there is a chip, chances are you can remove it with the sticking profile. A linear guide with pneumatic clamp sled lets you do multiple parts per stroke.

I kinda figured that's what you were saying, just wanted to make sure. I've already got left and right insert heads for my all my profiles. Except for shaker style.

I do my sticking cuts in full rips, I'm not sure I'm ready to abandon that. I'd have to get a tracked powerfeeder, (or one with a zillion tiny wheels), and I think I'm slinging parts through the sticking profile cutter at 20fpm, and I'd like to be moving a bit quicker. The next step up is 33fpm, and that's hell to keep up with even with full rips by yourself. Plus the cut quality drops off a bit too far for my liking. I think the sweet spot is about 25fpm with the heads I've got. (I really wish I would've bought one of those Brushless Comatic feeders...) The moral of the story is, I think it'd take one meth head or two normal people to keep that shaper cutting. Nuts to butts on the parts that is, with no empty cutter happening. I get cranky when a shaper/planer/widebelt/other big power gobbling machine is spinning and not hogging wood.


I do think that mounting the clamps that I've got on a set of linear bearings would improve the usuability of what I have, but I'm also using two aged Powermatic shapers that are about ready for the scrap pile, so those need to be replaced anyways. If I went with two new shapers, that's almost $20k right there. Peter's comment about them being lightly built makes me squeamish too.



(edit)- and holy crap! The model with the HSK spindles is $47k. I can crack a lot of nuts for more than twenty grand. The regular Unique Machine coper is $35k I believe when I got a quote a few years ago.

[J.R. Rutter]

We should do some stopwatch comparisons offline. I've wondered about the stick first, but I find myself flipping strips around to get the grain and crown consistent. Maybe needlessly?

[Martin Wasner]

We should do some stopwatch comparisons offline. I've wondered about the stick first, but I find myself flipping strips around to get the grain and crown consistent. Maybe needlessly?

Nope, I crown every piece too.

I'd be curious, our setups aren't that far off I don't think.

Want to piss away some material? Pick a profile/specie that you'll use so it's not a total loss? Time just the machining part since that is all that matters? Don't include the time of setup, turning on dc or machines, moving material carts.

Ten 8' sticks, worth of material. 2-1/4" R&S is 15 bd/ft not including, so not much cost if using paint grade material. It'd make sense to use the same cut list so the parts are the same size between operators.

[Martin Wasner]

I'd have to use a profile where I use left and right copes too to make the comparison worthwhile.