Now THIS is un-nerving-- Beware of what you type...

[Kev Williams]

2 days ago I responded to Mayo Pardo's post in the engraving section, to do with his line-cutting issues:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?247782-Tried-cutting-metallic-faced-thin-posterboard-residue-around-cut-lines-problem

--my post reads as follows--

Wiping soot & goo off laser cut parts is tantamount to deburring metal parts fabbed in a machine shop- it's just part of the process, and not a lot you can do about it.

And this morning, I get this email...
345332
"Let's make deburring more fun"....

Seriously??

There is no possible way this is a coincidence. The engraving business is generally regarded as a 'marking' industry, to do with awards, name badges, etc... It is NOT regarded as part of the "machining" industry. Therfore, the odds of anyone just randomly correlating my engraving business with a machine shop business and me getting email spam for a better deburring tool 2 days after I used the word "deburring" online, is simply astronomical.

And the un-nerving part, where did they get my email address?? I suppose the same computer algorithm that found the word "deburring" was also able to track down what can loosely be described as "my website", and got it there, but I have to wonder, did maybe they get it HERE?

For a long time now I've refused to type certain words or initials in emails, online forums, or any other 'internet venue' just because I've always felt, someone is checking... Maybe I'm paranoid, but, someone is... :mad:

<< edit >> -- I also just noticed they used my name in the ad, "Hello Kevin"....
AND- as you can see in the pic, the email address they sent to was "kevin@"-- the email on my website is "info@"...
NOT cool....

[Rich Riddle]

How would they get your e-mail address through the Creek? They could have a representative pm you, but not e-mail you. At least not from here.

[Kevin Nathanson]

The following assumes you are a small business and have suitable control over your email server:

One thing people can do to trace where spam and solicitations come from is to set-up a catch-all account on their email servers, where all email to the domain that has an unknown user name lands. So 'geek@whatever.com' would land there if there was not already a specific account set up for 'geek'.

Then, whenever you enter an email address on a site, event sign up, invite, purchase, whatever... Use the site's name as the account: smc@whatever.com. amazon@whatever.com. etc.

When you start getting emails to 'amazon@whatever.com' that are NOT from 'amazon'? Bingo; you know who is harvesting, listing, selling, trading, scraping your email address.

K

[Kev Williams]

I have a bunch of email aliases for similar purposes; like whenever someone wants an email address before I can get a price quote, etc, I use something like 'online@', which will go to my server but not my computer...

Rich, I'm not pointing fingers at the Creek, but at hackers in general... However, I just checked, and 'kevin@' is NOT the address registered with the Creek, so this sn't the source... :)

[glenn bradley]

No real hacking required. Many of the things you routinely click OK on allow the use of all sorts of things. Some plug-in, game or advertiser asks; "Want a free puppy? All you have to do is click OK allowing us access to all your cache, images, browsing history, plug-ins, add-ons and habits blah, blah, blah." They just never say it that clearly. The bulk of the problems we solve for folks at work are found to be self inflicted once the forensics are complete. We think we are careful but, sometimes we're in a hurry or just can't be bothered to be thorough.

[Frederick Skelly]

I agree. It's concerning to me too. What Glenn described makes sense. For example, I have often wondered why my former email provider sets the default at "stay logged in for 2 weeks". My suspicion (with no proof), is that the terms of service allow them to do some data harvesting whenever I was logged in.

[Rich Riddle]

I agree. It's concerning to me too. What Glenn described makes sense. For example, I have often wondered why my former email provider sets the default at "stay logged in for 2 weeks". My suspicion (with no proof), is that the terms of service allow them to do some data harvesting whenever I was logged in.
Now this is quite easy to believe. And cookies can be down-right insidious to computer users.

[Bruce Page]

Now this is quite easy to believe. And cookies can be down-right insidious to computer users.
Remember when cookies first came on the scene years ago? Everybody was scared to death of them (I was) and would deny or delete them ASAP. Now it's an everyday fact of life and most of our computers have literally hundreds of them stored.

[Jim Becker]

SMC doesn't disclose your email address, but as others have mentioned, it's likely picked up in many ways from many places. That combined with various tracking codes and ad technologies used pretty much everywhere makes it easy to tie something you type in one place with information collected from other places when it comes to advertising. It's the nature of the Internet.

That said, it also could have been a very weird coincidence... :D

[Prashun Patel]

The problem is, how in the world can you avoid it short of unplugging completely?

[Bruce Page]

The problem is, how in the world can you avoid it short of unplugging completely?
You can't.

..

[glenn bradley]

The problem is, how in the world can you avoid it short of unplugging completely?


You can't.

..

But, you can greatly reduce your exposure profile. Like having a locking front door latch and a deadbolt, staying secure online requires that you do a little something extra. One thing I do is have all my browsers release and purge everything on exit. I don't have my browser or websites "remember me" for convenience. I have other methods for saving convenience passwords for sites of low concern (the forum versus banking for example).

Although it can be complex, cyber-security is not a magical world that only the chosen few can navigate. A little additional effort and common sense on your part can drastically lower your presence to the junk-mail and advertising zombies. I haven't had a virus or security issue (that I'm aware of) since the early days of XP. A few good habits can save you a lot of trouble :)

[Curt Harms]

It may be coincidence but I use Firefox with NoScript and an ad blocker in addition to the built-in blocking capabilities of Firefox. The downside to NoScript is that every site needs to be set up. It was eye opening to see how many sites are part of NFL.com, CNN.com etc. Google anything gets blocked unless the map api is required. I get next to no unsolicited email. My current annoyance is Expedia. I did use it to book a trip a few months ago and now get bombarded. I can't complain because I did establish a 'relationship' with them. I have repeatedly clicked the "unsubscribe" button but with zero success.

[Pat Barry]

2 days ago I responded to Mayo Pardo's post in the engraving section, to do with his line-cutting issues:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?247782-Tried-cutting-metallic-faced-thin-posterboard-residue-around-cut-lines-problem

--my post reads as follows--


And this morning, I get this email...
345332
"Let's make deburring more fun"....

Seriously??

There is no possible way this is a coincidence. The engraving business is generally regarded as a 'marking' industry, to do with awards, name badges, etc... It is NOT regarded as part of the "machining" industry. Therfore, the odds of anyone just randomly correlating my engraving business with a machine shop business and me getting email spam for a better deburring tool 2 days after I used the word "deburring" online, is simply astronomical.

And the un-nerving part, where did they get my email address?? I suppose the same computer algorithm that found the word "deburring" was also able to track down what can loosely be described as "my website", and got it there, but I have to wonder, did maybe they get it HERE?

For a long time now I've refused to type certain words or initials in emails, online forums, or any other 'internet venue' just because I've always felt, someone is checking... Maybe I'm paranoid, but, someone is... :mad:

<< edit >> -- I also just noticed they used my name in the ad, "Hello Kevin"....
AND- as you can see in the pic, the email address they sent to was "kevin@"-- the email on my website is "info@"...
NOT cool....
OK - so you have email. You send email to other folks and they in turn forward your emails to friends, etc and suddenly your email address is 'out there'. Now you type something into SMC one day and get a purely coincidental email the next day. So what? Life is full of coincidences. Live with it.

[Kev Williams]

An email ad from a company selling tools, one of which is a deburring tool, I might consider a coincidence. But a specific deburring tool ad? Nope.

I'm bringing this back because it happened again.

Yesterday I got online to my bank. Secured connection, https, padlock, etc, to order a box of checks.
The bank's site transferred me to the site selling the checks, also a secured connection.
I ordered a box of checks, logged off, closed the browser.

this morning I get this:
355560

I have NEVER in my life gotten a 'checks' advertisement. This is not coincidence, this is a direct result of me buying checks, on supposedly secure websites!
HOW DID THIS PLACE KNOW THIS AND GET MY EMAIL ADDRESS?? Actually the answer is easy :mad:
Note that I didn't google anything. I opened my bank bookmark, logged in, clicked 'other services', clicked 'buy checks', and bought checks.

So much for 'secure' websites.

Spammers picking up keywords from public forums such as this is one thing, but companies freely passing around info I consider private from 'secure' connections is ridiculous...

[Roger Feeley]

Marketing types spend a lot of time and money harvesting data from everything we do online and they still get it wrong. Some years ago, I looked into an infrared thermometer for the kitchen. I thought why not and bought a Fluke at my local Graingers. For over a year, I was getting targeted ads for infrared thermometers of all brands (because I looked for one once). Since then, I've noticed that the targeted ads seem to be for things I just bought which strikes me as a huge waste of time and money. It took years to get off of a an email list for pet supplies. I kept explaining the our dog died. I finally had to threaten to sue the company.

What I would love to see is a service where I can subscribe to ads. Say I want to buy a matress this weekend. I would go online and reveal that I intend to buy a mattress this weekend and marketers could do their thing. I can look at the ads or not as I see fit but at least I would be receiving ads for things I want in the future and not for things I've bought or no longer have an interest in. Such information provided by me and verified by purchases should have real value and this imaginary service should be paying me for providing my intent.

[John C Cox]

I have experienced similar including ads that "randomly" show up all over the place after phone calls I have had where I talked about a particular subject for a while....

There's a lot going on in these fancy super phone devices that happens under the hood that is not transparent to us.... And let's face it... If you have the money to pay for the data - somebody is going to figure out how to get it.

[Jim Becker]

Ads like that come from tracking technology within the browser, not because the site you visited is giving away the data. There are browser add-ins that will help you control the ad trackers without compromising things that are needed to operate effectively with the sites you visit.

[Lee DeRaud]

Marketing types spend a lot of time and money harvesting data from everything we do online and they still get it wrong. Some years ago, I looked into an infrared thermometer for the kitchen. I thought why not and bought a Fluke at my local Graingers. For over a year, I was getting targeted ads for infrared thermometers of all brands (because I looked for one once). Since then, I've noticed that the targeted ads seem to be for things I just bought which strikes me as a huge waste of time and money.The one I never understand is getting a 'targeted' ad on Facebook from Amazon for something I just bought...on Amazon.

Of course, the "huge waste of time and money" award goes to the dozens of Medicare-related companies that sent snail mail ads to my address intended for my ex-wife, who turned 65 last year. Thing is, she moved out in 1986 and has had five or six different addresses since then, which I suspect are also getting bombarded by the same ads. Even worse, their "six degrees" connection algorithms occasionally result in me getting spam addressed to her current husband, who will turn 65 later this year. I can hardly wait.

[Yonak Hawkins]

For your information and complete scrutiny, a friend sent me this : https://project.wnyc.org/privacy-paradox/ (http://project.wnyc.org/privacy-paradox/) recently for learning about personal security. I realize this seems like an enigma, which is why I prefaced it for your scrutiny.

[Curt Harms]

The problem is, how in the world can you avoid it short of unplugging completely?

I find that Firefox with NoScript & Ublock Origin help quite a bit. I resized my cache from the default 350 MB. to 35 MB. so there should be less to pick through at any one time. If sites that really have no need for my email address but still require one, they get something like"first.name@someisp.com". It takes some time with NoScript to get it so it allows what's required for the site to work but blocks google stuff, facebook, twitter etc. etc. There's also a way to block anything from doubleclick and others like it.

[Dave Lehnert]

I can go to a web site and look at hammers. Right away I get email advertising that same hammer from the same website on my Yahoo address.

[Mark Blatter]

An email ad from a company selling tools, one of which is a deburring tool, I might consider a coincidence. But a specific deburring tool ad? Nope.

I'm bringing this back because it happened again.

Yesterday I got online to my bank. Secured connection, https, padlock, etc, to order a box of checks.
The bank's site transferred me to the site selling the checks, also a secured connection.
I ordered a box of checks, logged off, closed the browser.

this morning I get this:
355560

I have NEVER in my life gotten a 'checks' advertisement. This is not coincidence, this is a direct result of me buying checks, on supposedly secure websites!
HOW DID THIS PLACE KNOW THIS AND GET MY EMAIL ADDRESS?? Actually the answer is easy :mad:
Note that I didn't google anything. I opened my bank bookmark, logged in, clicked 'other services', clicked 'buy checks', and bought checks.

So much for 'secure' websites.

Spammers picking up keywords from public forums such as this is one thing, but companies freely passing around info I consider private from 'secure' connections is ridiculous...


Don't automatically trust your bank or the company you bought checks from. Banks sell a great deal of info and like many other industries, check printers operate under multiple names.

[Stewie Simpson]

What about the CIA. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/world/europe/wikileaks-cia-hacking.html?_r=0

[Lee DeRaud]

What about the CIA. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/world/europe/wikileaks-cia-hacking.html?_r=0Well, at least that explains how WikiLeaks got hold of my Amazon wish list...

[Patrick Walsh]

I dont know folks, sure feels like this country is spinning off its tracks as of late at a rapid rate.

I'm no doomsday theorist and im sure not trading my shop in for a bunker full of munitions and canned food and bottled water but things are getting scary aroud here fast.

I did just purchase a smart TV. Im pretty sure its already impossible to purchase antv without smart technology. If not now soon enough it will be then what. Spying on me through my tv may seem like not a big deal now as i have nothing to hide. But what happens when doing so becomes so run of the mill and the hacker jerk next door that is also a creep starts watching your wife or kids. Gid knows were this stuff could lead ten twenty years down the road.

the oroblem with humans is we are largley instant gratification seekers and we rarely think about the long term. Ok we try and think about the long term some of us better at it than others. Most of what we do is directed at today and tomorrow not ten years from now. This crap has the real pottential to spin way out of control imop.

Just more motivation to move to the county and live off the grid.

[John McClanahan]

Just be glad it's for CNC tooling and not for hot Russian single girls!

[Brian Tymchak]

Even worse, their "six degrees" connection algorithms occasionally result in me getting spam addressed to her current husband, who will turn 65 later this year.

Yea, this one amuses me every once in a while, when I get mail from medical service providers for my mother (passed in 1998) and my father (passed in 2007), and then lawn service advertisements :confused: for my somewhat dead beat brother who ostracised himself from the family 35 years ago. None of these people have ever been associated with my address.

[Alex Snyder]

I work for a company that touches at least 3/4 of all the car deals that happen in the United States. In some cases our software, or properties, power 100% of every single aspect of the sale. We also help spend $$$ billions of advertising revenue within our own ad networks digitally and within our traditional media properties. If you visit one of our sites or even an affiliate within our ad network (hundreds of thousands of sites) some information is revealed to us. We then try to use that information to link you to other information we might have in our database. The sole purpose of this is to better target you with better advertising.

If you have okay'd an app to use your Facebook information, or logged into a forum that hosts advertising ;) ;) , chances are a decent marketing agency can figure out who you are. On top of that companies like Equifax sell information that helps refine databases further. For example, in our case, your *fresh* (we've never seen it before) IP address hit a car shopping website and spent a little time looking at pickup trucks. We logged a cookie on your browser and now you see pickup truck ads following you around the Internet. Our cookie keeps tabs on which sites you visited, so when you come back we then check to see which of our affiliates you visited. We get a little more refined. It might be that you hit enough of our "in-network" sites that we have enough data to work with a credit agency to better gauge what kind of buyer you are. We begin to target you with ads a bit deeper; maybe even do some sophisticated emailing.... like you're seeing in this example.

That's about as far as we go with things. There might be other agencies that go a little farther :eek:

[Pat Barry]

I dont know folks, sure feels like this country is spinning off its tracks as of late at a rapid rate.

I'm no doomsday theorist and im sure not trading my shop in for a bunker full of munitions and canned food and bottled water but things are getting scary aroud here fast.

I did just purchase a smart TV. Im pretty sure its already impossible to purchase antv without smart technology. If not now soon enough it will be then what. Spying on me through my tv may seem like not a big deal now as i have nothing to hide. But what happens when doing so becomes so run of the mill and the hacker jerk next door that is also a creep starts watching your wife or kids. Gid knows were this stuff could lead ten twenty years down the road.

the oroblem with humans is we are largley instant gratification seekers and we rarely think about the long term. Ok we try and think about the long term some of us better at it than others. Most of what we do is directed at today and tomorrow not ten years from now. This crap has the real pottential to spin way out of control imop.

Just more motivation to move to the county and live off the grid.
I'm sure you'll be real safe there - good luck

[Roger Feeley]

So here we are talking about ways to suppress marketing. What is an honest businessman to do? Every well has been poisoned by the scammers.

junk mail never makes it into y house.
i screen all calls.
spam blockers
ad blockers

about all that's left is product placement and movie trailers.

[Mark Blatter]

One of my favorite TV shows is West Wing. Here is a quote from season 1 episode 9 which aired in 1999;

Sam Seaborn (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000507/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): It's not just about abortion, it's about the next 20 years. In the '20s and '30s it was the role of government. '50s and '60s it was civil rights. The next two decades are going to be privacy. I'm talking about the Internet. I'm talking about cell phones. I'm talking about health records and who's gay and who's not. And moreover, in a country born on the will to be free, what could be more fundamental than this?

Privacy today is simply an illusion. Unless you are extremely careful, and give up much of the good of the internet, and smart phones, you will be tracked until long after you die. Big Brother is alive and well, he just isn't the government. He is Spammers, she is the advertiser that lives next door, he is anyone that wants to sell you something, take something from you or wants to sway your vote in the next election. In a way Big Brother is all of us....so yes, perhaps it is time to move to the country.....just plan on leaving your computer, your smart phone and your TV behind.

[Patrick Walsh]

When i said off the grid thats what i was implying. No cell phone, no computer electricity from solar or wind and being forced to think about how much of it you do and do not use and on what.

Simplify, simplify simplify.

Kinda like homesteading.


One of my favorite TV shows is West Wing. Here is a quote from season 1 episode 9 which aired in 1999;

Sam Seaborn (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000507/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): It's not just about abortion, it's about the next 20 years. In the '20s and '30s it was the role of government. '50s and '60s it was civil rights. The next two decades are going to be privacy. I'm talking about the Internet. I'm talking about cell phones. I'm talking about health records and who's gay and who's not. And moreover, in a country born on the will to be free, what could be more fundamental than this?

Privacy today is simply an illusion. Unless you are extremely careful, and give up much of the good of the internet, and smart phones, you will be tracked until long after you die. Big Brother is alive and well, he just isn't the government. He is Spammers, she is the advertiser that lives next door, he is anyone that wants to sell you something, take something from you or wants to sway your vote in the next election. In a way Big Brother is all of us....so yes, perhaps it is time to move to the country.....just plan on leaving your computer, your smart phone and your TV behind.

[Jim Koepke]

My wife has been shopping for swim suits and underwear on line.

Guess what kind of ads are popping up in my browser all the time now...

We are constantly being spied on by those trying to make a buck. Whether it is our shopping habits and "rewards" cards or sniffing our credit reports, they want to know what we like and how to get us to buy it from them.

As far as unwanted emails go my email reader has a bounce option. Most spam servers have a "returned mail" handler to take bad emails off their lists. This has eliminated quite a few of my unwanted emails. It likely wouldn't be hard to spoof a bounced message to get your name removed automagically. Kind of like the telephone trick of playing a recording of a disconnected number gets autodialers to drop a phone number. BTW, whenever filling out a questionnaire wanting a phone number the last digit of my number is usually changed. Hopefully someone somewhere isn't getting bombarded with calls asking for me. Hmmm, if only I had the personal number of my Representative in Congress... Maybe that would put some teeth into the do not call list.

Another approach to eliminate unwanted email is a bit more work. Create a junk account at gmail, yahoo or any other free email server. Use it when you need to fill in your eddress if one is requested. Then be sure to check when it is needed to confirm something.

It surprises me email marketers have not figured out a constant bombardment of annoying or unwanted junk mail is not a good way to build customer loyalty. One of my email providers used to send me as many as four emails a day with useless offers and other junk. It was so bad that I wouldn't read any or their emails. The important messages, less than 1% went unread and ended up in the trash.

They changed servers about eight years ago which needed a change to my set up. When I called for help the rep told me my service no longer existed. Luckily I knew a few other people who still were with them and asked what they had to change recently. Even though it was supposed to be disconnected long ago, it is still working. It is the one that gets all my junk mail. So if they ever do get around to cutting the cord it will not be a big loss, other than having to set up another account for junk mail.

jtk

[Art Mann]

It is one thing for a private company to discover some of your shopping preferences in order to target their advertising.

[Eric Keller]

my wife looked at something on a site and 2 hours later I was being served ads from that company. Google is behind a lot of it, I think. I'm a lot happier in general now that I use the disconnect plugin though, it really cuts down on a lot of crosstalk in the advertising.