Plane ID

[Tom Blank]

My son found this plane at an estate sale and sent a couple of pictures. Looks like a low angle block plane with an adjustable mouth, but a little larger than my current era block planes. There does not appear to be any manufacturer's mark or model identification. Although I have a selection of modern planes, I have no experience with early planes so am looking for additional information.

Any opinions on age or ID?

Also, I am puzzled by a couple of features. I have not seen the toggle holding the cap iron before, and presume that tightens the cap iron. Is that a common feature on older block planes where mine have a thumb wheel under handle at the rear of the cap iron? What does the brass thumb wheel at the rear of the plane do? Seems like tension on the lever would lift the blade off the bed. Also looks like a lever at the rear (with the loop end) might adjust the blade's lateral position. That is a feature not found on my modern block planes.

Perhaps it's not a block plane, but a small low angle smoother without a tote.

Thanks for your opinions and answers.

Tom

345036345037345038

[Michael Arruda]

I have that same plane knocking around- I think the blade is marked Dunlap. I always assumed it was just a block plane.

-Michael

[steven c newman]

Made by Sargent, Their version of a Stanley #9-1/2 block plane. There MIGHT by a number under the capiron...706?

Brass wheel set the depth of cut.
"Toggle" is Sargent's version, since Stanley patented theirs.

Lever the wheel moves has a pair of "teeth" that engages grooves in the underside of the blade. The bolt takes the place of the bar that goes across on the #110 style of cap iron.

Looped lateral lever, it is attached TO the blade, there is a "fork" at the other end, that goes against the bolt through the cap iron.

IF you loosen the brass knob out in front, there is a lever under it to open or close the opening of the mouth.

[Patrick Chase]

Made by Sargent, Their version of a Stanley #9-1/2 block plane. There MIGHT by a number under the capiron...706?

Total nitpick, but that plane doesn't have a cap iron. I think you meant to write "lever cap" :-)

[steven c newman]

Those are called cap irons. They also serve as chipbreakers. Single iron, the cap iron does double duty. Some have that "bottle cap" tensioner while the better ones use this style.

[Jim Belair]

Oh, oh, I sense another total thread derail coming....

Nice little block plane. Clean 'er up and put it to work.

[don wilwol]

4306?

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/07/15/sargent-hand-planes-by-the-numberwith-pictures/

[Stewie Simpson]

I do have a fondness for the Stanley Lobster Back Block Planes.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/Early%20Stanley%20block%20plane/_DSC0049_zps3whwbl0s.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/Early%20Stanley%20block%20plane/_DSC0049_zps3whwbl0s.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/Stanley%20chisels/DSC_0147_zpsb37b6202.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/Stanley%20chisels/DSC_0147_zpsb37b6202.jpg.html)

[steven c newman]

345121
Brass knob one is a ( made for Great Neck) Stanley #9-1/2, the one beside it is a ( made for Craftsman) Sargent #206
345125
Lateral levers. Top is a Stanley, bottom is by Sargent
Either underneath the cap iron, or under the iron itself, there is usually the model number stamp. There was a 207, and this 206. One with an adjustable mouth, one not.

[John T Barker]

I'm pretty sure my Stanley looks very similar to that. I'll look tomorrow and post a pic.

[Joe Bailey]

Total nitpick, but that plane doesn't have a cap iron. I think you meant to write "lever cap" :-)


Patrick, for the win!

345138
(click to enlarge)

[steven c newman]

Have always called them cap irons....Chart is for a Stanley plane, NOT a Sargent Co. plane...sorry about that.

[lowell holmes]

nit pickers :)

[Ray Selinger]

Joe to be absolutely correct, the terminology will vary both with the company and the country. Take the US main battle rife of WWI, the Model of 1917, commonly called the Enfield ,during WWII Canada after giving Britain 100,000 303s, Canada bought 100,000 of the 30.06s for home guard use. In the Canadian Army they were referred to both in the manual and listing, as the P-17.One of mine with the Canadian army cartouche Cbroadarrow is obviously a P-17!

[Joe Bailey]

Hi Ray
In your example, are they not both rifles? -- aren't you really discussing model numbers?
You wouldn't call one a pistol and the other a rifle, would you?

At any rate, what I did what offer some concrete proof that they are called lever caps.
Secondly, my post was only offered in response to Mr Holmes' post on nitpicking.

[Patrick Chase]

Caps that have no lever are typically "wedges". I'm sure there are other variations out there, but I think that the vast majority of planes use either a lever cap or a wedge to hold the blade assembly (iron plus cap iron, if any) against the frog/sole.

[Rich Riddle]

My question is, "does it function well?"

[Prashun Patel]

I am wedging myself in here to put a cap on the name calling and insulting. I deleted the posts that were not appropriate. Sorry if this has resulted in an unreadable thread.

We don't tolerate fighting and accusations here.

[lowell holmes]

Secondly, my post was only offered in response to Mr Holmes' post on nitpicking.

I was kidding Joe. Most of us in this forum are a bit nit picker.

I have a plane with a handle like that and I never knew it might be called a cap iron.

[Joe Bailey]

I was kidding Joe. Most of us in this forum are a bit nit picker.

I have a plane with a handle like that and I never knew it might be called a cap iron.

Hi Lowell -- I took your post in the spirit in which it was offered (I even noticed the emoticon).

The whole point, I suppose, was that when we're talking block planes, they're not called cap irons.
The "cap iron" (or "chipbreaker", or "double iron") is a secondary steel piece, attached to the blade to act as stiffener/chipbreaker.

The "lever cap" on the other hand (note that it has a "lever") is the top most piece that "caps" off the assembly. It holds the iron, or double iron, in place in the plane body.
It does this by wedge action -- sometimes it is simply wedged under a cross bar and tension is applied by a threaded wheel.

Other times, it is hooked under a screw, then wedged in place when the lever is lifted, or turned to activate a cam.

[steven c newman]

345207
Seemed to work fine for me
345208
Look like the OP's? Have had a few come through the shop
345209
What they look like under the "hood"
345210
They do work nicely....
345211
What the parts for the adjustable mouth should look like. Very different from the Stanley version.

[Rob Luter]

Looks like a Sargent #306

http://www.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/clip_image060.jpg

[Patrick Chase]

Hi Lowell -- I took your post in the spirit in which it was offered (I even noticed the emoticon).

The whole point, I suppose, was that when we're talking block planes, they're not called cap irons.
The "cap iron" (or "chipbreaker", or "double iron") is a secondary steel piece, attached to the blade to act as stiffener/chipbreaker.

The "lever cap" on the other hand (note that it has a "lever") is the top most piece that "caps" off the assembly. It holds the iron, or double iron, in place in the plane body.
It does this by wedge action -- sometimes it is simply wedged under a cross bar and tension is applied by a threaded wheel.

Other times, it is hooked under a screw, then wedged in place when the lever is lifted, or turned to activate a cam.

Please, just... stop.

I know I started this when I nitpicked Steven, and I agree with you, but it's no longer serving any purpose. Everybody who's going to be convinced has been, so continued argument just antagonizes people.

[Tom Blank]

Thanks to Steven for the excellent pictures and description and others for relevant comments. Checked with my son, he has not yet taken the plane apart to see what identifying numbers or logos might be hiding inside. I'm guessing a Sergent #306. To bad he has a real job that sucks up a lot of hours and can't spend as much time at the bench as his retired dad.

Thank you again,

Tom

[steven c newman]

More than happy to help out!