New wood. !!

[Bill Jobe]

Found what I think is some pretty nice wood. I'd like your opinions as to it's worth for turning. Most of it will have to wait for a bigger lathe.
Also, can you identify the species, please. Thanks. Bill

As for this stuff I picked up about 6" and because of it's
Girth I had the seller to rip it.

[daryl moses]

Looks like Eastern red Cedar [aromatic cedar] sap wood looks a little punky but the heart wood look ok. I've turned some and it turns ok.

[Bill Jobe]

Of course I had to nip off a piece to play with the HF mini.

[John K Jordan]

Looks like cedar to me too, from the transverse section and color, or something like cedar. I especially like it when it is highly figured with white mixed in with the red.

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I love turning cedar, easy to turn, finishes nicely. Here are some examples. Some is prone to tearout and needs very sharp tools. Go easy on the sanding - too much heat can cause checks. I often finish with just beeswax since I like the look. The vessel in the first picture is finished with 6 coats of spray lacquer.

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I have 17 cedar logs in a pile at the moment. Anyone local want some drop by. I often make 2" or thicker slabs on the sawmill. Dries quickly, very stable. These are about 18" across:

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JKJ

[Roger Chandler]

Yep.....cedar.

[Bill Jobe]

John, that blanK looks amasing. It looks as though it was shot in 3D.

Can you confirm or put to rest something I posted a short while back that there are no cedar trees in the US, at least not in enough to provide much lumber. A book I read from 1980 claimed that what we buy and use is instead one of a number of varieties of Junipers.

[Bill Jobe]

And the bowl in photo #3 is beyond words.

[Bill Jobe]

Another piece I got. This is a slice I asked him to cut off just prior to sealing it. Don't know what it is.

[robert baccus]

Juniper in the east and south is often called e.red cedar. Real name -- Juniperus virginiana. Hence the reason for scientific names.

[Bill Jobe]

And I grabbed this piece.
I'm partially colorblind so it may be just another shot of cedar, but I was thinking he said it is hickory.

[Bill Jobe]

Is this considered a proper way to dry green wood? The pieces are supported in the back by an I beam, in the front with 2x4s. I gave them several coats of a gallon of a Walmart blooper...tint was off a bit so got it cheap. Also, it's exterior paint. The garage is neither heated nor cooled so they will endure 100+ temps in summer and -20 to -25 in winter. Here you see them stacked against the back wall of my garage.

Also, again my fault for not shooting them prior to sealing, can you identify the species?

[Bill Jobe]

One more pic. I don't have a clue. The guy was just racing around looking for pieces he thought I'd want. And of course I took them all.

[John K Jordan]

...Can you confirm or put to rest something I posted a short while back that there are no cedar trees in the US, at least not in enough to provide much lumber. A book I read from 1980 claimed that what we buy and use is instead one of a number of varieties of Junipers.

Bill,

You can put it to rest! There are many cedar trees in the US. There are hundreds on my property alone.

It is all in the name. Each wood has a scientific name and one or more common names. Yes, Eastern Red Cedar has the scientific name of Juniperus virginiana. Can we call this a Juniper? Yes, if we don't want most people to understand. Do we HAVE to call this a Juniper? No. We can refer to the Juniperus virginiana tree as Eastern Red Cedar, Eastern Redcedar, or Aromatic Red Cedar, Pencil Cedar, and probably some others.

Insisting that ERC be called Juniper is a hobby some people have. (They never call it a Juniperus tree.) I notice the same people don't insist that we have no Oaks in the US, since the scientific name, Quercus ruba, doesn't have the letters "oak". Then how about Maple? Maybe we have no maples in the US, we just have Acers.

But confusion with common names is in fact common in different regions, especially where the same species has different names and different species have the same name. I remember one confusing discussion about "poplar" where in most were thinking Liriodendron tulipifera when the question was about Populus. http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/poplar-cottonwood-and-aspen-whats-what/
(http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/poplar-cottonwood-and-aspen-whats-what/)
Note that many wood dealers don't even know what they have. It is common practice to guess at names or even make up names to get the wood sold. Sometimes they make up names to intentionally mislead the buyer to increase sales. The best defense, where it matters, is to learn how to identify wood yourself.

It is true that much confusion in the wood world would be eliminated if we only used the scientific names like we do with Magnolia (Magnolia grandiflora, Magnolia acuminata, Magnolia virginiana). This would really help with "Ironwood". But imagine the forum posts:

My latest Arbutus hollow form
I just scored some Cornus wood
What is the best finish for Diospyros, ...

If you want most woodturners to know you what you have, call it Cedar, Eastern Red Cedar, or ERC.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

Is this considered a proper way to dry green wood? The pieces are supported in the back by an I beam, in the front with 2x4s. I gave them several coats of a gallon of a Walmart blooper...tint was off a bit so got it cheap. Also, it's exterior paint. The garage is neither heated nor cooled so they will endure 100+ temps in summer and -20 to -25 in winter. Here you see them stacked against the back wall of my garage.


Bill,

That may work with some of the pieces. Unfortunately, depending on many factors, sections of trees will still often crack and split even if well sealed. This may happen over a few weeks or a few months. Not all wood, but much. Eastern Red Cedar is particularly stable and can be left in big chunks, especially if you first remove the sapwood. Dogwood, most fruitwoods, many others - if not processed or used quickly may end up as firewood. I have seen 1" wide spits in 8" dogwood rounds after a month inside in an unconditioned garage. Removing the pith helps to avoid the worst splits but again, "it depends". Some people may respond with success stories; others with firewood stories.

"The Experts" recommend not accumulating more wood than you can use in a week or two. By "use", they mean turn to a finish piece or rough turn and put aside to dry. Another way to "use" green wood is to process it into smaller pieces and dry those.

Since I mostly turn dry wood, I have a lot of experience with the latter. I cut almost everything I get into pieces blocks and squares on a bandsaw, from 1" to 6" or so square. For platters and bowls I usually cut thick slabs. The sizes I make depends on many factors. I cut off any endgrain checks, rip between any cracks, seal the newly cut ends immediately, mark each piece with the date, then stack these pieces loosely on wire shelves. After they dry significantly, I usually shave some thin sections off the ends to inspect for end checks, remove those, reseal, and finish drying. This process is not for the impatient. Much of the wood I'm using now has been drying at least 6 years. The dogwood I use now I cut and processed 10 years ago. I have some larger pieces drying now for almost 20 years.

As I said, this method doesn't work well for the impatient. It also doesn't work well for big bowls since a large blank of most species is likely to split far before it dries. Again, in this case the best advice I have read is to only collect green wood that you can use quickly.

BTW, any sealer on the ends is better than none. Some people have found that paint doesn't work nearly as well as the emulsified wax sealer such as Anchorseal. Dipping in hot paraffin works better than Anchorseal. I notice that many exotic wood blanks are dipped, sometimes completely, in paraffin wax. Some sawmill/drying people say that if you use paint, use aluminum paint.

BTW2, there are some other ways to save big chunks of wood indefinitely. One is to submerge them in water. Another is seal them and put them in a (big) freezer.

BTW3, I can recommend a good book for someone who is interested in learning the why and the how:
Understanding Wood: A Craftsman's Guide to Wood Technology, by R. Bruce Hoadley
https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Wood-Craftsmans-Guide-Technology-ebook/dp/B004WYO862

This book, and others like it, has a wealth of information about the structure of wood and why it behaves the way it does. Most people won't take the time to even read information like this, let alone study it.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

Also, again my fault for not shooting them prior to sealing, can you identify the species?

Photographing wood to ID is often a waste of time. Unless the wood is very distinctive, many photos of cut sections of wood and even of the bark can look the same. Just see the posts where someone shows a photo of a board and gets 10 different guesses.

I have made wood id a bit of a hobby. For many species, examining the end grain of a properly prepared small sample may immediately show the species. White oak, for example, is distinctive. Elm has wavy bands of latewood pores. Even if the exact species can't immediately be determined, it is often easy to say what the wood CANNOT be. For example, a ring-porous wood cannot be cherry. A diffuse porous wood cannot be oak. Other clues are the orientation of the both the earlywood and latewood pores, the size and distribution of the rays, the presence of tyloses in the large pores, and more.

Elm:

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All that is needed is a razor blade and a 10x hand lens. I usually use a low-power stereo microscope because I have one. I also sometimes use a 365nm UV light since some woods have distinctive fluorescence under UV light. The hardness and relative weight of the wood can help. Figure (which many people mistakenly call "grain"), color, and lightness/darkness can be helpful but keep in mind they are the most variable and can look wildly different in trees grown in different environments and even within sections of the same tree.

The book Identifying Wood by Hoadley is a good start. The Wood Database also has some useful info: http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-identification-guide/

All this takes some time but I find it fun to do. But you can do like most people when they don't have the bark or leaves or absolutely trust the source: guess a species and write it on the bottom of the piece. Or just call everything cherry. This method does give those who can see the difference a private chuckle. I remember the guy who passed around a bowl that was obviously ring porous, even without a magnifier. It was labeled "cherry".

If the species is important and you are a US citizen the US Forest Products Laboratory will positively ID up to five sample of wood per year. Check their web site.

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

The last one does look like hickory, but around here it would be heavily degraded after sitting for an extended period of time.

Drying wood as logs just doesn't work in my experience. Within a month or two you need to turn it, cut it up into smaller blanks to dry, or toss it, or it will seriously degrade. Cracks, bugs [worms], fungus discoloration. Those logs already look pretty bad but they can still get worse.

I write this and I have a huge pile of wood in my driveway. Oughta get to it I guess.

[Bill Jobe]

The last one does look like hickory, but around here it would be heavily degraded after sitting for an extended period of time.

Drying wood as logs just doesn't work in my experience. Within a month or two you need to turn it, cut it up into smaller blanks to dry, or toss it, or it will seriously degrade. Cracks, bugs [worms], fungus discoloration. Those logs already look pretty bad but they can still get worse.

I write this and I have a huge pile of wood in my driveway. Oughta get to it I guess.

Thank you, Bob. Yes, I grabbed some big pieces and perhaps I should have had the guy cut them down smaller. These pieces cannot be turned on my current lathe. They'll have to wait til I get the bigger lathe I'm planning to by. Since most of what I dragged home was green, yet not sealed I had him cut a couple of inches off each end, then as soon as he shut off his chainsaw I painted the ends right away.
For the most part I have no wood that is dry enough to turn, so I pick up relatively small pieces at a small local mill that has been kiln dried.

[Bill Jobe]

John, thank you for the wealth of information.
I actually bought my granddaughter a sterio microscope for here birthday several years ago because at the time she was interested in bugs and small crestations, so I think I'll borrow it, look at some shavings of this wood to determine what they are and go from there.

[Bob Bouis]

Sounds like a chainsaw should be on your list. It's really far more valuable to a woodturner than...just about anything. You don't need the precision of a bandsaw to cut wood for turning.

While I don't recommend it (I have one, it sucks for serious use), a cheap electric chainsaw can get it done. I think I got the 14-amp (not 14", 14 amp) corded "Worx" saw for about $50. Don't bother with the cheap gas saws. Just make sure you read up on how to use it before starting.

[John K Jordan]

John, thank you for the wealth of information.
I actually bought my granddaughter a sterio microscope for here birthday several years ago because at the time she was interested in bugs and small crestations, so I think I'll borrow it, look at some shavings of this wood to determine what they are and go from there.

Shavings may not help. Cut a small transverse section, no more than 1/2" x 1/2" by whatever you can hold on to is needed but bigger will work. I like about 3/4" wide (since it's easier to write on) and I just shave one part clean. If using a microscope instead of a hand lens it helps if all the samples are about the same thickness to minimize focusing. If the wood is dry and/or very hard, soak in water for a while. Use a new single-edged razor blade (I buy them in bulk) and shave off all saw marks in a section using a slicing motion until you are down to the clean wood. Some references say to sand with fine paper but this leaves dust in the pores, hides the tyloses, and rounds over detail.

A magnifier or LOW power microscope should show crisp pores and rays, like the elm photo. (The power should be no higher that 15x - don't try to use a laboratory microscope which typically has 40x minimum magnification.) A good reference book will help narrow down the type of wood. The Identifying Wood book by Hoadley, the online Wood Database, and the database published, Wood! Identifying and Using Hundreds of Woods Worldwide by Eric Meier can help.

If you start this, do it for every wood your acquire, especially if you know the species for sure. Save photos if possible but definitely save the wood samples and write the species on them. If stumped, send a second sample to the Forest Products Laboratory. You will gradually develop your own reference library and be able to quickly compare samples to new wood. Then you can just shake your head when someone posts a picture of a board and asks what it is. :)

This is "hands down" the best lens/loupe I have found. Inexpensive, good optics, 10x, internal scale, evenly lighted, even comes with batteries.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMDIOBK
I think I bought 8 of these so far and give them to friends and have the in the shop and house. Great for splinters, spider ID, currency, sharp tool evaluation, ...
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JKJ

[Bill Jobe]

Sounds like a chainsaw should be on your list. It's really far more valuable to a woodturner than...just about anything. You don't need the precision of a bandsaw to cut wood for turningu.

While I don't recommend it (I have one, it sucks for serious use), a cheap electric chainsaw can get it done. I think I got the 14-amp (not 14", 14 amp) corded "Worx" saw for about $50. Don't bother with the cheap gas saws. Just make sure you read up on how to use it before starting.

Yep, got a 14" gas.
My real problem (aside from chainsaw) is that I have no way of roughing anything. At the present time all I have is a 10" swing and moving up to 22". I suppose I could rough the outside.
Perhaps I'll do just that with the bigger pieces....and a couple that need to be cut in half or even 3 sections.

I may need to hire an electrician because my electrician son-in-law works a lot of hours. No way to tell when he'll be free to run the 220 to the garage and I don't think the wife would put up with a 0766 sitting just outside the laundry room.

Oh well, Grizzly's website tells me there isn't one available to ship anyway.

[John K Jordan]

Sounds like a chainsaw should be on your list. It's really far more valuable to a woodturner than...just about anything. You don't need the precision of a bandsaw to cut wood for turning.

While I don't recommend it (I have one, it sucks for serious use), a cheap electric chainsaw can get it done. I think I got the 14-amp (not 14", 14 amp) corded "Worx" saw for about $50. Don't bother with the cheap gas saws. Just make sure you read up on how to use it before starting.

I disagree about the bandsaw. Yes, I use chainsaws to cut round chunks out of trees and occasionally cut them in half. But if it's not too big, cutting a log section in half and trimming is quicker with the bandsaw and far safer than the chainsaw. As I mentioned earlier, I make a lot of spindle/box/vessel blanks up to about 5-6" square but also make most of my bowl and platter blanks with just the bandsaw.

If I had a friend with a chainsaw who would cut the logs into sections for me, I'd get a bandsaw first. I think it is the most versatile power tool in the shop, not only for woodturning but for making jigs, shelves, and more. For woodturning, as long as my log or section is less than 12" in one dimension and not over about 3' long I can process the entire piece on my bandsaw from log to bowl or other blanks without touching the chainsaw. Several times I've had friends without bandsaws come over with a truck full of log sections and go home with the bed full of bowl blanks. Of course, if I wanted to prepare big bowl blanks (up to 24" in diameter), I would use the chainsaw to cut them in half before I moved to the bandsaw.

I use an 18" Rikon but did the same type of processing with a 14" Delta with riser block, just not as fast.

Besides making a bowl blank almost perfectly round so it will fit on the lathe, for me a real value of dimensioning with a bandsaw is it exposes all sides of the wood cleanly so I can evaluate both the soundness and the color/figure. These are things hard to evaluate with a chainsawn surface. Cutting thin slices off the endgrain of a blank and bending them can expose tight cracks and checks that could be a real problem when turning.

After my turning blanks are dry and done warping I usually skim all sides again with the bandsaw to expose clean wood, check for defects created by the drying, I cut any defects away or mark them with a red Sharpie so I won't be unpleasantly surprised when turning some day.

Although I use the bandsaw more than I do the chainsaw it is best, if possible, to have both. I use a Stihl electric around the shop. Although it is not cheap, I can highly recommend the Stihl. I have three gas powered Stihl chainsaws to compare and the electric is definitely no slouch. If I wanted to run a cord I could easily fell and clean up trees with it. I like being able to use it inside the shop too. It is far safer, quieter, starts instantly every time, and is way less trouble than a gas saw.

Another thing I keep handy in my shop is a very sharp hatchet to clean up lumps and such from a log section so it will sit nicely on the bandsaw table, or flatten a section of a bowl blank for my screw chuck or faceplate. Some people use a hand or electric plane for this. And don't forget, people used to, and some still do, use a bow saw by hand to prepare bowl blanks. You can do a great deal with the right hand saw. It would be pretty easy to rough out blanks with a good bow saw so they would fit on a 10" lathe.

BTW, I keep a different kind of bandsaw behind the barn, occasionally handy for woodturning! But it's almost like cheating...

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JKJ

[Bill Jobe]

Does fresh-cut cedar require sealing of ends?

[John Keeton]

Bill, in my opinion, all fresh cut wood and most kiln dried wood should be end sealed if it is not going to be turned immediately. Even cutting off a piece of kiln dried wood can expose the ends to a change in moisture content and best to slow that process, whether it is losing moisture or gaining it. There are also structural forces that are at play and cutting the wood can release stress.

[John K Jordan]

Does fresh-cut cedar require sealing of ends?

Require? I don't know. I always paint a coat of Anchorseal on the end grain. My cedar turning blanks don't warp and rarely get end checks. However, I don't know if this is because I seal it or if it would not crack even if I didn't seal it.

For turning blanks, I cut blocks with the bandsaw as mentioned before, seal the ends, and stack the loosely to dry. I haven't paid much attention to when various sizes are dry since I have plenty that has been drying for many years and add more periodically.

JKJ