Wood Prices

[Jack Hogoboom]

My wife has been on my case (no pun intended) to build some bookcases for her home office. Today, I finally bit the bullet and went to buy some Walnut to build the bookcase featured in Woodsmith 159. I paid $10.39/bd. ft. for 4/4 Walnut, S2S, $148 per sheet for 3/4 in. Walnut faced plywood and $77 per sheet for 1/4 in. Walnut faced plywood.

Those prices seemed incredibly high to me, but I don't have the ability safely to transport large sheet goods very far. Anyone have any thoughts on prices?

Jack

[Chris Barton]

Hi Jack,

I just bought 100 bf of s2s walnut from Steve Wall lumber for 3.45/bf. This is less than half the price I see at the local Woodcraft. I can't say for sure about the ply but, it does seem higher than what I paid for cherry ply by about 20-30%. All things considered, you probably paid a premium but, in the future if you can get to a local lumber mill you might be able to save some money.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

The prices do seem a bit high. Perhaps try Willard Brothers. They are located just north of Trenton off of US Route No. 1. They have an internet site that mailorders per linear inch at a premium. But when you visit their yard, they sell by the board foot. Can't say that their prices are good or bad. I only bought from them once (red oak), and it seemed OK.
cheers, Jeff

[Andy Haney]

Jack,

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, so please forgive me. I came to the forum today with the following, very similar question. I thought it close enough to the topic to put it here.

I have access to five rough-sawn walnut boards. Each is 4/4, approximately 12" wide and ten feet long (roughly totaling 50 bf). This lumber would probably grade out as "select", not FAS, has been air-dried in a furniture repair man's garage for at least 15 years. As I am a friend of the family, I want to offer a fair price (and still get a good deal, I hope).

Please help with an assessment of what a fair price would be (in Kansas).

Thanks.

[Cecil Arnold]

Jack, did they have a gun when they held you up?? I just checked my price list from one of the local suppliers, 3/4" B-2 VC $101, MDF core $86, 1/4" B-2 $28 and 4/4 (skip planed) is $4.60 bf.

[Jim Hager]

Sure am glad I don't live in New Jersey. I would have to forgo the walnut. I give around 5.50 bd ft for kiln dried s2s FAS walnut. About 80 for the 3/4 ply and around 40 for the quarter.

[Richard Wolf]

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is the other side of the coin from the thread about the "trim prices". Everyone makes more money in the North East. We also pay higher prices for everything. I know that my hardwood dealer doesn't even carry walnut anymore, can't get it at a price that people will pay, and the stuff he can get you wouldn't even want!

Richard

[Dev Emch]

Ouch! That strikes me as very high. But it was pre-finished goods. The lumber was S2S and the sheet goodies were walnut clad.

Personally, I dont deal with final end retailers. I have had my share of arguments with these rascals. I look for old school lumber yards. If the building looks like something from a clint eastwood western and the machines needed new paint years ago and have so much cast iron that they affect magnetic north and the bearings have nice grundgy sawdust grease and oil stains around the journal openings, then I am there! This is a place to frequent!

These are the old world, lumber yards run by old timers and sometimes even amish and meehanite propriators. They are hard working and no nonsense and the lumber is usually solid and rough cut. Its stacked in wooden racks in old dingy warehouses often with old wooden floors.

If the lumber is pristine S2S and the lighting system is computerized and the sales dude is carrying two cell phones and worst of all, if he has an orange or blue vest on, BAIL THE JOINT RIGHT NOW!

On the other had, if the owner wants to show you his 6 inch wide bandsaw blade which fits a head rig taller than your living room, hang out there.

There are plenty of these old timer, mom and pop operations left. Even places like Hearne Hardwoods and Hicksville Planing Mill have a reputation over 1500 miles away! That should tell you something.

As for sheet goods. I have had a bunch of trouble with sheet goods over the last two or so years. Today, I exclusively use baltic birch from europe which comes in 5x5 sheets. Being an extremely busy person, I cannot afford to fix other folks mistakes or quality oversights. So when I need walnut plywood or quarter sawn white oak plywood, I make my own. I resaw the timber, book match it and laminate it to baltic birch subtrates. Its much more work but I know the quality and more importantly, I can depend on the quality. No Excuses!

You should keep a small notebook with notes and addresses of lumber purveyors. Even it it means shipping it or picking it up, often, in the end, its worth while. Some of the best hardwood out there is cut and sawn by folks living in the back country with nothing more than a woodmizer bandsaw mill and a few business cards.

Not only do you get to bypass the middle man but these guys know the good stuff when they find it. You think one of these lumber jockeys will turn over a heavy log of figured maple or cherry to corporate america? Not on your nelly! Their going to keep it for personal use or to sell locally to agument their own income. And hardwood lumber cutting is not what it used to be. You just cannt go in an holtz off an entire hill side! This puts the advantage in the small operation and drives off corporate america as you have to selectively harvest individual trees. So the wood mizer jockey wins out. Even some of the largest hardwood producers are really pretty small in the overall scheme of things.

So it pays to sniff around and find some of these treasured connections and to stock pile good deals when you find them. Most of us have our own juicy "stash" of lumber. Boards bought for their value and beauty but no immediate project in sight.

Best of luck....

[Richard Wolf]

Some questions for Dev;
1) If you only use 5X5 baltic birch, how do you build an 8' cabinet?
2) How many hours do you have in your day? I only have 24.
3) How many gallons of coffee do you drink in a day?

Richard

[Bob Marino]

Jack,

Who is the supplier?

Bob

[lou sansone]

those prices do seem quite high, but walnut is making a comeback and people are willing to pay more for it than they used to. This topic has come up before here at the creek and I have offered the same advice as I will offer now. I have come to adopt the philosophy of buying wood that my wife uses in buying our groceries. Never buy what you need! I will repeat that again Never buy what you need, but buy what is on sale or at a bargin price at the time.

here is a link to part of my wood storage facility that allows me to follow my own advise. Pictured is a walnut plank 20" wide and pretty clear.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=17916

What I have found to work best for me is to try to find wood that I know I will use in the future at a value price and then to purchase it in bulk, either in the form of saw logs for my mill or as rough cut lumber. I know that some may be thinking that this seems out of reach for many, but I think if you start a systematic program of trying each year to obtain some for the pile you will find that in 5 or 10 years you have plenty on hand.

lou

[Steve Clardy]

Some questions for Dev;
1) If you only use 5X5 baltic birch, how do you build an 8' cabinet?
2) How many hours do you have in your day? I only have 24.
3) How many gallons of coffe do you drink in a day?

Richard


Lol:):) :)

[Jim Becker]

Major big-time expensive, Jack. I am thinking you need to look around for new suppliers.

[Lee DeRaud]

If you only use 5X5 baltic birch, how do you build an 8' cabinet?The secret is that it's not 5'x5', it's 1.5m x 1.5m: since it's metric, you can do the impossible with it.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.:p

[Dev Emch]

Richard...

1). Check the time on this post.:rolleyes:

2). Yes, I do believe there are 48 hours in a day.

3). I do purchase massive amounts of coffee. I dont fiddle with those tiny girly man cans.... I buy the big 2 pound, 2.5 oz tubs of the stuff.:D And not that whimpy decaf stuff either! Once at my old work place, the secretary put up a sign. "If the Coffee is empty, You to can make a new pot!". O.K. Folks this is a bad idea when you let those nutty european types at it. I may have been born here but my baby bottle was topped off with mocha and saur kraut juice! So I began making a new pot of coffee as the sign said. Holly cow did some folks throw a piston over that one. "What are you Doing? That stuff will make a horse do a hand stand!".

Yup! Thats the idea isnt it.:D Besides, its *MY* family recepie.

P.S. Pantry cabinets. What a total pain! That is why I sometimes buy the RUSSIAN PLY. Its basicly baltic birch but it comes in 4 x 8 sheets. I am not that well connected to buy this stuff and you personally need to inspect each and every sheet if your not laminating over the stains. I think they use some dead trees to make this stuff as the stains are clearly 1). There prior to the veneer machine slicing it up. You can tell by the semi spalting effect of the stain. 2). It resembles the fungus stain that sometimes prenetrates dead or fallen trees. The laminations were good. Just had a funky spaulting stain on some of the sheets.

[Dev Emch]

I have to agree with Lou... He hit the nail on the head. Just dont show your home insurance agent your new Bonfire waiting to happen... ummm, I mean your stash of lumber.:D

Also, as the lumber ages, it stabilizes in storage to an ideal 6 to 8 percent moisture content. Sweet side effect!

Also note that many dealers price on volume. The big cutoff price is 100 board feet. I really dont like to buy any lumber under 100 bd feet as I will get killed on the price. The next price breaks often happen at 500 bd feet and 1000 bd feet. You may also get breaks if buy lumber in bunks.

Lately its been hard for me to stash larger sums of personal lumber. It seems to come in one door and right out the other. But I am working on it.

[Norman Hitt]

Gosh, Lou, I live in a town with a population of over 100,000 and another town nearly the same size 20 miles away, and between the Two towns, there is only ONE Hardwood Dealer still in Business, and YOU, my friend, have more wood stored than they have in their whole store, (except maybe for the sheet goods they sell). :confused:

All I can say is Awsome, and enjoy your good fortune and keeping an eye to the future.

[Paul Canaris]

I had the same experience when I was in living in NJ. Walnut was so expensive I gave up on using it. :(

Have you tried Interstate Hardwoods in Elizabeth NJ? Not the best neighborhood in the world, but if the price is OK.

The alternative is to move out here to Texas; local mill that cuts and KD's their own has Black Walnut, 4/4 Grade (FAS/SEL) KD for $3.50 bf. :eek:

[Michael Cody]

I guessed at your zip code .. 07945 was what Google had to say.

I used woodfinder.com and got the following:

Out of the Woods Company, LLC
Contact: Gus Carlson
Address: 49 Sims Ln Get a Map!
PO Box 435
East Haddam, CT 06423
Phone: 860-873-1617
Fax: 860-873-1617
E-Mail: outofthewoods@snet.net

Claims to sell at wholesale prices no minimum -- but you have to pickup

Exotic Woods Company
Contact: Gulab Gidwani
Address: 444 Erial-Williamstown Road Get a Map!
P.O. Box 532
Sicklerville, NJ 08081
Phone: 800-443-9264
Phone: 856-728-5555
Fax: 856-728-6262
E-Mail: gulab@exoticwoods.com
Web Address: www.exoticwoods.com

This one looked interesting too, but expensive

If you have a different zip, check out woodfinder it's pretty slick.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Wow...that's a very high price...it's around $6.99 here iirc.

[Jack Hogoboom]

Think from now on I'll just order from Wall or Hearne Hardwoods. The prices are about a 3rd of what I paid for the boards and about 40% less for the plywood. Even if I pay through the nose for shipping, I still come out ahead. Their products are probably a lot better too.

I wish I could find a local lumber mill, but as far as I know, there ain't nothing close. :(

Jack

[Jim Becker]

You can't go wrong with Hearne or Groff or Wall. But you really should give Simmie a call down in Lambertville relative to your walnut needs. (That's where I buy the majority of my cherry) Cash and carry, but very nice product. (No sheet goods--he cuts and dries solid stock only) 609-397-1822