Rebuilding Power Tool Batteries

[CPeter James]

Has anyone used MTO Batter Rebuilders recently? I did a search and could not find any comments since 2013. I have a bunch of Dewalt 14.4 batteries that need to be rebuilt and I used MTO the last time and was satisfied, but the new website does not give any specifics such as the amp hour ratings, etc. Is MTO still a good source?

CPeter

[Bruce Page]

Wow, they really messed up their website with that redesign! Clicking on anything just puts you into an endless loop. You might have to call them.
Like you, I used them about 5 years ago for my DeWalt 14.4 batteries and was satisfied with their work. Those batteries have since gone belly up. I decided to throw in the Ni-Cad towel and bought the DeWalt 20v Lithium XRP drill/driver.

[Ben Rivel]

Never heard of this service, but if you're thinking about refurbing NiCad batteries it might be time to throw the tools out and upgrade to LiIon depending on how invested (how many tools you own) in the old 14.4V stuff you are. It really is a world of difference.

[Van Huskey]

The last time I planned to use them their NiCad and NiMH prices were high enough I just went with batteries off Amazon since I don;t use those tools much. I had good luck for cheap but it seems like it is the luck of the draw since even though they are "branded" the brands seem to come and go and some people have great luck and some not so good. YOu can get the 3Ah 14.4v packs for about $25 each on Amazon. Some of the "brands" have solid looking feedback but who knows how much is fake.

[Dave Sabo]

I used them a couple of years ago with mixed results. Had 4 packs rebuilt with their highest capacity NiMh cells. The Panasonic packs went bad after a short while. They never seemed to get along with the Pany charger. The Festool packs are still chugging along. My impression is they don't last as long as the orig. packs on a charge - which is surprising because I opted to up rate the mAh rating of the cells over the factory supplied.

Now, my experience for the last twenty years was that Panasonic and later Festool had the best NiCad and NiMh batteries and I tried them all: Dewalt, Makita, Bosch, Milwaukee, Hilti, Hitachi, and Fein. Pany and Festl lasted the longest before dying and it wasn't even a close margin.

I adopted 10-12v LiIon very early on and settled on the Bosch platform . Those little packs have lasted longer than even the Panasonic and Festool ones. I still have, and use, the packs from a first generation PS20 driver that I got in early 2007 ! One of them finally gave up the ghost this year, but the other is still going , it's also waning though. 9 years on a battery is insane no matter how you slice it. An OEM replacement retails at $39 and often half that mail order - which means I'm in Van's camp now. Don't think I'll be rebuilding any batteries now.

[CPeter James]

If I was to start over again, I would do something different, but I have 4 drills, 2 impact drivers and a flashlight, all 14.4 DeWalt. Kind of expensive to throw all that out and start over for a home shop.

I guess I should look further and check out some of the other rebuilders. There is one in Maine that had some good reviews and there must be others. MTO's price was $30/ per unit, but no specifications and no information. The website is a disaster. Too bad, it was a good service in the past.

Peter

[Allan Speers]

Most of these battery packs simply have groups of standard rechargeable batteries inside. (some are AA, some are SubC cells, I think.) So, if you can figure how to get them open, and are reasonably proficient with a soldering iron (to connect them) you can just rebuild them yourself, and save even more $$$. Heck, you can even change them form Ni-Cad to NI-MH, though I think you'd then need a new charger. (I'm not sure.)

I love NI-MH for occasional home use. From what I've read LI-ON is best for continuous pro use, but not necessarily for a tool that mostly sits on the shelf. YMMV.
FWIW the new Eneloop Pro AA's are amazingly good. They hold a charge waaaay longer than even the original Eneloops. It's practically magic.

[Allan Speers]

[QUOTE=CPeter James;2608823]If I was to start over again, I would do something different, but I have 4 drills, 2 impact drivers and a flashlight, all 14.4 DeWalt. Kind of expensive to throw all that out and start over for a home shop.
/QUOTE]

Pete, don't quote me on this, but most likely if you were to rebuild your own packs, and you are reasonably clever with mechanical things (aren't all woodworkers?) you you simply add three extra AA cells to the bundle. Then all your tools are magically 18v. I have two Makita drills, one 14.4v, and one 18v, and they are part-for -part identical, except for the battery socket. I would be very surprised if most 14.4v tools had internal components that couldn't take 18v. Maybe even 24v, but I have no idea. Possibly some mechanical parts would be borderline strong enough from the extra torque. And maybe not.

The only reason I'd upgrade from my current 18v stuff is to have brushless motors, but that's not a big enough deal to warrant the switch.

[Wes Ramsey]

Most of these battery packs simply have groups of standard rechargeable AA batteries inside. So, if you can figure how to get them open, and are reasonably proficient with a soldering iron (to connect them) you can just rebuild them yourself, and save even more $$$. Heck, you can even change them form Ni-Cad to NI-MH, though I think you'd then need a new charger. (I'm not sure.)

I love NI-MH for occasional home use. From what I've read LI-ON is best for continuous pro use, but not necessarily for a tool that mostly sits on the shelf. YMMV.
FWIW the new Eneloop Pro AA's are amazingly good. They hold a charge waaaay longer than even the original Eneloops. It's practically magic.

You can order tabbed, 1.2v, sub-C cell batteries many places online. It is possible to solder a tab from one battery to the end of another, but it isn't likely to stick very well and if you overheat the battery (especially Li-ion) they will explode. The preferred method is to use a capacitive discharge welder, which is used for welding sheet goods together. The weld looks like a divot or ping but it is actually a weld of the 2 pieces where soldering in this case would be more of just a really hot adhesive. Most folks don't have a CD welder just laying around, but most heat and air shops have one for welding up duct work. I asked the shop just up the road from me if I could use theirs and they were all over the idea, but I haven't gotten around to trying it yet. Hopefully someday though - I've been offered any number of tool sets with dead batteries that cost barely more to replace than to re-buy the set. Seems like everyone I know has a few of these sitting on a shelf collecting dust.

I actually thought about doing this as a side job a while back, but the margins are just too low and most folks won't pay near off-the-shelf prices no matter how much better the components are. Buying in bulk is cheaper, but in general a tabbed 3600mAh NiCad sub-C is about $3.80. For a 14.4v battery you need 12 cells so materials alone would cost ~$45 per battery. WAY WAY WAY better than OEM, but too expensive for most to even consider. My 20v DeWalt drill with 2 batteries and charger was only $100.

[michael langman]

I used MTO for my NiMh batteries in my Makita 14V drill about 2 years ago. I got better batteries then the original with a longer run time; and they have been great so far.

[Lee Schierer]

I called them about rebuilding my 14.4 volt batteries since I would be traveling by. They prepared the battery packs in advance and did the work while I was there in about 30 minutes. That was about 2 years ago. I had two batteries rebuilt for less than the cost of one new one and they both have more power than the original batteries had when I first got my drill.

[Mac McQuinn]

(9) months ago I used "Prime Cell" to rebuild a pair of 12v Ni-Cads for a German made Milwaukee drill. The shipping was lightning quick and the work was great. These batteries never worked at well, even when brand new. More power, longer life and they stay charged sitting for a very long time. Price was very fair IMO as was the shipping back to me.
Good luck,
Mac

[Chris Kiely]

I have the same issue with 4-5 Makita 18v Li-ion packs. I only have one functioning, but I'm fairly invested in the system with drills, grinder, etc.

Is there anything preventing me from doing a re-build of my batteries? Cannibalize one or two for the good cells?

I've had issues with replacement packs on my charger (replaced the charger last year also) because after three tries the charger locks out the battery pack.

If I work on this, am I just throwing good money after bad, given that Makita has already locked out my batteries?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Allan Speers]

It is possible to solder a tab from one battery to the end of another, but it isn't likely to stick very well and if you overheat the battery (especially Li-ion) they will explode. The preferred method is to use a capacitive discharge welder


Woah, that's good to know! I've never done Li-Ion. What I use is a huge soldering iron, about 1.5' long and very thick. I puts out a LOT of heat, so you only need to touch the battery for a split-second. (and I pre-coat with flux, also.) So far, so good, with Ni-Cad & Ni-Md.

[Allan Speers]

Buying in bulk is cheaper, but in general a tabbed 3600mAh NiCad sub-C is about $3.80. For a 14.4v battery you need 12 cells so materials alone would cost ~$45 per battery. WAY WAY WAY better than OEM, but too expensive for most to even consider. My 20v DeWalt drill with 2 batteries and charger was only $100.

A fair point, but do you really need 3600mAh? A Dewalt XRP, for instance, is only 2.4mAh.
I've seen 12-packs of 5000mAh NiMH SubC cells for $48. Expensive, but that will blow away the stock battery & still cost a little bit less. You can get 16 Tenergy 5000mAh for $64. That makes an awfully tasty 18v.

I guess it's a case-by-case decision.

Oh, and that soldering thing, :eek: if you use Li-Ion.

[John Ziebron]

I have all Dewalt 18 tools. Up until about 3 years ago my batteries were all NiCad or NiMH. Although I still have some of those batteries as backups I really only use Li-Ion ones.

Just to set the record straight on these type of batteries, NiCads were the first rechargeables but they didn't offer much power for their size and they had the memory problem. NiMH batteries were an improvement in that they offered at least twice the power for the same size package, but still have a memory issue if not charged properly.

Li-Ion batteries have several advantages over the other two types. Their power to weight ratio is much greater. In the case of my Dewalt batteries the Li-Ion ones are physically smaller and weigh much less than a the NiMH ones but have the same power. Li-Ion batteries hold their voltage up until they are almost depleted. In using a tool, like a drill, it will gradually slow down and loose power with NiCad or NiMH batteries. But with a Li-Ion battery you basically have full power nad then the drill will just stop when the battery is depleted. This might scare first time users thinking there is a problem with their tool or the battery.

Li-Ion batteries are also much better in colder temperatures. And they have a much better storage charge. In other words, after a year of non use a NiMH battery will have lost at least half it's charge. A Li-Ion battery will still be at about 95% of full charge. The only downside to Li-Ion batteries is higher cost and you do need a special charger.

I don't rebuild any of my batteries. It can be dangerous with a battery exploding if it's heated too much when making connections. On the other hand, I don't buy Dewalt brand batteries because of their high cost and lower power rating. Dewalt's typical high power batteries (at least the 18 volt ones I use) are rated at 2000 Milliampere hours. I buy aftermarket batteries that are 3000 milliampere hours and cost much less. I've had good luck with batteryship.com. They even give you a free charger when you buy Li-Ion batteries.

[Allan Speers]

John, the main problem with Li-Ion, according to most articles, is that they start losing power after 1 year, and die completely after 2-3 years, whether you use them or not. (And that includes any time they spend on the shelf, before you buy them.)

Another problem is that (supposedly) they can be damaged if you run them to depletion.

For a tool that doesn't get used a lot, like my second drill, cordless recipricol saw, etc, that's an important factor. These are the reasons I haven't switched from Ni-MH.


Unless, of course, the newest breed have been improved in this respect, in which case that would be good to know.

[Wes Ramsey]

John, the main problem with Li-Ion, according to most articles, is that they start losing power after 1 year, and die completely after 2-3 years, whether you use them or not. (And that includes any time they spend on the shelf, before you buy them.)

Another problem is that (supposedly) they can be damaged if you run them to depletion.

For a tool that doesn't get used a lot, like my second drill, cordless recipricol saw, etc, that's an important factor. These are the reasons I haven't switched from Ni-MH.


Unless, of course, the newest breed have been improved in this respect, in which case that would be good to know.

I thought it was the other way around. I've never gotten more than 3 years or so out of my DeWalt NiMH (maybe NiCad) batteries. Had one go almost 4 years before it quit taking a charge. My Li-Ion Dremel battery still works after 16 years, though it doesn't last long enough to sharpen my chainsaw and just got replaced with a newer model. But it still works!

[Wes Ramsey]

A fair point, but do you really need 3600mAh? A Dewalt XRP, for instance, is only 2.4mAh.
I've seen 12-packs of 5000mAh NiMH SubC cells for $48. Expensive, but that will blow away the stock battery & still cost a little bit less. You can get 16 Tenergy 5000mAh for $64. That makes an awfully tasty 18v.

I guess it's a case-by-case decision.

Oh, and that soldering thing, :eek: if you use Li-Ion.

When I was researching this I just went with the 3600mAh as a baseline. Way better than any OEM rating and not that much more than the 3000-3200mAh batteries. Buying in bulk they went down as much as $1 each, but I just never got brave enough to buy enough to try it. And DeWalt is the only rechargeable I've ever had - maybe not the greatest for price-to-value comparison, but it's what I know.

I think if you have a quality iron then you might have good success just soldering the tabs. I don't and would have to rely on the a/c shop's CD welder, which is WAY cooler anyway and is safe for welding tabs on Li-Ion batteries. The weld happens in just a fraction of a second. How cool is that?!