Any of these saws I should keep?

[Michael Arruda]

Hello all,

I got bit by the vintage hand tool bug about 10 years ago and since have been buying up old tools as I find them cheap. This has resulted in a good group of Bailey number planes, scrapers, spoke shaves, etc that I regularly use. I have about 50 different chisels that I am going to hold on to- they're just fun to fettle and play with, derusting, sharpening and rehandling.

This brings me to my hand saws. I have a small Jackson dovetail back saw I am going to be keeping, as well as 4 different japanese pattern saws that I use regularly, otherwise most of my saws are old american stuff that I have picked up and never got around to restoring. I want to, but just never have. :) We are moving next year from Southern California to Maine, so I'm trying to decide what saws to keep to restore and what to sell off here to others that want to restore... or paint them. :( I don't think I have anything reall special, and I'm wondering if hand saws may be easier to come by in better shape in Maine, being much closer to where most of the American hand saws were made and used. Eventually I want to have a good rip saw and a good crosscut saw on hand, but most of my work is powered so I don't really know what I need beyond that. Here's what I have-

Disston-
1986-1917 No. 12
1896-1917 D8 Thumb hole
1896-1917 D8
1896-1917 don't know, looks like a small No. 12
1928-1940 D7
1940-1947 D8
1940-1947 D8 Thumb hole
1928-1940 D23
1955-1990 D23 (4 of them)
1947-1955 D8
1928-1940 Keystone K-1 Leader
1930 Keystone K-4 Flying Ace- this is an interesting saw with a thin skew back highly tapered blade and a nice etching
Atkins Skew back
Atkins No. 65
Phenix Warranted by Atkins
Simmons Skew back 'Special$Brand'
Unknown Warranted Superior
Unknown Made in Germany
6 unknown saws, most with totally dead totes
Unknown small wide blade back saw, modern production

You can see pics here-
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/mcarruda/library/Hand%20Tools

Anything here worth saving that you can see? I like the small, unknown keyhole looking saw, the No 12 and the two Atkins saws, just based on the condition and feel of the totes, or handles, whatever ya call them, but one of the Atkins has a pretty bent up blade. Should I keep the two oldes D8s and the No 12? Since none of them are amazingly rare, should I just sell them all and find new when I move?

Input from the neanderthals would be appreciated.

Thanks!

-Michael

[Stew Denton]

H Michael,

The Disston 12 is HIGHLY desirable, and I would certainly keep both unless they are so corroded as to be beyond restoring them to good users. The thumbhole saw is a good choice for heavy ripping. It looks like you have one thumbhole in good shape.

If it were me, I would keep 4, one of each type I like to use. I use an 8 pt crosscut, preferably a 26", for any heavy work, framing carpentry to cut 2X4s, etc., and to reduce lumber to usable size. I use a 10 or preferably 12 point crosscut for finish work, it is also be a good choice for fine woodworking, and a 24" panel saw would be just ducky for that but a 26" would suit me just fine too. The thumbhole is probably a 28" rip saw, and if I had my choice of teeth, I would want it as a 5 pt or 4 1/2 point for heavy ripping work. The last saw I would want would be a 26" 7 point rip for finish work or for fine woodworking.

If I were in your situation, I would keep those 4 patterns of saws. I would keep the ones I liked the best which were in the best shape, but the Disston 12s are so desirable that if they were, again, in restorable shape where you would end up with a good user, I would hold on to them. They are quite pricy and extremely hard to come by, and the very few guys who are fortunate enough to have one, who have written about them, like them a lot. (Which is why they are so pricy.)

You can get the saws re-toothed to the teeth pattern you want, so if your best saws are not in the desired tooth pattern you can have them re-toothed. The idea is that you want to keep the best saws and have them set up to the tooth pattern you need.

It looks like the thumbhole in really nice shape may be finer toothed than I would love to have, a 4 1/2 or 5 point 28 inch rip, but it kind of looks like it may be a 6 point. If so, I would count my blessings and leave it in that tooth pattern, knowing that I could always have it re-toothed later if I decided to go that route.

My background is carpentry, so I like 26" saws, but for finish work a lot of guys who do fine woodworking prefer a panel saw in 24 or even 22 inches for their finish crosscut saw, and maybe even for their finish rip saw, but I wouldn't consider anything shorter than 24" for a rip saw.

Whatever you decide to keep, you want saws that are either in excellent condition, or at worst can be restored to good condition. For me, a D-8 that is in excellent shape is far more desirable than a 12 that at best can only be restored to fair condition. If you aren't moving for a while, I would restore the 12s first so you can tell what you've got. If they turn out to be not restorable they don't gain you much for use.

Stew

[Michael Arruda]

Stew,

Thanks for the input! I'll look through them and see what I can pull out compared to your recommendations.

I have a couple Foley saw filers and a couple tooth setters I can use to get them roughly on shape, or I have a saw vise and manual setter with some triangle files I can use to do it all by hand. Unfortunately, no good way to punch teeth myself- when I bought the Foley stuff a while back, the seller advertised a tooth cutter with guide bars as well, but come to find out, of course, he sold it separately before I got there. After telling him it was really the only thing worth getting, I got everything else pretty cheap, but man, that stung.

-Michael

[Dave Beauchesne]

Michael:

Are you my twin? Being that we pick up old WW tools and hope to fettle them later and all - -

Stew has good advice - the 12s are highly sought after and I too love the look of the D8s - I haven't got as far as you yet in that I haven't made a saw vice, but I have at least 3 times as many saws as you - Getting much more picky as to what I drop $$ on.

That being said, you are moving to Maine; the Eastern seaboard is a hotbed of old tools - keep 4 -5 saws you like, and resume rust hunting in your new locale -

Good luck!

Dave B

[lowell holmes]

I have a D12 that I will keep. As a matter of fact, I am making a new handle for it now. The handle that came with it is ugly. I will keep the original handle in case I need to dispose of the saw for some reason.

I have a D7 that I favor as well. Actually, it is my favorite crosscut. I have already put a new handle on it.

[Stew Denton]

Michael,

You don't have to have a dedicated tool to re-tooth a saw. You can mark the locations of the teeth with a file or hack saw followed by work with a file to bring the teeth to the correct shape and sharpen them. I have even advised against a person doing that in the past on sawmillcreek, saying to take it to a professional sharpening service, but have since decided that I can do it for my own saws that I need to re-tooth.

There is a post on Saw Mill Creek that deals with such:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?238116-Retoothing-a-Saw

As mentioned in the above post there are also videos on Youtube, type in "retooth (or retoothing) a saw" on Youtube. You can also pay a pro to re-tooth the saw for you for a reasonable fee.

At any rate, you aren't trying to sharpen saws for a living, so you don't need the professional stuff to re-tooth because high speed tooth cutting is not something that you need.

One other thought, there is no reason that your finish rip saw has to be a 7 point. If you have duplicate of an 8 point crosscut that you don't mind converting to an 8 point rip, just re-file it to a rip tooth configuration. That should do about as well as a 7 pt rip, and you may actually have a 7 point crosscut that you can file so much the better. I have thought about refiling a crosscut to a rip a few times just because it would be easy, and I have 8s that would do just ducky for that. Also if the thumb hole saw you have is a 6 point rip, I would give it a go as my finish rip and see how it does.

Stew

[Michael Arruda]

Here's some more info-
small unknown open handle saw- 8TPI Cross cut 20" blade- I like open handles and this is cute so I will be keeping it.
No 12- 6TPI rip, 27" blade
Pre '17 D8- 7TPI Rip, 26" blade, cracked up handle
Pre '17 D8 Thumb hole- 5 TPI Rip, 28" blade, some cracks in handle
Pre '17 tiny #12 lookalike with the medallion and two other nuts- 7 TPI rip, needs retoothing, 17.5" blade
Pre '40 D23- 10 TPI Crosscut, 26" blade
Pre '40 D7- 9 TPI Crosscut, 20" blade
Pre '47 D8- 8 TPI Crosscut, 26" blade
Pre '47 D8 Thumb hole- 5 TPI Rip, 26" blade
Pre '55 D8- 11 TPI Crosscut 26" blade