Ply Edge banding - advice please

[George Matthews]

I'm building several drawers, and have chosen to use 1/2 plywood for the case. A solid (oak) face will be screwed on after the case is made. Traditionally I cut strips of 3/8 to 1/2 thick matching wood to cover the edges. Getting the band to cover just the edge witout messy glue has always been stressful and more work than it should be. Traditionally I try an exact width band and clamp/brad that into place. Trouble is that it's rarely 'exactly' covering the thin veneer.

I don't like the iron on tape. It peels and I want a bull nose.

I prefer not to use any brads, as I want to round over after applying the band.

I thought of two methods. 'A' exact width tounge and groove, and 'B' oversize and trim with a fush router bit.

Any comments and suggestions appreciated.

[Curt Harms]

Hi George

"b" works for me. I've also used the slightly overwidth technique and sand it down. Sanding reduces any risk of router bit tearout but sanding can make for divots, so I guess it's pick-your-poison.

Curt

[Keith Christopher]

There was an excellent wood mag article on this VERY thing. I personally use a little titebond II and good clamping pressure and haven't had any problems. Of course spline joints give you more surface area ergo more strength. And also more strength on the shelf that is banded (less sagging.) If you have the time/where-with-all I would say spline them.



Keith

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I've done it both ways, plus used the edgebanding tape. The problem with tape is that it is not durable and cannot accept an edge detail as you pointed out.

One suggestion when using solid wood is to use your surface planer to machine the edging to match the width of the plywood. By using a planer, you can creep up on the final width and ensure that the width is consistent without any kerf marks. A cheap caliper is a nice tool to guage your progress.

As far as applying the edging, I like to use the cheap nylon band clamps (Jorgensen) to ensure the corners are tight. Then I use F clamps in the middle. However, this takes time, and glue squeeze out is clumsy to remove. If the part is of lesser concern, I like to use the brad nailer without any clamps, and use a filler on the nail holes. This is what I did recently while refacing my comtemporary kitchen cabinet doors a couple of weeks ago.

cheers, Jeff

[George Matthews]

How about this... option C.

The band's spline is fashioned on a table saw with a slight angle.

The idea here is to force the band to centre and the glue into the (saw blade width) dado. I have experienced glue hydraulic back pressure on tight joints. I'm thinking that a small cross cut (coping saw) in the spline every six inches would provide a channel for the glue to seep into the dado and out the end rather than over the side.

[George Matthews]

One suggestion when using solid wood is to use your surface planer to machine the edging to match the width of the plywood. By using a planer, you can creep up on the final width and ensure that the width is consistent without any kerf marks. A cheap caliper is a nice tool to guage your progress.


Good suggestion, as that is exactly as I have been making the banding recently. I also plan to cut the sline while the milled board is still a few inches wide, then cup the band to depth. In that way I can avoid handling a potentially dangerious 1/2 x 5/16 strip for the spline cuts.

[Brian Jarnell]

I do quite a lot of furniture useing customwood with wood vaneer.
I biscuit the clashing on (edgebanding) and use the required amount of clamps,any glue that squeezes out I remove with a rag and some water.
The biscuits allow me to align the clashing to near enough.When dry I use a block plane to get just about perfect,then finish the job with my 4"belt sander with 120 grit.
The vaneer by the way is very thin,but I can get it perfect every time.So it can be done.

[Dev Emch]

I work with ply but I dont like it. Baltic birch is wonderful for making templates and drawer bottoms. But using ply for carcuss sides is not fun. A big aspect of that no fun factor is edgebanding.

The problem with most edge banding is 1). Getting the band flush with the thin veneers of the sheet goods. and 2). Avoiding a wide frame look that you get with most schemes.

In looking for various solutions, I have found the Burgess solution to be worth a try. I have a couple of projects lined up between now and New Years that will need edge banding. The plan is to use the burgess technology on these two projects so I will let you all know what I think of this solution.

What prompts me to give it a try is the fact that the system reduces the "Framed Look" by edging right up to the veneer detail. Likewise, these cuts have to be made almost perfect or else you have visable flaws along this glue line. One of the things I need to test for myself with the burgess.

More food for thought....

[Jamie Buxton]

This is one of those many-ways-to-skin-a-cat issues. My version is B. It is quick and easy to make the strips, and they fit all the sheets of plywood you get. Making perfect strips and finding they fit only two of the six sheets you bought is a bummer.

I make my strips maybe 1/4" wider than the plywood. This leaves plenty of width when you're gluing them on. I don't use any biscuits or other locating means -- just glue 'em on. To trim off the waste, I've tried maybe ten ways, and have two favorites.

If I'm edging just one edge of a piece of plywood, I generally take the waste off with a hand plane. (I'm not a hand tool fanatic by any means. This is just one of those operations where a hand tool works well.) Arrange a lamp so that the waste casts a long shadow across the face of the plywood, and you can use the shadow to gauge how close you are to done. I can generally get it down to a few thou, and then sanding takes the remainder.

If I'm edging more than one edge (for instance, a table top), the plane doesn't work at the corners. You have to plane across the grain of the edging, and it splinters out. I've built an offset base for my router. The base rests on the plywood face, with the bit's axis normal to the face. I use a 3/4" straight bit, and carve away. I find this scheme is a little less controllable than the handplane, so I don't cut the waste as close to the plywood face. It still gets down to sandable, but it takes a little more sanding than the handplane scheme.

[Keith Hooks]

I've glued slightly oversized pieces to the face and trimmed them flush with a trim bit in a small router. I'm very pleased with the results. Or, you could trim the edges to flush with a block plane (a very satisyfing approach as well). If you have trouble with the piece floating during clamping, you could add a few biscuits to help with alignment.

[Bob Winkler]

I've tried many ways:
- tried the Burgess bits, but sent them back. Although the concept is good, it was difficult to setup and execute given the thinness of modern veneers on plywood.
- I too hate edgebanding because of long term durability issues
- I now use solid wood oversized in width and thickness (your B). I tried a flush cut router for width sizing, but after ruining several pieces because of a slight slip, I have settled on handplanes for proper sizing. Even my father's old Stanley shaves this edge very well, and I feel I'm in control. I then cut the edge thickness to the size I want by ripping the panel through my TS.

This works best for me.

Bob

[George Matthews]

- I now use solid wood oversized in width and thickness (your B). I tried a flush cut router for width sizing, but after ruining several pieces because of a slight slip, I have settled on handplanes for proper sizing. Even my father's old Stanley shaves this edge very well, and I feel I'm in control. I then cut the edge thickness to the size I want by ripping the panel through my TS.

This works best for me.



Using a B with a hand plane seems to be a favorite, and in fact, I recall doing it that way once.

I have tried to glue up two strips at once, ganged across using pipe clamps, but what seemed like a good idea turned ugly when I tried to flip it over and clean-up the glue squeeze on the back... it 'poped out' of the clamps. :eek:

It seems to make (more) sense to clamp the option B band face down, and let the glue drool over the band. Any glue missed on wipe-up will be hand planed off after the clamps come off. :rolleyes:

[Chris Padilla]

B works for me just like Mr. Buxton pointed out. Make 'em fat and who cares how much they slip upon glue-up.

I also have the Burgess Edge bits and like them, too. However, they are fussy to set up and if your ply vaies thickness along the cut, you'll hate this system.

But, assuming the ply is consistent thickness, you'll want to leave both veneers as you excavate the center. Cutting the edge-banding itself is a piece of cake once the plywood is ready since you'll set up both bits exactly the same.

The BE works VERY nicely on curved edges because it'll self-align.

One issue is that the plywood edges are VERY fragile...VERY!! Be oh so careful after cutting them...you look at that veneer edge funny it'll crack and chip on you! LOL! :)

Once glued up, this is probably the best looking edge-banding you'll see out there. If you're semi-careful on grain flow, you'll make the ply panel look almost like a solid piece of wood. It can be that nice. The key is to leave the veneer edges of the plywood intact.

[Andrew Ault]

Left to my own devices, this is how I flush-trim hardwood edges glued on Plywood.

I cut the edge band a bit wide (1/8") and glue it to the plywood edge with biscuits, or without.

After curing I clamp the plywood workpiece to the side of my workbench with some scrap spacers, hardwood edge up and with the egde flush with the top of my workbench.

I then just use a flushtrim bit and an oversized base on my router and trim the banding. It seems to work well.

[George Matthews]

How about option C.

The band's spline is fashioned on a table saw with a slight angle.

The idea here is to force the band to centre and the glue into the (saw blade width) dado.

I tried B, with hand plane cleanup and C methods.

B talkes less work to get ready for glue-up, but is messy and takes more work after glue setup.

C takes more work to setup, but is dead centre, with much less glue squeeze out. The edges are very tight to the veneer as well. Still a fair bit of work, even more than B, but less stressful.

[Jim Becker]

I like A or C because of the extra gluing and alignment advantage...clamped with masking tape. The only bad thing about using the groove is it complicates corners... ;) ...so I'll stick with B.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Don't waste your money on the Burgess system. It works until you touch the edge, the ply will then peel at will. A client paid for the router bits to be delivered to me for the project and we have all been regretting it since...especially his wife...:eek:

I will stick with option B as well...especially considering the extra time most any other option takes.

[markus shaffer]

George,

I'm sorry to report, but everyone here has it wrong. This is a great opportunity to invest in a new tool. This is what you need.

http://www.hoffmann-usa.com/htm/lipping_planer/bh-556.htm


Okay, I'm joking. I think for a small project, the hand plane is the best idea. Quiet and a sense of accomplishment if one is used to doing everything by machine.

All jest aside, I do have the Hoffman and it's pretty amazing if you do a lot of this work. you can click the link below to read a review I did of it.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=3669



-Markus

[Larry Browning]

I am pretty sure I saw a plan to make an edgeband trimming jig for the router in one of my magazines recently. I remember thinking I ought to build that but now I can't seem to find it. I'm thinking it was in Shopnotes. Does anyone remember where this is? I did a combo of A and B on some storage boxes to go under the train table I built for my grandson. I am just this week gluing on the edgebanding. I can only do 2 panels at a time due to a clamp shortage.

[Don Baer]

I can only do 2 panels at a time due to a clamp shortage.

Sounds to me that you got a perfectly good excuse to buy more clamps....:D

[Hoa Dinh]

I'm in the middle of a kitchen mobile cart with a lot of edge banding. I used to do B (oversized edging then flush trim routing) but recently I start doing B' (oversized edging then hand planing). The Veritas BU smoother makes the process sooooooooooo easy.

Here (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hoa_dinh@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=e01c&.dnm=7332.jpg&.src=ph) is a photo of my router flush trim jig. I have a similar one for the PC laminate trimmer.