Optimizing tool acquisition.....thoughts on how we go about it

[Roger Chandler]

Acknowledging up front on this thread that not every turner has the same amount of expendable cash, does the same level of turning [full time, part time, hobby, and some just occasionally....the approach we turners take to tool acquisition varies quite a bit, and I think the approach one takes will vary the results one gets as well. Me, I want to optimize my tool acquisitions to get maximum results and returns. I do not want to get a tool that will give me less than optimal results within my budget restraints.

There are also all different stages that we turners are at, such as just getting into it, and learning, versus the seasoned turner who wants to get the very best tool he can for his money...gouges being an example. Wanting to not spend money on the premium tools and then have a learning curve on sharpening that just grinds the steel away in the learning curve of sharpening, versus purchasing a "starter set" of fair quality such as the Benjamin's Best or some get the Harbor Freight to start out, which I think is legitimate.

Those examples being stated, I do think there are a number of turners who frustrate their own success by trying to do things on the cheap so much that they try all sorts of work-arounds, and ignore the body of information that exists from decades of turning and fairly standard grinder setup and tool selections that have been solid staples of the turning craft. Sometimes budget constraints do create problems for us, but there should be some givens to recognize in the acquisition of tools, grinder setups, and lathe features.

Example 1. From my research and exposure to the turning world, the turning community has come to a pretty solid consensus on grinder setup regarding size.......and that is the 8" slow speed grinder. Sure it "can be done" using other size setups, and high rpm's, but they are outliers, and require perhaps different setups and techniques to get satisfactory results.

That deviation may actually be an attraction for some who prefer to go against conventional wisdom, and develop a personal approach that is different from the vast majority of successful turners. Yep, it can be done by some, but the newbie coming in, will benefit from that body of conventional wisdom, or, that hobbyist who is in the exploratory stage and wants to up his/her skill set and results they get. We do not have to re-invent the wheel all the time, as we can build upon what has been proven time and time again to work successfully!

Example 2. We have all heard the joke about woodturners......." I am just one tool away from greatness." Well, admittedly, there are probably few turners who are more oriented towards trying new things than me, but I do have a rationale behind my tool acquisitions, and that is it has to serve a needed function, and I don't purchase to to "have" a particular tool. That means approaching an acquisition with thoughtful consideration of functional purpose, value and quality for this turner. I try to avoid "impulse" buying of anything, that way I assure that "thoughtful consideration" process gets carried out before pulling the trigger on any major or medium purchase. Of course, I do have drill bits that I don't regularly use that came in sets, but that was the value versus purchasing individual bits, and I do have the other sizes in case they are needed in the future.

I have quality tools, and learned from past mistakes on getting cheaper tools. At one time, I had gotten homeowner grade power tools, but for the last 25 years I have gravitated to professional model tools because they are just plain built better, and my money is not down the tubes after a few uses, where I pushed the tool in a project that really called for a better tool. Drills, circular saws, miter saws, etc taught me this lesson. While not a contractor, I have taken on many projects that called for heavy duty use of tools......built decks, built cabinetry for kitchens and baths, remodeling, etc. One finds out in those environments what a tool is made of. I used to have cheaper chainsaws.......changed out to Husqvarna pro models after seeing those small homeowner models just could not cut the mustard in heavy usage. You get my point.

I just wanted to present some thoughtful concepts which might help someone coming along. Turning is an expensive hobby, and frustrations can abound with cheap tools, but one has to find the right balance in quality/value/available budget, and it is best to approach the acquisition of tools slowly, becoming proficient in their use, and not just purchase everything you see advertised........even though that does help the tool vendors. :D I can look back on my turning experiences over the last few years, and honestly say that I really do not have any regrets on my tool acquisitions, with the exception of the Sorby Hollowmaster. [that was a pig! :o]

My approach has served me well.........I invite responses to this discussion with your mindset on how you go about tool acquisition. This thread might just be helpful to a number of folks who are looking to experienced turners for some guidance through the maze of options before us in the turning world.

[Brian Kent]

I really think this is an excellently written post. While I tend to over-analyze and over research, it serves well in helping me get the maximum thoughtful advice before buying.

When selling a used tool, I know the direction of responsibility is different, but I really want the user to have the necessary knowledge, training, and experience to use a tool safely. In a couple of cases that led me to the decision to mercifully throw away a really cheap tool rather than trying to get $4 out of it in a garage sale.

[carl mesaros]

Thanks Roger for giving all of us something to ponder. Woodturning is not an inexpensive hobby for sure. I have thrown "good money after bad" more times than I care to think about. I have learned (finally) to purchase top quality from the beginning. I am on my third lathe and third sharpening system not to mention tool rests and gouges that I thought were "good enough" when purchased. It has been said it only hurts once when you buy the best. Good advice I think.
My present Lathe, A Laguna 2436, does all I can ever ask of a lathe, day after day with absoulutely zero problems. However I still have that longing for that beautiful Oneway 3hp 2436! :)

[John K Jordan]

My mantra has always been "buy good tools, always". When my budget was less I got by with a cheap set of HSS from Sears and did without higher quality tools until I could afford them. One big advantage of starting with just a few tools is you get to know them VERY well.

With a larger budget one can buy a tool just to evaluate it. This is not very useful until proficient with all the other tools in possession. Too many new tools at once, regardless of quality, will just disturb the learning curve.

Even my wife, they ultimate conservative shopper, told me recently that if she has learned one thing from me it is to buy good tools. She buys kitchen tools. We eat like kings.

JKJ

[Don Frank]

A friend had a great quote concerning tools. He says "i have compared tools and purchased the cheaper one and later wished I'd bought the better one but I've never bought the better tool and wished I'd bought the cheaper one".
I think we have all been there!

[Reed Gray]

Once we have been playing for some years, we pretty well know which tools are the best value for the money spent. Problem is some of the new things that come out. Only way to find out is to play with them. Sorby Spindle Masters, nevermore! CBN grinding wheels, forever more!

robo hippy

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Save a bit longer and buy quality if you can’t afford it yet, because

345734
and never mind that some others who have no real knowledge of what a good tool really should be like, are telling everybody how great it is :rolleyes:

[Bob Bergstrom]

I have just thought of other hobbies that seem as expensive if not more costly than turning. Golf was never something for me. Pay green fees, buy your own cart, many sets of clubs, clothes, to say nothing of losing golf balls ever couple holes. Fishing, start with a bamboo pole and work your way up to a fancy fly rod, a boat, trips to Canada or Florida. Bang, what do you have for it? A trophy on the wall. Classic car hobbiest, motorcycles, stamp collecting, or even baseball cards. There are many other "vortexs out there. At least one can sell their turning.

[Mark Greenbaum]

Back when I was a wild and crazy teenager, I auditioned for a band as a lead guitarist and singer. These kids had wealthy parents, and had been provided with resources to buy the biggest, loudest amplifiers known at that time. I failed the audition because I could not be heard!! Not because I was a bad player, just could not be heard over the big boxes. Better equipment does not necessarily make you a better performer. Practice makes you better. Learn with the tools you can afford, and maybe you can upgrade along the way.

BTW: Roger - very well written article; and thanks over and over again for putting your trust and recommendation behind the G0766. I've enjoyed that tool immensely over this past year.

[Steve Arnold]

I have just thought of other hobbies that seem as expensive if not more costly than turning. Golf was never something for me. Pay green fees, buy your own cart, many sets of clubs, clothes, to say nothing of losing golf balls ever couple holes. Fishing, start with a bamboo pole and work your way up to a fancy fly rod, a boat, trips to Canada or Florida. Bang, what do you have for it? A trophy on the wall. Classic car hobbiest, motorcycles, stamp collecting, or even baseball cards. There are many other "vortexs out there. At least one can sell their turning.
I've been turning now for just over a year and needless to say, it hasn't been a cheap hobby to get started it. I'll have to show my wife your post just to illustrate to her than it could have been worse. :D

[Kyle Iwamoto]

My wife gets first pick of anything that comes off the lathe..... Happy wife, happy life. I turned a koa bowl once, and the LOML goes, it's my Mother's Birthday soon, that would look nice on her shelf. Well, I turned it for her........

Turning is indeed costly. I have probably 10 bowl gouges that I have collected over the years.....

[John K Jordan]

I've been turning now for just over a year and needless to say, it hasn't been a cheap hobby to get started it. I'll have to show my wife your post just to illustrate to her than it could have been worse. :D

Well here are a few more you can add to the list when you have this little chat: whitewater kayaking, flying private aircraft, hobby machine shop, keeping llamas and alpacas and especially horses for fun, collecting firearms, boating, astronomy, photography and videography, scuba/cave diving. And as for fishing, tell her we are on our 5th new Jeep just to go surf fishing at the Outer Banks. Woodturning will seem so economical. :-)

What you do is start getting piles of brochures and magazine subscriptions and show her web pages and youtube videos and get excited about the 12" Meade on sale for only $6 grand and she will certainly surprise you with a new lathe for Christmas!

Hmmm, or she may give you a pillow for the couch...

JKJ

[Brian Kent]

John Jordan, I am surprised you don't have listed any equipment for retrieving gold coins from sunken ships.

[Steve Arnold]

Well here are a few more you can add to the list when you have this little chat: whitewater kayaking, flying private aircraft, hobby machine shop, keeping llamas and alpacas and especially horses for fun, collecting firearms, boating, astronomy, photography and videography, scuba/cave diving. And as for fishing, tell her we are on our 5th new Jeep just to go surf fishing at the Outer Banks. Woodturning will seem so economical. :-)

What you do is start getting piles of brochures and magazine subscriptions and show her web pages and youtube videos and get excited about the 12" Meade on sale for only $6 grand and she will certainly surprise you with a new lathe for Christmas!

Hmmm, or she may give you a pillow for the couch...

JKJ
Thanks, you've definitely helped alleviate some of the guilt I've been feeling about this new hobby (or obsession) of mine. :D

[John K Jordan]

John Jordan, I am surprised you don't have listed any equipment for retrieving gold coins from sunken ships.

I know nothing about that. My closest experience there is with an underwater metal detector and it was less than a good hollowing system. The only gold I ever recovered was a man's gold ring from the bottom of Ginnie Springs in Fla - lost a year before on their honeymoon trip, the wife was incredibly excited to get it back. She said they had just replaced it but she was going to put the original through his nose. I wonder what she meant by that...

JKJ

[Larry Frank]

Yes, buying quality tools is a great idea but there is a wide range of economic capability. You buy the best that you can afford even if they are mediocre quality.

+1 on Ginnie Springs and especially the Ballroom...it is one of my favorites. The beautiful clear water springs in Florida are not well known to tourists but incredible places for swimming and diving. Who would expect them in a state known for swamps?

[paul cottingham]

Ok, so I have a twist. I am just getting sucked into the vortex. I am looking to buy a few good, high quality tools. For a virility of reasons that revolve around my mobility and the sever neuropathy I have in my hands I have decide to start out with Easy Wood tools, a rougher and a finisher. I already have them, and they were an excellent decision, as they have allowed me to start turning, and give me confidence. I also have a very good buddy (he actually gave me my lathe) who has MS and his tremors preclude regular lathe tools, but he can use the Easy Wood ones, as they require no "English" if you know what I mean.

my question revolves around what my next tool should be. I am turning bowls, and plan to turn legs. I prefer buying tools from Lee Valley, as it is local, and I like paying cash. I have a tight budget, but don't mind paying once for a good tool. Any recommendations?

[Dennis Ford]

Thanks Roger for starting this thread. Like most I have been on both sides of "wish I had bought better quality" and "did not really need that fancy tool". I have a variety of hobbies centered around working in my shop and and tools that range from HF quality to high end. I am not willing to wait for the budget to catch up when I need a tool for a one-off job, some tools from HF have been good values for this type thing. Tools that I will use often or on work that requires high quality tooling mean "Made in USA" if I can get it. I believe that limiting your search to only cheap tools is a path to frustration. I also believe that limiting your search to only high end tools is a waste of money for tools that get used only for odd jobs. Making my own tools when I can and choosing when to spend $$ for the high end tools is my goal.

[John K Jordan]

+1 on Ginnie Springs and especially the Ballroom...it is one of my favorites. The beautiful clear water springs in Florida are not well known to tourists but incredible places for swimming and diving. Who would expect them in a state known for swamps?

Some friends and I spent years cave diving mostly in northern Florida. There is little more amazing than trekking through briars and bugs in 90-deg weather to a sink hole covered with duckweed that looks like scum, then dropping weightlessly into a water-filled cavern big enough to hold a dozen tractor trailers, where the water is almost as clear as air. Or making a 120' stage dive just to get to the start of the real dive, decompression required coming out. I still have all the equipment - dry suits, hoods, double tanks, regulators, lights, reels, maps, and more if anyone wants it, but most is probably all outdated now. I also have a hundred stories but the audience for them is probably narrow.

If you go into main spring at Ginnie sometime with a lift bag (at night when no one else is there) pick up and look under a big rock just inside the cavern. A friend of mine put a bottle of Jack Daniels there about 30 years ago. It would be interesting to know if it it survived.

JKJ

[Andrew DiLorenzo]

Ok, let's have some lists of tools. I have a cheap set that I thought was first class when I first purchased them, and will use them for a while. I also have a quality bowl gouge that I will not be replacing anytime soon. Nor will I be replacing my lathe soon. How about everything else!

There are many high dollar tools available in the catalogs, or from Woodcraft. Can we have some lists of personal preferences on what to get next, and maybe even why.

I need to have the tool in my hand in order to learn how to use it. I would be satisfied just buying one of a tool rather than a dozen to find a good one. The next step please.

[Reed Gray]

Well, I will probably never buy M2 HSS again. I picked up a Glenn Lucas parabolic flute gouge just to compare the flute shape with others. I have been using just the Thompson and D Way tools which are V 10, and M42 HSS. I was amazed at how quickly the M2 goes dull. Other than that, it is personal preference.

robo hippy

[Dok Yager]

Well written thread Roger! I always try to buy the best tools I can afford. That being said I started out with Benjamins Best turning tools. But I have long since bought Doug Thompson`s tools and a number of other top quality turning tools. As well as investing in a Fine articulated system. I have always bought the best saw blades I can afford for my bandsaw and tablesaw. But my turning tools have become even More important to me over the last 5-6 years. I don`t even consider a turning tool that isn`t of quality anymore. Even my carbide tools have changed to TOL from the ones I bought at first, even though I still use them. I really like the couple of Stuart Batty tools I have and I bought a set of Gladstone tools and was surprised at how nice they are.

[Reed Gray]

I guess I can say that I always try to get the best tools for the job. This, most of the time means spending more money for things that are designed to not wear out, so you throw it away and buy another one. My Irish Grandma who lived through the Depression of 1928 would be proud.... Some times the cheap alternative works better. For thickness calipers, I use the D shaped bent fencing wire that I picked up from Dave Ellsworth. Cheap, infinitely variable, highly functional.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

...Can we have some lists of personal preferences on what to get next, and maybe even why....

Most of my tool purchases are now from Doug Thompson, gouges, skews, scrapers, various sizes. I also buy his round rods and for grinding special tools. Why Thompson? They stay sharp longer.

Before Thompson I usually bought mostly Sorby, some Crown and still use them. They are great quality but I like the Thompson better.

My favorite diamond parting tool is still an old Craftsman. Excellent steel. I have two, would love to find a third.

For carbide I use only Mike Hunter's. Why Hunter? They cut incredibly well, both because of his cutter and the several ways he mounts them in the shaft. (I make my own handles)

I don't buy tools with handles any more. This makes them cheaper.

I buy scads of used turning tools if cheap enough so I can give them to people who need them. Some of these are very cheap tools. Some are cheap and pretty good. The last box had some of Benjamin's Best, the first I've seen, and I tested the hardness with a file as I do all turning tools. Two of the BB tools failed the file test - they were not hardened properly. Some very cheap-looking no-name tools were quite good, others bad. I found that HSS marker on the tool can mean nothing about the quality of the steel or hardness.

And when thinking about tools, don't forget chucks. I stick with Teknitool, some new, some used. There are more expensive chucks that are arguably better but I can't afford a drawer full of some brands. The Nova chucks have done everything I've needed from very small to fairly large.

JKJ