Canadian woodworker EU bandsaws made in Italy

[Mike Kees]

Canadian woodworker is a machinery and tool importer and retailer business in Canada. They have added a very interesting looking series of bandsaws to their lineup. Made in Italy is all they will say. The saws look exactly like minimax to me,but who knows . The pricing is very comparable to minimax, so if I was going to spend my hard earned moula I personally want to know exactly who made it. So my question is, does anyone here on the forum know anything about these saws ? If you google the company you will have as much info as I currently have. So here we go another bandsaw thread...

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I had a conversation with Cole Moore last Saturday at the Woodstock wood Show and looked at the 20 inch saw.

If I remember correctly Cole said it was made by SCM......Rod

[mreza Salav]

Thanks Rod. It was a question I was wondering too.
Now I am thinking why they decided to badge it with a different brand rather than just sell the SCM or Minimax brand that are well established.
Especially that the price point is almost the same. It is like having cars made in Mercedes factory and selling it at the same price point but with a new and unknown brand....

[David Kumm]

I see they are dealers for Casadei which is owned by SCM so it makes sense that there is a relationship. Dave

[Mike Kees]

Rod what did it look like ? I have yet to see one in person. For some reason they only shipped one to the store in Edmonton and none to Calgary. I talked to Cole Moore on the phone about these saws and he did not tell me who made them.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mike, it looked like your normal run of the mill welded frame saws with cast iron wheels and ceramic guides.

The one interesting thing is that it had a hydraulic pressure gauge for blade tension, I presume a spring pushing a hydraulic load cell for measurement, it didn't appear to have a hydraulic pump to drive a cylinder.

It also had the standard Euro high/low fence.......Regards, Rod

[Erik Loza]

Hi Mike, it looked like your normal run of the mill welded frame saws with cast iron wheels and ceramic guides.

The one interesting thing is that it had a hydraulic pressure gauge for blade tension, I presume a spring pushing a hydraulic load cell for measurement, it didn't appear to have a hydraulic pump to drive a cylinder.

It also had the standard Euro high/low fence.......Regards, Rod

If all those are the case, then it's not a Centauro (Minimax). Anyone got a picture of one? I can tell you who made it if I can see it.

FYI that ACM is the most prodigious "OEM'er" out of Italy on bandsaws.

Erik

[mreza Salav]

If all those are the case, then it's not a Centauro (Minimax). Anyone got a picture of one? I can tell you who made it if I can see it.

FYI that ACM is the most prodigious "OEM'er" out of Italy on bandsaws.

Erik

Looks like a SCM machine to me. add the usual triple w and then: Canadianwoodworker.com/webstore/images/ip011014.jpg

[Erik Loza]

Looks like a SCM machine to me. add the usual triple w and then: Canadianwoodworker.com/webstore/images/ip011014.jpg

OK, those "EU" machines are Centauros (SCM/Minimax), just with the CSA-approved electrical box. Same machine SCM sells here in the states as the S400P, etc.

I think there must be some confusion, then, because I didn't see mention anywhere about ceramic guides or hydraulic blade tensioning. Perhaps we're talking about two different lines of bandsaw and folks think we're talking about only one. Centauro doesn't offer any of those features on their machines.

Erik

[Rod Sheridan]

OK, those "EU" machines are Centauros (SCM/Minimax), just with the CSA-approved electrical box. Same machine SCM sells here in the states as the S400P, etc.

I think there must be some confusion, then, because I didn't see mention anywhere about ceramic guides or hydraulic blade tensioning. Perhaps we're talking about two different lines of bandsaw and folks think we're talking about only one. Centauro doesn't offer any of those features on their machines.

Erik

Hi, I think the photo supplied is the old model.

The new one had "20 X 20" on a decal on the upper wheel housing, ceramic blade guides and a hydraulic pressure gauge in the spine near the upper wheel housing...........Rod.

[Erik Loza]

This got my curiosity up, so I did some googling. It looks like these guys have a site that is different than the one listed above and is called "CWI Woodworking Technologies", with a list of all the products they distribute. They claim to offer the Italian-made Centauro bandsaws we know about...

345173

...as well as some Chinese-made bandsaw that has the ceramic guides and hydraulic pressure thingie...

345174

So, two different lines of bandsaw after all.

Erik

[Peter Kelly]

Looks like they're also selling re-badged Vitap contour edgebanders but not any of their boring machines.

Wonder where the other edgebanders are sourced from. Can't imagine struggling with a Chinese-made one would be any fun.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks Erik, looks like I confused the 2 models.............Rod.

[Erik Loza]

I have this feeling that the market has changed and that shops aren't buying smaller edgebanders and line boring machines any longer. Some, perhaps, but I was hardly getting any sales leads from SCM for banders or boring machines during the last two quarters of 2016. But sliding panel saw leads were still steady. So, one out of the three. I suspect everyone either is buying much bigger banders or a CNC machine for the hole drilling.

Erik

[Erik Loza]

Thanks Erik, looks like I confused the 2 models.............Rod.

Rod, that was probably the intent.

Erik

[mreza Salav]

Erik, I had not seen that black one.
One difference I see between the other SCM built machine and the ones SCM sells are foot brakes; not a big deal but why not included in the SCM machines.
Still, don't understand the logic behind selling an SCM built machine with a different (unknown) brand. Is this because they can get it at a lower price than a branded machine? Or is it because
SCM doesn't want to deal with the service afterwards? or...?

[Peter Kelly]

Centauro SpA is a separate company from SCM.

[Erik Loza]

Centauro SpA is a separate company from SCM.

This ^^^^

SCM contracts with Centauro to build the Minimax S400P, S500P, etc. There is only configuration of Centauro exported to North America. There is no "other" SCM or Minimax bandsaw (aside from the S45N, which is a whole different animal from the Centauro). It is all the same machine and the only difference might be the electricals, such as Canada requiring that CSA-compliant box.

Part of the issue is that Centauro has terrible documentation and sales literature and since Centauro has terrible literature and documentation, the dealer or vendor selling the Centauro bandsaw gives you terrible literature and documentation. Things like wrong or outdated photos. For example, I happened to notice that the website with those "Stallion" (LOL) saws gives an incorrect blade length. So, some unlucky Canadian will buy one and order a bunch of blades (Centauro does not include blades with their machines) and they will all be too short.

The interesting thing to me, though, is that this Canadian dealership must be buying their Centauro saws directly from Centauro, because SCM will not sell to them and they are indeed the same machine.

All the Centauros have a foot brake, by the way.

Erik

[mreza Salav]

Thanks Erik




All the Centauros have a foot brake, by the way.

Erik

Huh? What am I missing in this photo then? is this not a Centauros machine?

https://www.scmgroup.com/en/products/classical-machines.c884/band-saws.895/s-400-p-s-500-p-s-600-p-s-700-p-s-800-p-s-900-p.659

[Erik Loza]

...Part of the issue is that Centauro has terrible documentation and sales literature... Things like wrong or outdated photos.
All the Centauros have a foot brake, by the way...


Thanks Erik

Huh? What am I missing in this photo then? is this not a Centauros machine?

https://www.scmgroup.com/en/products/classical-machines.c884/band-saws.895/s-400-p-s-500-p-s-600-p-s-700-p-s-800-p-s-900-p.659

Mreza, please see red, above...

Erik

[Mike Kees]

Thanks for the info Eric. I was pretty sure they were the same saw as minimax. Is it possible for me to get a CSA certified machine from Minimax USA ?

[Erik Loza]

..Is it possible for me to get a CSA certified machine from Minimax USA?

Unlikely. That certification-compliant hardware costs extra and is unnecessary for the US market, so they probably wouldn't order it for you.

Erik

[John Lankers]

To clarify for those who don't know: CWI is the importer with head office in Winnipeg, their house brand is Stallion "built or sourced" to their specs. Canadian Woodworker is the name of their retail outlets, online as well as brick and mortar store fronts.
I was in the market for a 5 hp cyclone dust collector a year ago and had a few questions the staff at the Calgary store wasn't able to answer, so they referred me to their head office. Based on this experience alone I didn't hesitate to purchase from them and I'm still extremely satisfied to this day.
They were also a Laguna dealership several years but gave that up (rumors were it was because of poor quality control and product support from Laguna).

[Erik Loza]

If someone was smart, they would shop that "EU-Spec" bandsaw from those CWI guys against a Minimax S400P or whatever, from SCM Group Canada. It's the exact same machine. See who will give you the better deal. In my experience, the amount of support you (the buyer) will receive from a dealer, any dealer, on a purchase of an Italian bandsaw is minimal at best. That's not to slam any dealer but I did it for enough years to say that "selling" or "customer service" on these machines of this class usually consists of, "Here's a spec sheet. Let me know when you're ready to order", or, "Call headquarters if you need help". In other words, you should be prepared not have any new car or warm fuzzy feelings about the transaction or getting setup issues handled. It's very, very rare to be able to speak to any rep who actually specializes in or is willing to follow up with customer support on Euro bandsaws. Though it might be a big purchase for you, it's small fish to most machinery dealers. Just being up-front, so be ready for it.

By the way, the correct blade lengths will be 154" for the 16"x16" Centauro machine and 171" for the 20"x20" Centauro machine.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

Erik, I'm betting that CNC is absolutely having an impact on boring since it can be done with the panels cut or uncut on the bed merely by changing tooling with the appropriate programming. That kind of thing has gotten more affordable for the smaller to mid-size shops. Strange that edge banding fell off, however, unless some of the fancier machines that are practically "automated mini-factories" are handling that as stuff gets spit out from cutting...

[Erik Loza]

Jim, I agree. What I saw at that last couple of big shows, since we are well out of the recession, is a lot more of the smaller CNC's. Before, it was, "If you don't have $150K, you can't touch one", and now, you can get into a really decent European or US-made one for about half that. Or even a third, if someone wants to gamble on Chinese.

The bander-thing is interesting to me. I wasn't at IWF this year but was 2 years ago and AWFS last year. I did get some interest in the smaller (Minimax) banders but not as much as in the past. Zero interest in the line boring machine, by the way. However, the SCM side was really bustling on the bigger banders. The 5mm/8mm machines with pre-milling, corner rounding, etc. It's possible that this is parallel to the boring machine situation, where shops are just going straight to bigger machines. Though, banders have not come down in price like CNC's have. Or maybe guys just finance the whole enchilada and an extra ten grand doesn't matter?

Erik