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View Full Version : Hindustan Honing Stone. (Country of origin USA).



Stewie Simpson
10-11-2016, 4:50 AM
Received this Hindustan from the u.k. Dimensions are 8" x 2 1/4" x 5/8". Out of flat on both major surfaces, and badly stained with iron oxide.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0226_zpsnp5auobz.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0226_zpsnp5auobz.jpg.html)

After flattening on 220 loose sic, followed by w & d up to 400 grt, the natural features within the stone become more noticeable.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0231_zpserzpa7ni.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0231_zpserzpa7ni.jpg.html)

The chisel shown was worked with a medium grit Norton Crystolon stone prior to the Hindustan stone. The Hindustan was 1st trialled using Honing Oil, but was rejected soon after due to the dulling effect it had on the cut of the stone. Using water as a stone lubricant was much more successful. Taking into account the rate of cut, and the size of the wire edge formed, my personal opinion is that this stones characteristics was comparable to a Mst Muller 8000 grit.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0235_zpswxca2z2x.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0235_zpswxca2z2x.jpg.html)

Testing the sharpness of cutting edge (straight from the stone). The cutting edge was good enough to cleanly slice through the end grain fibres, but slightly more effort was required, compared to that of another chisel, by the same maker, to the same bevel angle specs, but taken to a higher grit of 12000+ on my Welsh Llyn Idwall Grecian Hone.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0236_zpsq9rnh5ju.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/new%20stropping%20block/natural%20honing%20stones%20purchased%20from%20the %20uk/_DSC0236_zpsq9rnh5ju.jpg.html)

Stewie;

Bill Houghton
10-11-2016, 11:19 AM
Do you know why "Hindustan?" Does it denote country of origin, or is it a marketing name?

Or maybe they were honoring the jazz/Dixieland classic by that name, as performed here by the Preservation Hall band: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl7_R33mJK4

Brian Holcombe
10-11-2016, 11:33 AM
Very interesting!

Prashun Patel
10-11-2016, 12:06 PM
Hindustan means (broadly) India. Is it similar in material to an India stone?

Stewie Simpson
10-11-2016, 12:40 PM
Received some excellent info on the Hindustan from a member on the SRP forum site; http://straightrazorplace.com/hones/129 ... one-2.html (http://straightrazorplace.com/hones/129787-hindostan-hone-2.html)


Hindostan Stones were sold from nearly all the bigger Stone Quarrying Companies, Tool Makers and Trading Companies. The offered mostly two different qualities. To name some of the companies:

- Pike Mfg. & Co. (US)
- William F. Osborn
...have the list somewhere, need to seach for it....

As far as i remember all the historical sources named that the variances are quite big,
the stones show tidal layers which were also used to research historical tidal movements. Those layers do appear in different amounts (they can reach from 9 to 32 layers). The space between those layers can reach from a few mm to some inches or less then 3inches.

Also the coloration seems not be constant and ranges from a yellow, brown towards a reddish or even white coloration.

The stones were also used as a Tombstone on the graveyards. see that reference here:
Whetstone Gravestones » American Scientist

More about the research on tides can be found here, i posted this earlier:
https://igs.indiana.edu/FossilsAndTime/Tidal.cfm

A short quote from that source:
"If you understand the semi daily tidal cycles and the tidal cycles related to the phase of the moon, you can see how tides have affected the thicknesses of the layers in the delicately layered Hindostan whetstone beds. At this point, you are beginning to understand how rocks can record time. You may also be beginning to understand how geologists are able to determine how rocks were originally deposited. We know the whetstone beds were deposited by tides because we know of no other process that would produce such regular thickness changes in the layers of the rock."

Special selected stones and trademarks:
Those stones also appeared in special cut sizes called "Glassmaker Stones", Pike Mfg. also offered different qualities of the Hindostan stones sold as "Hindostan Hackers" or "Hacker Stone".

"The extra Hindostan Hackers are choice, selected white stones, all full size, polished, each stone wrapped in tissue paper and packed in 2 or 3 dozen boxes, and 6 or 4 of these boxes in a case. No. 1 are all good, full sized stones, packed 1 gross in a case.
No. 2 are taken out of the extra and and No. 1 as not good enough for those grades."
Taken from - Pike Mfg. Catalog (1889)

"Hindostan stones are soft and fine gritted and are extremely useful for general sharpening purposes. Best results are obtained by using water. They are supplied in three grades: hard, medium and soft, respectively."
Taken from - Pike Mfg. Catalog 14 (1926)

"Fastcut - These Stones are made from selected Hindostan stock, neatly finished and packed in attractive individual pasteboard boxes. They cut rapidly and impart a medium coarse edge."
Taken from - Pike Mfg. Catalog 14 (1926)

John Vernier
10-11-2016, 7:33 PM
Stewie, thanks for the information and particularly for the Indiana University geological article. I live in Bloomington Indiana not too far from where Hindustan stones were apparently quarried, so this might be worth following up sometime. Interestingly there is a "town" (really a wide spot in the road) north of Bloomington called Hindustan, although the quarry area is supposedly in Orange county about 40mi south. This region is famous for its limestone quarries - most of the stone cut for buildings in Washington DC, and for the Empire State Building in NYC, came from here. Important sedimentary deposits are news to me. My first step will be to take my pocket knife down to the local 19th-century graveyard and see if I can find a headstone to work up a decent edge.

Stewie Simpson
10-11-2016, 7:47 PM
Can someone confirm if the correct spelling is Hindostan or Hindustan.

Stewie;

John Vernier
10-11-2016, 9:04 PM
Hindostan is correct for an area in Martin County Indiana, close to where the stones were quarried according to the Indiana University article you referred to (look up Hindostan Falls on Google Maps). Hindustan is more usual spelling for the Indian subcontinent, and also for the small town in Monroe County Indiana which I mentioned above, but which I see now is probably irrelevant.

There are plenty of odd "foriegn" town names in Indiana as well as all over the American Midwest, and the spelling can be haphazard. Hindostan is not far from Cuzco; not far from here is Gnawbone which some believe to be a corruption of Narbonne. I'll try to not add any more to the confusion.

Stewie Simpson
10-11-2016, 10:00 PM
Thanks John.

Luke Dupont
10-12-2016, 1:30 AM
Very neat. I enjoy learning about obscure stones. I had heard of Hindostan stones before, but did not know anything about them until this post prompted me to do some research.

Info is very scarce, though. I don't see many people talking about them, nor do any come up in an ebay search at the moment. They're somewhat rare, I assume?

Prashun Patel
10-12-2016, 9:00 AM
As much as you can trust the internet (Indolink)....

I think "Hindostan Falls" is the correct name of the town.

"But why the name Hindostan? As it turned out, Captain Caleb Fellows had served the British East India Company in India, earning a fortune. According to INDIANA MAGAZINE of HISTORY VOL.XVI, NO.4 (December 1920), p.285, “Captain Caleb Fellows, one of the company, gave the town its name. Captain Fellows had resided in India many years. Things now looked so bright for a fortune, he said, 'let it be Hindostan'".

It appears the spelling and pronunciation became altered when it was adopted.

I think it wonderful and hilarious that Hindostan Falls is in "Indiana". Now, that's irony.

Stewie Simpson
10-12-2016, 9:02 AM
Thanks Prashun.

Stewie;

Patrick Chase
10-12-2016, 1:12 PM
Stewie, thanks for the information and particularly for the Indiana University geological article. I live in Bloomington Indiana not too far from where Hindustan stones were apparently quarried, so this might be worth following up sometime. Interestingly there is a "town" (really a wide spot in the road) north of Bloomington called Hindustan, although the quarry area is supposedly in Orange county about 40mi south. This region is famous for its limestone quarries - most of the stone cut for buildings in Washington DC, and for the Empire State Building in NYC, came from here. Important sedimentary deposits are news to me. My first step will be to take my pocket knife down to the local 19th-century graveyard and see if I can find a headstone to work up a decent edge.

I grew up in Bloomington up to age 13 - I was about to say most of the same stuff.

Why would one choose one of these stones over an Ark for sharpening? From what I remember of Indiana geology I would expect the locally quarried stone to be strictly inferior to Arks for honing. Indiana was/is more about high-volume limestone quarrying for structural and decorative applications.

Speaking of those quarries: Anybody else remember the refrigerator-in-a-quarry-scene from Breaking Away? I was one of the "crowd extras" in the Little 500 scenes filmed in the old stadium...

John Vernier
10-12-2016, 4:42 PM
I remember that movie! I came to Bloomington in the early 90s for grad school, met my wife here and we moved away (10 years in Los Angeles), but now we're back.

This is just a guess, until better info comes to light, but remember that Indiana was being settled heavily in the 1810s, and was connected to the east via the Ohio river and its tributaries. Hindostan stones were being quarried and shipped maybe a generation or two before Arkansas and Washita stones were commercially viable. Whatever the merits of the Hindostan stones (which I'm suddenly very interested to try), their commercial life does seem to have been short lived. The town seems to have been wiped out by disease in 1820, and if quarrying continued in the area after that, it doesn't seem to have been on a very large scale. Whether that has to do with perceived stone quality, quarry conditions or railroad access - that's a question it might be very hard to answer 175 years later.

Rafael Herrera
09-28-2020, 3:09 PM
I know this is an old thread, but I just found an Hindostan stone and thought of adding some pictures to this thread.

This page is from a pamphlet by the Pike Mfg. Co. regarding Hindostan stones.

442144

Here is mine, fitted into a beech box.

442145

The stone is about 7/8" thick, this side view shows the sediment layers due to the tidal cycles.

442146

A very detailed history of the Hindostan stone can be found here: https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/06ecfb11865b413798539083a0c53721