Router Table/Lift vs. Shaper

[Robert Engel]

The dedicated router in my router table is biting the dust. My router lift is a Router Raizer.

With the for a router + lift hovering over $600, why not buy this (http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-1-2-HP-Shaper/G1035?utm_campaign=zPage) shaper?

What don’t I know?

What should I know?

[Andrew Kertesz]

I'm not an expert by any means, so take this with a grain of salt. With a router; cheaper bits, better bit selection, more versatility, can be hand held, better speed selection (depending on the router). I've always associated a shaper with a production environment where you may be swinging large bits (panel raising) on a regular basis. Most of those I believe come in a 1" bore which that shaper doesn't have listed. I'm sure somebody with more knowledge will chime in sooner or later... Just my .02 cents...

[Cody Jensen]

The only two things I notice are that it has pretty low HP, so you are going to struggle if you do use larger bits, and if you just use 1/2" router bits, the spindle speed may be too low to use. 10K rpm maximum seems really low for a lot of operations.

[peter Joseph]

Fair question I've often considered myself. One, you of course have to factor in the cost of buying shaper cutters. Two, when I last considered this I had planned on getting the adapter/collar which allows you to use router bits in a shaper. The feedback that I got was that shapers generally have a lower RPM than a router and that the results I would get with such a set-up would be lackluster. I then got addicted to molding planes and havent though about it since :D

[Jeff Monson]

A shaper is more for raising panels and cutting larger profiles, using larger tooling. You can get a router bit adapter for a shaper but the lower spindle speed doesn't work well with most router bits. I have both and use my router table much more than the shaper, its much quicker to setup and change the speed for the bit I'm using. Dont get me wrong a shaper is a very valuable tool in the shop, but if I had to choose one, it would be the router in a table.

[Prashun Patel]

I considered a shaper too. The hidden cost is the cutters.

[John Lankers]

First of all comparing a router to a shaper is like comparing apples to oranges, universal motor to induction motor. Looking through the Grizzly online catalog I notice they have a huge selection of cutters at a reasonable price. A router spindle installed in a shaper will not give you the RPMS required for smaller router bits, they work best at 20,000 RPM +. I would bet this shaper has no issues performing the work of a router, having said this it can not cut dovetails, v grooves, dadoes ...
With the motor removed and a big router installed in its base it could be a router table on steroids.
My 2 cts.

[Robert Engel]

Thanks everyone.

Let me explain the situation with the router maybe you all have some suggestions:

It is a Hitachi M12V. Problem is it won't start up unless you give a light (to lately heavy) tap with a mallet on the housing, but once running usually stays on, although the last time I used it I had problems with it shutting off during use.

I've check the switch and brushes (even replaced them anyway) - no luck.

The bottom bearing definitely was sticky, so I fixed that - no luck.

Now I'm thinking a break in a field wire or the variable speed controller (part is cost prohibitive) but I don't know any way to test it.

It is so erratic and undependable I'm basically forced to buy a new one - unless you guys have some other suggestions. I

BTW this is the most INfrequently used tool in my shop.

Funny thing is, since this has happened, I've done quite a bit of router work with simply a router clamped in the vise and a large base plate and fence.....wondering if I even need it :-)

[Ben Rivel]

Think Ive got about $1200 invested in my router table. Porter Cable 7815 router motor, Bench Dog cast iron table, Bench Dog steel stand, Incra lift, Bench Dog fence, Rockler steel dust collection box, various other table & dust collection accessories. Still not even close to the price of any shaper I'd consider. That and cutters for shapers are a lot more money than even the best router bits.

[peter Joseph]

Robert, when you referenced 600$ to replace your current set-up you made mention to the router price and the price of the lift. Why do you need to replace the lift?

[pat warner]

Shapers for doors, drawers, windows and architectural work.
Routers for everything else, tho you wouldn't know it with so many big router bits today.
It is not a bad idea to keep router bits under 2" in length or diameter for safety & power reasons.
Moreover, router bits are rated in feet (wear lines show up under 300'), where as shaper cutters are rated on shifts (8-10 hr runs).

[Cary Falk]

I am neither a router table expert or a shaper expert. I have a home made table with a M12V and no lift. I also have a shaper with router collets. I haven't used the router table in years. I run a lot of router bits on the shaper without issue. I had a Grizzly 3hp shaper but hated the fence and now have a Laguna shaper with a fence that I love. I'm not thrilled with the home made fence on my router table. I don't mind below table height adjustment but a good fence is worth it's weight in gold if you ask me. If you like your table and fence I would buy a router that allows for above the table adjustments without a lift. I don't know the models but I know they are out there.

As mentioned, Grizzly has a bunch of shaper cutters as reasonable prices. I also found some Infinity shaper cutters on sale at a reasonable price. Amana, CMT and others make 40 and 50mm insert cutter heads where the insert knives are <$20 a set once you buy the head.

I will say that the shaper is the one tool that makes me take notice when I turn it on. I found a feeder on CL that keeps my fingers away from the blade. A shaper is a slippery slope like a lathe. Smaller pieces I would prefer to do on a router table.

I hope my rambling helped.

[Jared Sankovich]

Having a shaper does not negate the need for a router and router table. However having multiples of both isn't a bad thing.

Shapers are so cheap on the used market there is no reason not to have one, though once you have one you will wish you had a higher hp and heavier model. Then there is the power feeder you will want.

[Robert Engel]

Robert, when you referenced 600$ to replace your current set-up you made mention to the router price and the price of the lift. Why do you need to replace the lift?The Router Raizer is not very accurate.

[Justin Ludwig]

If someone gave me that Grizzly shaper, I'd sell it and buy a router. It's not worth $600. Buy a new router.

[Mike Cutler]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that a shaper will do everything a router will do, when you mount the router in a table, and more.
I would not buy that particular shaper only because it really lacks the power necessary to fully appreciate what a shaper table does. I'm sure it's a very nice machine, but it is underpowered for some tasks.( 3HP would be my minimum for a shaper.)
I'm also not completely buying into the cost benefit of a router mounted in a table over a shaper. Used shapers can be purchased relatively inexpensively. There are Delta 3HP shapers for sale all day long for 1/2 the cost of of finally having a quality router mounted in a table with a raising system.I've seen too many sales of these shapers, complete with heads, for much, much,less than getting a router finally setup.
I have, at last count, 6 routers, ( I found one last week I forgot I had.) Two of them,PC 8529's are dedicated for use in a table. I have two Festool's, OF 2200 and OF 1400. for hand work, a PC 890 and a Milwaukee, There is also a crappy Craftsman but I never use it. I really like routers, and I apologize if I offend any one, but they are not a complete replacement for a shaper, at least not when they limited to being mounted in a table.
Get a shaper. You won't regret it.

[Jared Sankovich]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that a shaper will do everything a router will do

Get a shaper. You won't regret it.

Round overs on small parts come to mind as a place where i wouldnt want to be near a shaper. At least not one running a head at the correct rim speed.

Though I whole heartily agree on the last statement

[John Lankers]

Round overs on small parts come to mind as a place where i wouldnt want to be near a shaper. At least not one running a head at the correct rim speed.

Though I whole heartily agree on the last statement

Workpiece holders, power feeders and proper guards come to mind to deal with smaller stock, sure I wouldn't want to use a 7" panel raiser on coaster sized stock either :).
IMO it doesn't matter whether it's a router or shaper you want to take the appropriate precautions - always, no exceptions!!!

[Rick Potter]

I have two Delta 1 1/2 HP shapers (only need one), and find they work just fine with medium and large router bits. For my home and hobby use they have all the power I need. I do all my raised panels on them and have never lacked for power. I use three passes, but two would work fine. One thing I do not like about them is the fence, so I made router table style fences for them. I almost always use them with router bits.

The smaller bits do not give the crisp edge you can get with a router, especially in pine, so I do all my smaller router work on a router table. I have a full size router table, as well as a couple of the small bench top ones from Rockler ($39 on sale, then build a small base). These I find very handy for a lot of small cuts, like round overs, and I can pop out the trim router from these quickly and use them by hand with the base for the table. Cheap and handy.

My two cents. Works for me.

PS: I am assuming from your post this is a hobby setup for you, not a business.

[Rod Sheridan]

I don't have a router, unless you include my E.C.Emmerich wood router plane and a Porter Cable laminate trimmer.

I have a four speed, tilting spindle, sliding table shaper that's part of my Hammer B3.

I've always used a shaper and wouldn't trade it for a router table under any circumstance.

I mostly make solid wood furniture, the HSS knives for a 40mm Euro block are less expensive than router bits and will machine thousands of feet of profile.

Coupled with a power feeder, and appropriate fence safety items such as the adjustable safety fingers (prevent work from tipping into the opening), the shaper is safer, has much higher capacity, and produces a far better surface finish than a router bit.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. many people don't realize that a shaper with reversible spindle rotation allows you to flip the cutter over for safety (cutter below the work) or for grain direction, something you can't do with a router.

[Joe Jensen]

Shapers are more expensive and the cutters are more expensive. But one you use a shaper with a power feeder and good cutters you will have a hard time again using a router table for that work again. Shapers with a power feeder cut incredibly smooth. Little to no sanding of profiles and no burning or chatter or bad cut surface. And shapers are quiet. Having said that a quality shaper cutter set for making doors will $300-1000 for the rails and styles and the same for the raised panel. But really no comparison on the cut quality.

[glenn bradley]

First let's acknowledge that there are lesser and greater versions of both tools. If we are talking about similarly priced setups (in the general ballpark at least), pick the right tool for the job. A shaper will remove much more material, more easily, in a pass than a router ever could. A router offers you a wide variety of profiles at a reasonable cost.

A shaper with a tilting / reversing head is very versatile but moves out of most folks "hobby" tier of machine. $600 worth of router and lift in a shop made router table can do a lot of different tasks. I have been using my current rig for well over a decade and keep waiting for a reason to update; some task it won't do.

Discussions of the highest shaper speed being slower than the slowest router speed I ever use aside; I do not run a similar profile for many lineal feet at a time, I make small batch (often one-off) furniture that makes the easy variety of the router table my tool of choice. If I moved into larger batch, or larger scale work I would add a shaper but, never ditch the RT.

[Jim Andrew]

I bought Grizzly cutters for the style and rail, as well as raised panel cutter. Work fine for me.

[Mike Cutler]

Round overs on small parts come to mind as a place where i wouldnt want to be near a shaper. At least not one running a head at the correct rim speed.

Though I whole heartily agree on the last statement

Jared
It just takes some forethought, same with a router table. I understand what you're getting at though. Even in school wood shop, the shaper was the one machine the instructor stood right next to while we were using it. The potential for serious injury can be high, if it used incorrectly.
I used to work in boatyards, freelance years ago. Once they needed some heavier wood trim, and parts, made for a boat renovation they were doing. There was an old Delta shaper stuffed in a corner and covered with junk. They didn't use it, and were afraid of it. I cleaned it up and kicked out the mice that had made it a home for a decade or two, which was gross!! . It fired right right up and off I went.I knew I always wanted one of my own.
I've used routers mounted in a table for many years in my shop, and still do. But when I finally had a chance to buy a shaper, from a fellow board member, I grabbed it quick. I'd been looking for a few years, and this one was complete, working, and didn't require a complete rebuild.
Any blade, or cutter head, spinning exposed, is a hazard. Controlling that hazard can the difficult part.