Tuning a Transitional Smoother

[Mark R Webster]

I have re-soled and have been trying to tune a small Sargent transitional smoother. I am wondering if I am expecting too much from the old guy. I want to be able to get a very fine consistent shaving. I have just over a 1/16” throat in front of the original iron, which has a 25 primary 30 secondary bevels. The iron is hair shaving sharp. I have contact behind the iron from the top of the frog to the bottom of the sole. The cap iron is set to about 1/16”. The bottom of the plane is dead flat. I am having trouble getting a fine shaving. The iron is either not cutting or cutting too deep. It feels like what you find with a plane that is not flat in front of the iron. Any ideas on what may be causing the problem? Are these planes just destined to be mediocre?
Thanks
Mark

[steven c newman]

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I checked for flatness of the entire sole. I also used a LARGE plane to make it flat
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This is an Ohio Tool Co. No. 035 smooth plane. Took almost as long on the body as it did to get the iron flat and sharp..
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Mine had an issue with the chipbreaker.....was the wrong one. Made a few adjustments..
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After each, the shavings got thinner. I like this style better than the smaller ones..
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[peter Joseph]

They'll never be Lie Nielsens but they can be tuned up to be more than "functional" especially in softwoods. I was in an antique shop a couple years back and left with nearly a dozen transitionals for 15$ a piece. Most are tuned up and in use. I love the blade adjustment on the liberty bells.

Anyway, I'll try and explain this as best I can. On a metal plane, as I'm sure you know, the frog supports the back of the blade all of the way to the sole. On a transitional, the metal frog supports the blade until it goes into the thick wooden sole. On some of my planes, there was a very small gap between the back of the blade and the wood sole which caused symptoms like you described. To fix this you need to adjust the metal portion of the plane (for lack of a better description) back so that the blade is well supported. these planes tend to work best with a nice camber as well.

Good luck
Peter

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Steven...
Peter... Actually I was trying to tune to cut like my LN, I know I know... a lofty goal.... ;) Anyway I was planing cherry for testing, I have the metal frog positioned as best I can so it lines up with the wooden slope, so I think I have the iron supported on the back side all the way to the bottom of the plane. Which is why I don't understand why it is behaving this way.

[James Pallas]

Mark, You may try checking the sole again. As the heel of the plane starts to bare on the surface if the plane rocks back on the heel just a little it changes everything. I worked on one of those for a long time a few years ago. I finally got it working pretty well. Just don't leave it in your truck outside in the hot humid summer, that changes everything:).
Jim

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Jim, I will double check. Another characteristic is if I start in the middle of the board the iron won't bite, but without changing the depth of cut, if I start the plane with the iron off the board, it catches. I know that sounds like it isn't flat or sharp...but it sure looked flat to me, I jointed and lapped on flat surface with sandpaper, checked with straight edge. :confused:

[Matt Kjolsrud]

I had the same issue yesterday. I was planing away, pulled the blade to sharpen it, put it back in, and got the symptoms you are describing. Pulled the blade, went back to the stones, lowered the angle, and everything turned up roses. My bevel angle was too steep, so it was riding on the heel.

[James Pallas]

Mark One more thing. Make sure you have the iron in and locked down before checking for flatness.
Jim

[Mark R Webster]

Ok thanks!
Mark

[george wilson]

I could have had a whole toolroom of old,but mostly like new transitional planes,their pristine dark yellow varnish looking very nice. Especially in a large group. With them were wooden spoke shaves and other nice tools from the same era. I don't know what tools the students in that shop were using. But,the tools in that toolroom weren't suffering much.

They were in an old school shop toolroom that was being upgraded to new tools back in 1963. I taught woodworking and drafting across the hall. They were probably getting tossed. At that time,no one seemed to care about old tools. I was 21,and enamored of getting nice new tools for my school shop,which I was re equipping. It was bare except for the machines and work benches. I have no idea where the previous hand tools had gone,but my toolroom was bare.

If I had the knowledge I acquired later,and the storage space,I could have made a fair amount of money if I just put them away for 20 years!

[Mark R Webster]

I know what you mean. They are getting harder and harder to find and more and more expensive. :(

[Glen Canaday]

I still have three of those to resto/tune up. Two are Stanley Siegleys with the StS irons, and a Stanley 30.

I've tried the Siegley 31 size, and even without tuning it I loved it immediately. So light, but still so huge!

[Mark R Webster]

They are nice!