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Derek Cohen
10-02-2016, 10:51 AM
Some months ago, Lee Valley released an upgrade for the Veritas Small Plow that included an improved depth stop and a modification to use the plow as a beading plane.


The modification involved the factory machining a bevel on the skate. I presume that this is to enable the skate to follow inside the path of the narrow land of the bead.


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20Plow/Beading%20Plow/11a_zpsouaiy6ap.jpg


The update to the depth stop provides a reliable grip to its shaft. The original depth stop was apt to slip. Roughing the surface of the shaft helped. My response was to add a slot for a screwdriver, and tighten it up. As seen below, my knob still has the slot. Both plow bodies have the new depth stop ...


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20Plow/Beading%20Plow/12a_zpsxhts4acv.jpg


Lee Valley offered a inexpensive and fairly painless process for those wanting to upgrade their Plows - simply send the basic shell to the factory, and they would machine and return it. Out in the Antipodes, and other non-American lands, this process was not available as the higher shipping costs were a factor. Quite recently, Lee Valley came up with a solution for us, whereby they would simply send out a new, machined body shell to reduce shipping costs both ways.


I was undecided whether I would have the modification done. First of all, I prefer planes that do one thing and one thing well, rather than Swiss Army Knives. I already had a Stanley #45, and rarely use it (it is more interesting to look at). Besides, I have used the beading blades on the #45, and they are only successful on straight grained woods, preferably of the softer type.


Beading with the #45 on quarter grain Tasmanian Oak ..


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ANewAngleOnScratchStock_html_52d52e94.jpg


The interlocked grain on the typical Australian hardwoods I work with are really unsuited to a plough-turned-beader. Then there was the set of beading planes I have recently restored for use - another reason why the Small Plow mod was not a good idea. At least they have a closed mouth to hold down the wood.


Most of all, I use scratch stocks and make my own cutters. And another old photo ..


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ANewAngleOnScratchStock_html_1e699e34.jpg


However, I was curious, and so I sent off for the new, ubeaut, updated Small Plow, and ordered the beading blades (which are PM-V11 steel).


Plus, I had a cunning idea, a plan to make the Small Plow beader bead like no other beader could bead! Let me tell you about this ...


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20Plow/Beading%20Plow/1a_zpslwl6u6fv.jpg


Step one was to test out the Plow on a scrap of Makore (left over from a recent build). I was interested to see what type of finish I could get using a slightly interlocked grain but one with grain that was mainly predictable.


Pop in a newly-sharpened 3/16" blade (they come 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4"). This is no different to set up than a standard plough blade. Planing with the grain, the finish was crisp and free of defects ..


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20Plow/Beading%20Plow/2a_zps5ic6itb6.jpg


Now I turned the board around and planed against the grain. The result was massive tearout, as expected ..


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20Plow/Beading%20Plow/3a_zpskpmnmkis.jpg


OK, so here is the plan: I would use a Stanley #45 beading blade of the same size as the guinea pig. This is identical in thickness to the Veritas blade, just longer. The extra length means that I cannot use the adjuster, and will need to set the depth of cut by hand. What will be different about this blade is that it will receive a 15 degree backbevel. That will create a 60 degree cutting angle! A high cutting angle of this magnitude no longer requires a mouth to control tearout.


Stanley on the left with the backbevel ...


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20Plow/Beading%20Plow/4a_zps5l1ixhft.jpg


So here we are planing into the grain with the Plow plus backbevelled blade ...


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20Plow/Beading%20Plow/5a_zpszmvhyfbo.jpg


And the finish is pretty good! (alongside the bead you will see the tearout in the board that came from flattening it with a jack plane) ..


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20Plow/Beading%20Plow/7a_zps4kvtngyi.jpg


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20Plow/Beading%20Plow/8a_zpsgyri9nha.jpg


After satisfying myself that the backbevel was a Good Idea, the Veritas blade went the same route. This time I planed both ways ... both with- and against the grain.


The result was outstanding. It is difficult to tell which is which ...


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Small%20Plow/Beading%20Plow/16a_zpsgn7f43ou.jpg


In summing up, based on my small experiment, I think that the modification to the Small Plow looks like it will be worth the time and small cost ... if one also uses the blades with a backbevel. Of course, this advice extends to the #45 as well. The nice thing about this mod is that it is now really just a couple of extra blades. There is nothing to set up. I like it. Try it for yourself.


Regards from Perth


Derek
Patrick Chase
10-02-2016, 12:25 PM
Nicely done! Also a lot cheaper than procuring an LH plow plane :).

Just to make sure I understand: You're only back bevelling the "flats" on either side of the bead, right? Do you have any tearout problems along the sides of the beads, or is the effective cutting angle already so high there that it's a nonissue?

I assume you're also stopping before you do significant cutting on the bead top?
Derek Cohen
10-02-2016, 12:32 PM
That's correct Patrick. The tearout comes from the "flats" (or lands, as I referred to them). The backbevel stops this. The back of the blade appears to do minimal cutting if you set the depth stop to finish the cut this way.

Regards from Perth

Derek
john zulu
10-02-2016, 12:47 PM
Very good info there Derek
James Pallas
10-02-2016, 12:47 PM
Hello Derek, A couple of things I have noticed. I have a very good 45. When I got the plane all of the blades were unused, no evidence of sharpening at all. All of the beading irons had a factory back bevel, very small but nonetheless obviously factory done. It was only on "the lands". Also when doing beads on the edge of a board as you show I just reset the fence to reach across the board to plane in the same direction. This, of course would not work for wider material. I have no idea that this is proper proceedure, it does work just fine for me.
Jim
Thomas Schneider
10-02-2016, 1:01 PM
Hi Derek,

Thanks for taking the time to write this up, great job as usual!

Interesting Jim! I have a few sets of unmolested by me 45 and 55 cutters, I'll take a look when I go down there this afternoon.

Tom.
Derek Cohen
10-02-2016, 1:49 PM
Hello Derek, A couple of things I have noticed. I have a very good 45. When I got the plane all of the blades were unused, no evidence of sharpening at all. All of the beading irons had a factory back bevel, very small but nonetheless obviously factory done. It was only on "the lands". Also when doing beads on the edge of a board as you show I just reset the fence to reach across the board to plane in the same direction. This, of course would not work for wider material. I have no idea that this is proper proceedure, it does work just fine for me.
Jim

Interesting, Jim. I wonder if the backbevels were there for this same purpose? Did you resharpen them?

Regards from Perth

Derek
James Pallas
10-02-2016, 2:02 PM
Derek, I first noticed the bevel when I went to sharpen a beading iron. I started on the back and when I took a look, there it was. My first thought was oh s---- now I have some serious flattening. I stopped and thought about it a bit and decided it may be a good thing. In any case it can't hurt. I looked at the other irons and found them the same. May have been just the machinist on that day or maybe not. I just sharpen them that way now. Just like the ruler trick to me.
Jim
steven c newman
10-02-2016, 2:44 PM
Not sure how a back bevel will help a bevel down plough plane's cutters.......since I tend to use the Stanley #45 a lot. Back of my Type 20 SW irons are flat, no back bevel....
Frederick Skelly
10-02-2016, 4:41 PM
Thanks Derek. This will help me.
Appreciate you sharing your experiment with us!
Fred
Patrick Chase
10-02-2016, 5:03 PM
Not sure how a back bevel will help a bevel down plough plane's cutters.......since I tend to use the Stanley #45 a lot. Back of my Type 20 SW irons are flat, no back bevel....

A back bevel increases the cutting angle, so it's more or less equivalent to using a higher-pitched plane. That's a pretty well known way to mitigate tearout.

The only obvious "gotcha" is that you can only (easily) back-bevel the part of the blade that cuts the flats to either side of the beads, so you need to avoid cutting the top any more than is necessary to establish a good shape. The sides of the bead aren't a problem because those are effectively cut on the skew at very high angles.
steven c newman
10-02-2016, 9:43 PM
Just re-checked my bead cutters......not a single back bevel to be found. Since a #45 doesn't cut using a skew.......

Maybe the new and improved kind does. Mine is from about...1925
Gary Muto
10-03-2016, 10:20 PM
Great Idea. Thanks for sharing.
Mike Allen1010
10-04-2016, 7:56 PM
Great idea Derek – thanks for sharing! Crisply executed details like beading always seem to elude me.


I'm definitely going to do this. Any suggestions about how big to make the back bevel?


The Creek is on fire – today I have two ideas I'm going to put into the shop! Thanks Glenn and Derek!


Best, Mike
Patrick Chase
10-04-2016, 11:00 PM
I'm definitely going to do this. Any suggestions about how big to make the back bevel?

In terms of cutting mechanics it's identical to a high secondary bevel on a bevel-up plane, so the same rules will apply for sizing. I routinely use ~0.5 mm secondary bevels with good results, and I suspect that you could go smaller than that.

From comparing dimensions the blade on the left in the 8th picture from Derek's post, it looks like he used a ~0.5 mm back bevel, maybe 0.8 at the very most.
Derek Cohen
10-05-2016, 1:45 AM
In terms of cutting mechanics it's identical to a high secondary bevel on a bevel-up plane, so the same rules will apply for sizing. I routinely use ~0.5 mm secondary bevels with good results, and I suspect that you could go smaller than that.

From comparing dimensions the blade on the left in the 8th picture from Derek's post, it looks like he used a ~0.5 mm back bevel, maybe 0.8 at the very most.

I did not measure the size of the backbevel. Patrick's estimation is probably correct.

Regards from Perth

Derek
lowell holmes
10-05-2016, 10:16 AM
This string inspired me to order two beading irons for the plane. They are on the way.

They will get here someday.:)

I also put a wooden fence on my plane. It is a small strip of walnut that I had.
Derek Cohen
10-05-2016, 11:27 AM
For easy reference, the review is now on my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasSmallPlowasaBeadingPlane.html

Regards from Perth

Derek
lowell holmes
10-05-2016, 11:39 AM
So about 1/8" - 3/16" back bevel will made on my irons after I get them. :)
James Pallas
10-05-2016, 12:08 PM
This is a continuation of my previous post about 45 irons and what I found. The irons appeared to be untouched except for the last picture that has one sharpened and one not. It is difficult to see except on the straight iron. They all had a small back bevel that you may not notice until put on a stone.
Jim