Flat rate box shipping via USPS [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

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Dennis McDonaugh

10-02-2005, 12:42 PM

I buy quite a few tools off of e-bay and I've noticed a trend lately. Many sellers are using flat rate boxes to ship all their auctions. This works well if you buy a plane or heavier item, but it cost you money if you win a light weight item like a marking gauge or rule. I see how it saves the seller time because he doesn't have to go to the PO to weigh and pay for each item individually, he can just buy a bunch of flat rate boxes and has a set shipping cost for every item. I've always steered clear of sellers with high shipping costs, now I'm thinking I have to watch even closer before I bid.

Bill Grumbine

10-02-2005, 1:54 PM

What will you be watching for Dennis? It is okay if you save a few bucks, but not okay if you lose a couple? I ship stuff every week, mostly DVDs and VHS tapes, but also turnings and pieces of furniture. Even with stuff that is all the same size and weight, it takes a LOT of time to get stuff packed up and out the door. When it comes to one of a kind pieces, it is safe to double or even triple the time spent in packing it up and getting it to the P.O. Occasionally I will have to build a shipping package for something which is unusual in shape.

I see lots of posts about how great the flat rate boxes are if someone is stuffing them full of wood or metal, but then people gripe if they did not get every last bit of space or weight. I also see posts from people griping about having to pay shipping and "handling" costs. I will be one of the last people on earth to praise the government for wisdom, but the P.O. is a business, and they need to run like a business. The reason they can offer a flat rate for a certain size object is that they are averaging them out - some are going to weigh more, and some are going to weigh less, and if it turns out that they cannot do this economically, you will see the flat rate disappear. The laws of economics are about as flexible as the law of gravity, despite assertions to the contrary.

To the best of my knowledge, things do not pack themselves up. It takes time, and time costs money. Some people build the cost into the item itself, and some add on a charge. How much would it cost you to drive somewhere - anywhere - to buy the things you get off EBay? How much of your own time would you be willing to invest sitting in traffic, or looking for a seller whose location you had never been to?

We have a local Woodcraft store which I patronize on a regular basis. It is 15 miles from my house, and my truck gets approximately 15 miles to the gallon. Just a little bit of math will reveal that every time I drive my truck to the store, it costs me roughly $6.00. It costs me $6.00 whether I buy a can of finish for $5.00 or I spend $500 on machinery and tooling. Should I gripe about having to spend the same amount of time or gas to get something I need or want that is on the lower end of the scale? Not at all. It is a free society, and I can choose to go or not go. I guess in the end I can choose to gripe too, but it is not going to put more time in my day or more gas in my truck. Nor will it decrease the cost of obtaining said item.

Of course, I do try to combine trips, but sometimes there is just no way around driving to town and spending $6.00 to buy a $1.00 part. Please understand, I am not trying to pick on you, but every time one of these threads gets started, all sorts of people jump in to complain about the evil shipper and how he or she is raking the customer over the coals with unfair charges. There is nothing unfair about a charge which you know about ahead of time. It is still your decision as to whether or not to pay it.

Bill

Keith Outten

10-02-2005, 3:59 PM

Jackie and I use USPS Flat Rate Shipping boxes most of the time. Since it cuts our costs significantly we rarely charge any handling fee. I believe our customers actually save money this way, labor costs are usually higher than shipping fees especially when small boxes are majority of items being shipped.

Items that are very expensive we do free shipping, the cost is built in to the price anyway and it is easy to just say...Shipping is Free :)

Jeff Sudmeier

10-02-2005, 4:03 PM

:) Shipping is the profit center for a lot of ebay sellers :) You can't tell me they make money on a $1 item, but they do on a $15 item when it arrives and the postage on the box is $2 or less...

Something else to watch very closely for on ebay. Shipping costs can really change the end cost.

Randy Meijer

10-02-2005, 11:22 PM

I have shipped a number of items that I sold on eBay and think it is fair to say that the average person does not have a realistic idea of what it "costs" to package and ship an item through the USPS. Bill's comments pretty well cover the topic. However, when you see someone on eBay charging $15-$20 shipping for a three dollar item, you know something fishy is going on. As with everything else, let the buyer beware!!!

John Hart

10-03-2005, 7:07 AM

I agree that there are a lot of Ebayers out there that make their money on shipping...by enticing the buyer into a $1 item that is clearly worth more...then charging $10 for shipping which is clearly worth less. I generally avoid these folks. But on the subject of the flat rate box....I think it's great. I've saved hundreds of dollars shipping turning blanks to people in the Flat Rate Box, simply because of the high weight. Plus, the boxes themselves are free. It's pretty convenient. Not to mention the Postal Employess...Every time I take boxes to the post office, the employees seem to be sincerely engaged and want to know how the boxes are working out, how my savings are, how convenient it is. It's kinda weird...but refreshing.

Dave Anderson NH

10-03-2005, 9:07 AM

I ship mostly USPS for my toolmaking business and I have developed a flat rate for each of the items I sell. I do not use shipping as a profit center and charge the priority mail only at cost. Interestingly enough, most of the time the insurance is equal to, or higher than the shipping. Since most of my business is now with folks I don't know, all items are insured to protect both me and the buyer.

There is a significant cost in shipping even a small item like an awl when you consider the box, bubble pack, packaging tape, and the label. Then, as others have said, there's the time and expense of going to the post office. When I add in my time, I actually lose money on the shipping. Philosophically I just view it as a cost of doing business and being in the game.

Pam Niedermayer

10-03-2005, 9:33 AM

I consider insurance and tracking protection for the seller since, as the buyer, I consider it the responsibility of the seller to get the item to me. If it doesn't arrive, that shouldn't be my worry, beyond the usual chargebacks and the like. Therefore, I won't pay for it (the insurance); and if a seller tries to shift the responsibility to the buyer, I won't bid on his/her items.

I also have some problems with super high shipping/handling costs, like $7 for a spokeshave. I simply won't go for it. Now I understand that a lot of the difference in passing on s&h costs is a difference between someone selling personal items and professional old tool sellers. I guess I don't have a lot of sympathy for ebay based professionals. There are also some differences in protective shipping, like a seller building little cages for saws, which I'm happy to pay for.

And then there's the Amazon battery seller who tried to charge me $14 (or more, I honestly can't remember the exact amount); but because of the way Amazon works, I didn't know that until the order was written. I backed out of that OK, but it was touch and go for a bit, and depended on the goodwill of the seller.

Pam

Dennis McDonaugh

10-03-2005, 11:02 AM

Scott Loven

10-03-2005, 11:51 AM

I have shipped thousands of items from sales on Ebay and my web site over the past 5 years. I buy my shipping boxes and padded envelops from www.uline.com (http://www.uline.com/) . They range in price from $.15 to $1.00 each depending on size. I offer free shipping over $25 off of the web site, so try to keep my shipping costs to a minimum. A big box on a small item means more packing to secure it, more weight, and more cost to ship it, not to mention more time. Ebay costs me about 11% of the gross sales, so I charge for shipping. I usually charge around $1-2 over the actual shipping cost. I only use priority mail when that is the best price, or a customer requests, and pays for it. I don’t insure anything unless it is valued over $200. I have only had a few lost items over the 5 years, so spending thousands on insurance to protect an occasional 20-30$ loss is a waste of money (and time, have you ever tried to collect on insurance from the post office?) If an item is damaged, which happens a few times a year, I replace and ship it at my expense. If I send the wrong item, which also happens a few times a year I cover the expense of shipping the correct item as well as the expense of returning the incorrect item, as you would expect. I do ship UPS on items over 6 pounds as that seems to be the break-even point for me.

I always offer discounts on multi-item purchases, and give refunds when people over pay on shipping (IE if you buy and pay for each item before you bid on the next item. I even have given rebates on occasion if I think that a person has grossly over bid on an item. I want people to be happy with their purchases and to come back!

I have sold a few items on Amazon. They did not give me a choice on what to charge for shipping.

Scott

Scott Loven

10-03-2005, 11:58 AM

Well, I can see there are two sides to this issue. I'm not saying Dave or Bill should lose money shipping an item. In fact, I don't mind paying for fair shipping costs, what I don't want to do is pay more for shipping to save the seller time. The seller's time should be figured into the auction equation because he knows hes going to have to ship the item right? He's not saving money shipping in a flat rate box since he's billing me for all the shipping costs anyway.

Say you win a marking guage on e-bay. It can't weight more than a few ounces so you package it with bubble wrap and stick it in a cardboard box. Charge me for the box and bubble wrap and the exact shipping. Shouldn't be more than a few dollars. Don't stick it in a a flat rate box and charge me $10.00 ($7.70 for postage and $2.30 for handling) just to save you time. I'm not paying for your time, just shipping!
These are the Priority Mail Rates <TABLE width=429 summary="Priority Mail Rates (by Zone and Weight)"><TBODY><TR><TH id=header1>
Weight
not over
(pounds)

</TH><TH id=header2>
Local
Zones
1, 2, and 3

</TH><TH id=header3>
Zone 4

</TH><TH id=header4>
Zone 5

</TH><TH id=header5>
Zone 6

</TH><TH id=header6>
Zone 7

</TH><TH id=header7>
Zone 8

</TH></TR><TR><TD id=row1>
1

</TD><TD headers="row1 header2">
$3.85

</TD><TD headers="row1 header3">
$3.85

</TD><TD headers="row1 header4">
$3.85

</TD><TD headers="row1 header5">
$3.85

</TD><TD headers="row1 header6">
$3.85

</TD><TD headers="row1 header7">
$3.85

</TD></TR><TR><TD id=row2>
2

</TD><TD headers="row2 header2">
3.95

</TD><TD headers="row2 header3">
4.55

</TD><TD headers="row2 header4">
4.90

</TD><TD headers="row2 header5">
5.05

</TD><TD headers="row2 header6">
5.40

</TD><TD headers="row2 header7">
5.75

</TD></TR><TR><TD id=row3>
3

</TD><TD headers="row3 header2">
4.75

</TD><TD headers="row3 header3">
6.05

</TD><TD headers="row3 header4">
6.85

</TD><TD headers="row3 header5">
7.15

</TD><TD headers="row3 header6">
7.85

</TD><TD headers="row3 header7">
8.55

</TD></TR><TR><TD id=row4>
4

</TD><TD headers="row4 header2">
5.30

</TD><TD headers="row4 header3">
7.05

</TD><TD headers="row4 header4">
8.05

</TD><TD headers="row4 header5">
8.50

</TD><TD headers="row4 header6">
9.45

</TD><TD headers="row4 header7">
10.35

</TD></TR><TR><TD id=row5>
5

</TD><TD headers="row5 header2">
5.85

</TD><TD headers="row5 header3">
8.00

</TD><TD headers="row5 header4">
9.30

</TD><TD headers="row5 header5">
9.85

</TD><TD headers="row5 header6">
11.00

</TD><TD headers="row5 header7">
12.15

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Michael Cody

10-05-2005, 2:05 AM

I too sell a bit of stuff on Ebay - I used to charge exact shipping rounded to the nearest dollar .. but as of a couple of months ago, I change 2$ S&H fee for all the bubble wrap, tape, & peanuts I use. I get my boxes for priority mail free, just order them on the USPS web site and have them delivered to my house. I ship almost exclusively via Priority Mail unless it goes over 15lbs or so, then UPS Ground is cheaper. I also offer insurance optional if they pay for it. I don't require it but it's yours when I drop it off at the post office. All my stuff has delivery conf and based on my feeling for price/feedback, etc.. I will occasionally require signature (but I pay for it).

I don't use flat rates to much .. though I am going to be selling off some of pen blank & wood blank collection (more than I could ever use) and that might go flat rate if it fits. Otherwise it's Priority mail plus 2$ ....

Pam Niedermayer

10-05-2005, 10:13 AM

[font=Times New Roman][size=3]...I have sold a few items on Amazon. They did not give me a choice on what to charge for shipping....

That's true if you're selling books, cd's, and the like; but not true for those who are set up as third party sellers of electronics, photography, etc. items.

Pam

JayStPeter

10-05-2005, 11:10 AM

I think dealing with flat-rate ebayers is one of the better ways to go. I rarely bid on anything that doesn't tell me exactly what it will cost me in shipping. I always bid based on cost to my door. I hate "buyer to pay actual shipping costs". Sometimes that is great, but other times I've had the seller go to mailboxes etc. and have them pack and ship the item at significant cost and pass that along to me.

I don't think anyone will argue that Lee Valley tries to make money on shipping. But, just go there and buy a single drill bit. Again, you have to buy based on cost to your door. Of course, at Lee Valley that means you add a plane to your order to get free shipping on the drill bit :D . But, the bottom line is that having small inexpensive items shiipped to you isn't cost effective.

At one point I sold a lot of stuff on the bay. These days if the item can't support a starting bid of at least $50, I would rather just toss it or give it away than hassle with shipping and collecting money and waiting for personal checks to clear from bidders who refuse to use anything else, etc.

As a seller, you really have to use a reliable (not cheapest) shipping method. When I started, I was determined not to charge my buyers too much for shipping and shopped around for the cheapest way to ship a given item. Sometimes the items would get there in a day and the buyer would be extremely happy. Twice I had items that appeared to have been lost. After refunding the money and contacting the shipper to no avail, the item would arrive at the buyers house a month later. It took a full 2 months to get a car stereo unit from MD to CA using USPS cheap (they told me 10-15 days). Since you'll get buyer complaints either way, I've taken the approach of making it easiest on myself. I still won't rip the customer off, but I won't necessarily use the cheapest either. It seems that most ebayers learn that with experience.

Jay