Choosing a band saw

[Matthew Schneider]

I have a fear of table saws, so I'm trying to do without. This involves more extensive use of a band saw, but the band saw I bought (old 12" craftsman 113) seems inadequate for a number of reasons: the blade wanders back and forth on the wheel, the table isn't flat, and the guides don't meet the blade right. Fixable problems, but I'd rather not put more money into it.

So now I'm considering my options for replacing it. Mainly, I need to be able to accurately square lumber and resaw.

I'm pretty poor (I'm hoping that woodworking will help me out of poverty), so price is a big issue, but if possible I'd rather not buy an inadequate saw and have to upgrade later.

The options I'm looking at so far:
The Porter Cable 14" saw from Lowes. It's the cheapest option at $450. No fence, but I have a Kreg fence. It has guide blocks instead of bearings, which the internet seems to be saying is better.

Shop Fox W1706. $300 more than the Porter Cable. It looks more solid, and has cast iron wheels.

Grizzly G0555LX "Deluxe Bandsaw". Looks very similar to the Shop Fox, but uglier and $100 cheaper.

Presently the Porter Cable seems the most compelling for the price.

[Jim Becker]

Bandsaws can be very versatile, but do keep in mind that the finish of the cut will not be anything close to a table saw or a high quality track saw. You're also going to need a jointer and thickness planer (or some good hand planes) to clean up and final dimension what you cut with the band saw. It's the nature of the machine.

Of those you mention, the Shop Fox or Grizzly (same company... ;) ) are the ones to zero in on. I doubt that the PC will make you smile as much as the heavier machines. But also consider that quite often folks that decide to center their shop around a band saw will go for a heavier, bigger machine, so they can run wider blades at higher tension for cleaner rips, etc.

[Andrew Hughes]

(I'm hoping that woodworking will help me out of poverty)

Good luck.

Aj

[Geoff Crimmins]

I've not heard especially good things about the Porter Cable bandsaw, but the Grizzly and Shop Fox saws are usually pretty good. Of course you'll get more saw for the money if you can find a good deal on a used one, and know how to check it out to make sure nothing is broken. Tell us a little more about what you would like to use the saw. When you talk about ripping and dimensioning boards, what length and thickness of boards would you typically be cutting? And how wide of boards would you like to be able to resaw? There's a big difference between resawing a 5" wide board and a 12" wide board. Answers to questions like this will help everyone give you better advice.

--Geoff

[Matt Day]

(I'm hoping that woodworking will help me out of poverty)

Good luck.

Aj

+1.

If you are strapped for cash, why would you buy new in the first place? Educate yourself on what's out there, be diligent, check craigslist frequently,
And be ready to pounce on a good deal.

[Matthew Schneider]

I'd probably save about $100 for a used band saw compared to the Porter Cable, assuming there isn't a sale within a reasonable amount of time. And there's some risk in not noticing something wrong with it. And the ones I've seen don't look any better from what I can tell. Not that I'm not open to buying used if I do come across a good deal on a good saw.

I won't be resawing more than 6" or ripping/dimensioning longer than probably 5 feet less than or equal to 2" thick.

[mark kosse]

Matt, you might post your location. Someone might help you out.

[Tom Trees]

Find yourself a used 20" + saw ....
Doesn't matter if its 3 phase as long as the motor states on the nameplate anywhere 220/240v ......that's low voltage
Right now I'm lookin at 3HP Chinese VFD's for 135 dollars shipped to the states .

That's single phase IN .........simulated 3 phase out
A start and a stop switch will together cost about 3 bucks :)
Don't let three phase discourage ..it is a blessing in your case as your strapped .....
and the machines are a totally different league ....no more biscuit tin machines .
Never looking back ...plus now I realistically have a solution for proper dust extraction even with my puny supply !

Have FUN
Good luck

[Allan Speers]

Find yourself a used 20" + saw ....
Doesn't matter if its 3 phase as long as the motor states on the nameplate anywhere 220/240v ......that's low voltage
Right now I'm lookin at 3HP Chinese VFD's for 135 dollars shipped to the states .

Those super-cheap Chinese VFD's have an incredibly bad reputation. Very high rate of failure.

YMMV, but I recommend getting the next step up, which would be TECO, Hitachi, etc. Probably around $200 for a 1.5 HP, and infinitely more dependable.

[John TenEyck]

You didn't say why you are afraid of table saws, but I recommend you work to over come those fears through training with a qualified instructor/program. A table saw is with only a little argument the most versatile piece of power equipment you can have in your shop. And the really good news is you can buy very serviceable used ones cheap, like $150 cheap for a Sears CI. Your odds of finding a good bandsaw at that price is about like winning the lottery. I've used one for 30 years and it's still running fine. I prefer my Unisaw, but the Sears still justifies its space in my shop. In any case, a table saw can do so much more than a bandsaw. If you really want to learn to make cabinets, etc. efficiently, and have any desire to make money at it, you should reconsider your choice of using a bandsaw as your primary means of cutting wood.

John

[Charles P. Wright]

I had an inexpensive bandsaw (benchtop for about $100) and a reasonably priced contractor table saw (RIDGID for $420). The table saw was by far my go-to machine. I've now got a top notch band saw (MM16), and the quality of cuts is in a whole other league compared to an inexpensive bandsaw, but still isn't quite as clean as my table saw. Granted, you have a 12" and I had a 9" benchtop, but I think we were suffering from the same problems like the blade not having enough tension to really keep straight.

If you're looking to do this for the money, I think you should go with a table saw [I say this as an experienced amateur]. With the price range you're in, an inexpensive one bolted to a bench would be fine I think.

Just make sure to use push sticks, make sure you are following good safety practices (e.g., no rip fence with a miter gauge), and you should be fine. If you aren't careful, either machine can hurt you.

[Greg Woloshyn]

Automation Direct is a USA company that builds very high quality VFDs and priced around the same as the other chinese brands. I own two and am very happy with them.

[Mike Kees]

I agree with Charles and John that a tablesaw is the best option for you starting out. My recommendation would be a delta or rockwell 10 contractor saw preferably with a unifence or biesemeyer fence. A 30'' fence will do 90 percent of all you ever need. These saws can be found cheap, I just bought one the other day for 160 dollars with a 30 unifence. These saws work well, have adequate power and hold their adjustments well. If you go the bandsaw route look for a used Delta 14 or Powermatic. Good luck, Mike.

[lee cox]

If you are looking for an inexpensive bandsaw you should consider an old Delta 14 inch. They are solid machines and there are a million of them around. Parts are easy to find. It should cost less than $500.

[Prashun Patel]

You're desire to purchase a bandsaw-as-replacement-for-tablesaw and financial condition make this a difficult proposition.

Due respect, I would NOT get a Porter Cable or other small saw. If it were me, I would wait for a good deal on an 18" or larger saw. One with a rigid frame. There are good deals on used equipment, or if you can scrape together between 1000 and 2000, then the Grizzly's are formible users in their price category.

As a replacement for a table saw, you want mass, stability and capacity.

Trading your Craftsman for another cheap saw is a gamble I personally would not take.

[Victor Robinson]

You're desire to purchase a bandsaw-as-replacement-for-tablesaw and financial condition make this a difficult proposition.

Due respect, I would NOT get a Porter Cable or other small saw. If it were me, I would wait for a good deal on an 18" or larger saw. One with a rigid frame. There are good deals on used equipment, or if you can scrape together between 1000 and 2000, then the Grizzly's are formible users in their price category.

As a replacement for a table saw, you want mass, stability and capacity.

Trading your Craftsman for another cheap saw is a gamble I personally would not take.


This is good advice. 14-ish bandsaws can be a great value, but absolutely NOT if you are trying to make it the center of your workshop instead of a tablesaw. I have the Grizzly 0555 and while it is really an excellent saw for the money, I am occasionally disappointed when I want to use it as more of a workhorse dimensioning lumber anything beyond a one-off. It just doesn't have the stability and power that would be ideal for that, not to mention that there is significant clean up required at the jointer and planer. Yes, you can squeeze a lot out of the smaller saws with proper adjustments, some upgrades, good blades, etc., but IMHO they will still fall short in that role.

Look for a 17"+ saw used.

[Matthew Schneider]

What do 17"+ saws typically cost used? There's none in my area at the moment.

I'm not concerned about the smoothness of the cut, a light pass on the jointer is no big deal. It has to be square though, which my saw is failing to do, presumably because of the issues I've mentioned and the aluminum frame. I assumed that a well tuned saw 14" inch saw with a cast iron frame with be a sufficient upgrade, but perhaps not?

Can anyone comment on cast iron vs steel frames? I've heard conflicting reports. Most of the the larger saws saws seem to have steel frames. Does this account for a large amount of the difference?

[Rich Riddle]

I consider the bandsaw the most dangerous saw in the shop. Mine is so quiet you won't know it's running at times. I also agree on getting a better saw than the ones you listed. You can likely get a vintage unit in decent shape for the cost of the Chinese models you discuss. Where are you located?

[Carroll Courtney]

I feel your pain when it comes to wanting something and not having enough cash.Over the yrs I have only purchase one new machine which was a spindle sander from griz new.All my other machines were used or very used,which all needed some TLC but that is what put them in my price range,just the other day was a 14" Delta/Rockwell BS for 200.00 and no I did not buy it.So point being,check your local paper,watch out for auctions and check CL's daily.You will come across one that will be better than buying new in your price range.Be ready to invest alittle time in tuning it up.Be optimistic-----Carroll

[Matthew Schneider]

I'm noticing now that the Wen 14" saw seems to have a steel frame, and claims it can take 1" blades. Which it probably can't adequately, but perhaps that's a sign of frame strength?

When you say the band saw is the most dangerous, I'm assuming you mean the band saw gets it's danger from the same place as hand tools, in that it isn't dangerous enough for you to worry.

[Art Mann]

Those who recommend the purchase of a used saw must realize that in many parts of the country, including where I live, there are very few used band saws for sale that are worth buying. I scan Craigslist in a hundred mile radius for used tools and I see maybe 5 or 6 14 inch cast iron Deltas or Grizzlys a year. The steel frame saws of 14 or 17 inchs pop up maybe once or twice a year. I have seen only one 20 inch band saw, which was an old Craftsman, in 5+ years of looking. Maybe Matthew is in a more favorable location but he may be waiting for months or years to find a good one that isn't sold before he gets there.

[Victor Robinson]

Those who recommend the purchase of a used saw must realize that in many parts of the country, including where I live, there are very few used band saws for sale that are worth buying. I scan Craigslist in a hundred mile radius for used tools and I see maybe 5 or 6 14 inch cast iron Deltas or Grizzlys a year. The steel frame saws of 14 or 17 inchs pop up maybe once or twice a year. I have seen only one 20 inch band saw, which was an old Craftsman, in 5+ years of looking. Maybe Matthew is in a more favorable location but he may be waiting for months or years to find a good one that isn't sold before he gets there.

I agree, and though I'm one of the folks advocating buying a larger saw used, it's not something I'd be easily able to accomplish where I live. But if you ARE in an area where decent larger saws come up for sale, expect to pay in the mid hundreds. As a point of reference, Grizzly's lowest end 17"/2hp can be had new for 900.

Of course, as many of us do, you may just end up buying a smaller saw because that's what you can afford now, and then upgrade later on. You might lose more money in the long run this way but it may be the only feasible path, which is sometimes easy for some of us to forget when we're giving advice with hindsight. We're just focusing on the functionality and the fact that the small saws may fall short of your expectations or intended uses.

[Art Mann]

. . . Grizzly G0555LX "Deluxe Bandsaw". Looks very similar to the Shop Fox, but uglier and $100 cheaper.

Shop Fox is the retail brand for the Grizzly direct sales equipment and in most cases, they are identical except for the color. I believe that is the case here.

[Rich Riddle]

When you say the band saw is the most dangerous, I'm assuming you mean the band saw gets it's danger from the same place as hand tools, in that it isn't dangerous enough for you to worry.Nope, not at all what I meant. Have you ever watched a butcher cut meat? What kind of saw does he utilize? A band saw. They're far more dangerous than most others if not all others. I have my bandsaw wheel painted in quarters so that when it spins I can see through the glass window to know it's spinning. Did you mention where you are located?

[lee cox]

I am old school in that I would never replace my table saw with a bandsaw not that I am any expert in wood working. I have had several kick backs none real bad. I just stand to one side or the other when using the table saw. I had a dewalt portable kick back on me once. It was not even my saw. It usually is not a problem if that is stopping you from using one.

[Van Huskey]

I consider the bandsaw the most dangerous saw in the shop.

I consider the TS much more dangerous than a BS, maybe because BS are my thing and some might say BS is my thing too...

While 20" or even 6" of exposed blade during a resaw can be intimidating the chances of getting KILLED (while still very low) from a TS are much higher than a bandsaw. I have seen TS kickbacks drive a 2X through a wall, in an unfortunate set of events it could drive it through your head. But all of this is just chatter because it comes down to what someone feels comfortable with. While I have respect for both I consider methods of cutting on the TS longer than on a BS, again it may be my personal bias and comfort level, the only machine I think more about is the shaper.

I can't really recommend a BS to replace a table saw at this budget, not even multiples of this budget, maybe a 36" saw but even if it was free dealing with a saw weighed in tonnage is likely not an option.

The real answer here is if the OP wants to aviod a table saw and stay within a relatively tight budget then a track saw is the answer, in almost all cases it does a better job at replacing a TS than a BS. A tracksaw and a table built for cross cutting (similar to a Festool MFT <similar since a Festool system is likely not in the budget) and some imagination (agmented by youtube) will provide a safe and relatively inexpensive TS replacement.

I imagine the OP's fear is from considering TSs in his budget, the small light saws are exponentially more dangerous to use IMHO.

[Tom Trees]

Hi again
If you're like me ..and real broke , You should be looking for all the machines you foresee to own in the future.
If you cant find a bandsaw / band saw ....I can type in this one in blindfolded :) BTW
in the next 8 months you should see a tablesaw /table saw .....
so search for" bandsaw "and " saw " at the same time .
If you're scared of tablesaws it will make you watch over 3 hours of LEARNING on youtube ....
this will get you started ...
I must say though i have not used my TS yet ! or should i say TS's now :D

Unless you don't care about educating yourself and jump straight in !!! .....to me you don't sound that type .
THERE IS loads of wrong ways to do things that seem like plain sailing that's totally dangerous
which can be cut safely but may require the construction of a jig ....

In a good shop you need both
Tom

[Jim Finn]

I agree. A table saw is very useful . I have one and also a G0555 band saw. I bought this, one horsepower, saw eight years ago and have used it mostly for re-sawing. I have since replaced the guide bearings with locally purchased bearings @$6 each and one $6 part from grizzly once. (Not bad for daily use over seven years). Re-sawing requires a sharp blade, for sure. I make small artsy crafty items, mostly of cedar, oak , walnut, and maple that I re-saw to 3/8" thickness. When just a little dull you will get "drift" when my cuts start to wonder I replace or sharpen my blade. I get my 1/2" x 105" carbide re-saw blades from "SuperCut" for $25.

[Curt Harms]

It is possible to get near table saw quality cuts from a bandsaw but likely not with a 14" Delta cast iron clone and $15 blade. An adequately tensioned high quality carbide tipped blade will yield a high quality cut but it takes a very stout 16"+ bandsaw to tension that type of blade. The blade alone runs $150+ depending on brand and length.

[Jon Endres]

I have a fear of table saws, so I'm trying to do without.

This is the part that you will spend time and money trying to overcome, by substitution of methods and materials. Think about what kind of woodworking you want to do, the processes that can be easily accomplished using a table saw, and what machines or hand tools you will have to bring into play because you don't have the table saw. Personally, I don't consider my table saw indispensable, because I have other ways of getting the same results without a lot more effort, but it is awfully convenient. This assumes, of course, that you do have access to other methods. I can rip, crosscut, miter, dado, perform nearly every function normally expected of a table saw with other machines or hand tools, but here's the thing: none of those other tools are a bandsaw.

My bandsaw (A Delta Platinum 14" with riser) sits in a corner of the shop and is probably my least-used major machine at the moment. However, it does a few things really well and that is what I use it for. Examples being cutting bowl blanks out of logs, resawing, and cutting irregular or difficult materials with relative ease. Last week I was using it to cut 2" x 6" rectangles out of 1/8" thick polycarbonate sheeting. Doing that on the table saw was not an option for me. This morning I pulled it out because my wife wanted me to slice some dried tree (shelf) fungus in half for a Girl Scout project. I can't see that being easily done with any other tool in the shop, including by hand.

I guess my point is that for many woodworking options, a good table saw is the most convenient and simple way to accomplish the task. A bandsaw, although useful, is generally not a reasonable substitute. I would consider focusing on a good track saw for rip cuts, a router and appropriate bits and jigs for dados, rabbets and other stopped cuts, and a decent miter saw for crosscuts. However, if you have, for example, a 10' long 1x1 that you need to cut in half lengthwise, a table saw or bandsaw (or a radial arm saw if you have one) is probably the only way you're going to make that cut cleanly and quickly, and you'll still have to clean up the cut if you use the bandsaw.

[Matthew Schneider]

Rich Riddle,
I've heard the meat band saws being brought up in the context of band saws being dangerous a few times. Of course, they are dangerous in the basic sense that they can cut through you quite well. Consider this though: kitchen knives are frequently used for cutting meat whereas most power tools including table saws aren't. Band saws are safe in that they won't do anything sudden and unpredictable.

I'm already familiar with the relative benefits of table saws and band saws. Like I said, the craftsman band saw is almost working out fine for me. I'm just not sure what a suitable upgrade would be for reliable dimensioning.

[Jim Becker]

Band saws are safe in that they won't do anything sudden and unpredictable.

...until that blade snaps the first time and you need to change your underwear... ;) Seriously, please do not assume that a band saw cannot do anything sudden and unpredictable because that's not the case, and many of us have personal experience with that.

[rudy de haas]

Hi:

I feel your pain about cost, but it comes down to a value for money issue. I bought my table saw, jointer, bandsaw, and planer from busybee (grizzly for Canada) on a showroom demo unit clearout sale. Paid too much relative to used prices, but less than list -and what I got for the money was not having to know enough about the things to know if the tool was going to be reliable or not. I bought my shaper used, not because I understand its internals, but because I trusted the guy selling it and had played a bit with the delta this unit (another craftex) is modelled on.

Some conclusions you may want to consider include:

0 - used makes financial sense, but caveat emptor! - you need to know quite a lot about the tools you're looking at to know a bargain from a money sink.

1 - nothing beats a cabinet saw for accuracy and repeatability. Track saws are cool, but 500 pounds of cast iron and 3HP beats them every time.

2 - nothing beats a 14" bandsaw for little stuff like cutting a one inch notch, a vertical edge inside something, or half a circle - but the finish is usually terrible and almost always needs more work.

3 - the most dangerous thing in the shop is a wife with an opinion. Table saws are predictable and safe if you are careful. Mistakes happen - and when they do having all that weight in the saw means that only the wood moves - rapidly, of course, and usually with unpleasant consequences; but overall a heavy saw is much safer than a contractor saw because you don't have to expect the saw to move too.

I understand fear, but courage consists of over coming fear, not of not feeling it; so if you want to do woodwork, I'd suggest that you get a heavy saw and make friends with it.

4 - one option you may have is to find an experienced friend who can help you become confident using his (or her) saw, and then help you pick a bargain out of the used market. It depends, I guess, on where you live and who you know.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I'm confused by how this thread was presented. What is the basis for your fear of table saws? If you take the time to set one up properly and use common sense and proper technique, then the danger factor diminishes (it's always still there, as it is with any tool...) The table saw is so convenient and versatile that I don't really see the logic for intentionally going with out one, if you are planning to actually make an income from working wood, short of going neanderthal and that's a whole other slippery slope.

What sorts of things do you normally build/want to build?

You've received a lot of good advice in this thread thus far from folks trying to get some clearer answers about what your goals are. I've found that being broke/little cash flow and looking for equipment to be generally frustrating and stressful if you are in a hurry and feel like you "need it now." It's better to be patient, but diligent in your searching and be ready to pounce when your tools come up that look promising. Spending continuous time researching further tools/usage/future plans nearly always pays off in the end when it comes time to buy and setup your own new-to-you equipment. It's also invaluable to have a friend or two that knows more than you do and has some experience to learn from.

There's a saying in the auto racing world that applies to many things in life. Fast, cheap, reliable. Pick two.

[Van Huskey]

1 - nothing beats a cabinet saw for accuracy and repeatability. Track saws are cool, but 500 pounds of cast iron and 3HP beats them every time.

2 - nothing beats a 14" bandsaw for little stuff like cutting a one inch notch, a vertical edge inside something, or half a circle - but the finish is usually terrible and almost always needs more work.

1. There are a fair number of situations where a track saw is safer, more efficient or both than a cabinet saw, that is why many of us have both.

2. If the finish is usually terrible off a bandsaw the procedure needs improvement or a more appropriate blade for the cut needs to be used assuming the saw is setup correctly.

[Mike Cherry]

I've seen a lot of comments about the quality of the cut with the bandsaw. Perhaps it's because I started woodworking as a total neander, but I don't see the problem with using a handplane to clean the marks up. You may reduce how much sanding will be needed. Is this not an option? There are lots of hand tool converts whose only machine in the shop is a bandsaw specifically for ripping and resawing. It might be an option.

I agree that that posting your location and what type of projects your doing could help you get better advice. If all you need to do is rip 3/4" pine boards a table saw might be overkill. I can rip pine all day with a handsaw, bad back and shoulder be damned!

[Matthew Schneider]

I ended going with the Grizzly G0555lanv, on sale for $550ish after shipping (same as the G0555lx, but better colors). It seems mostly great. I decided to try my luck with a cheap $10 powertec blade for ripping, 1/2" 6tpi, which probably wasn't a great idea. It's slightly uneven at the weld and doesn't seem to be very sharp, and was actually making the sawdust smoke (though not burning the wood itself).

Still, it seems to be working well enough. After cleaning up a 36" inch rip cut in ~1" of soft maple, I measured both ends with a caliper. One end was 0.015" off from the other, which I think is good enough.

[glenn bradley]

Congrats on the saw. Cheap tires on a BMW will still ride poorly. You have a good platform established, don't throw junk cutters at it or you will be disappointed. Although most of my solutions for a critical cut mentally involve the tablesaw I could survive with a monster bandsaw and my hand tools. You will need to give your smaller saw every advantage; good cutters, possibly some ballast for mass, I find link belts and 'cool blocks' on my smaller saws help them not do the watusi quite so much when I am pushing their capacity limits.