Why would I pay $300 for a framing square

[lowell holmes]

When I can add wooden blocks to the short leg of the square that I have?

[Stewie Simpson]

Depends what size your after lowell. Mine is 4 ft x 5 ft and made of old growth Huon Pine.

If your discussing a Roofing Square, that's a bit different.

[Rob Luter]

Why would you pay $300 even if you needed a full size framing square? Framing is pretty coarse work. It's not like you need a Starrett.

$15 at a home center.

http://mobileimages.lowes.com/product/converted/038548/038548995205.jpg

[Art Mann]

I have gone to Lowe's and compared Swanson brand (I think) squares with each other and found they weren't the same. You can't always trust the accuracy of manufactured tools. You must be talking about the "one time tool" being advertised lately. You can buy accurate squares for far less money than that. Its just that the tool is so pretty and colorful - perfect for tool collectors. It can't be manufactured for normal woodworkers because the company doesn't think it worthwhile to make them on a regular basis.

[Brian Holcombe]

Chappell's largest square is $124, and I'm sure they're at the high end, which square are you referring to that costs $300.

[Robin Frierson]

I have a large turned bowl bought in Tasmania.... made from old growth Huon Pine. Wood salvaged from the stumps. Beautiful wood.

[Stewie Simpson]

Robin; I was lucky enough to stock up on Huon Pine years ago, before they resorted to digging up the stumps. The rough sawn board shown in the photo is Huon Pine.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/huon%20pine/_DSC0189_zpstn0mbt9o.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/huon%20pine/_DSC0189_zpstn0mbt9o.jpg.html)

[lowell holmes]

:)
I have a perfectly good framing square. I know how to check a square and if it needs adjusting, do so with a center punch.

I was intrigued by the pretty square with the handle. If it were a $50 tool I would buy it.

I could put a nice handle on one of my two framing squares, but I don't know what I would use it for in my shop.

You can tell I like framing squares, sheet rock squares, . . . . just about any square, but I'm not spending hundreds of dollars for one.:)

Just a not-so-foolish old man intrigued with a pretty picture.

[Bill Houghton]

There are several companies out there now making fancy versions of old tools and charging fancy prices. Not sure who their market is, but it's not me.

[James Pallas]

When I can add wooden blocks to the short leg of the square that I have?
That is only the beginning of it. All of your other tools have to be of equivalent accuracy or all is lost. If you butt your plastic speed square against it on a hot day look out.:) They are nice tools and fun to look at and fondle if you get a chance.
Jim

[Chuck Nickerson]

Don't you guys ever tire of complaining about the price of Woodpecker's 'One-time' tools?

I say this as someone who owns NONE of them.

[Garth Almgren]

My wife and I bought a small cutting board in the shape of Tasmania made out of Huon. What a great smelling wood!
I probably spent an hour at a mill on the waterfront in Strahan (Wilderness Woodworks?) watching them sawing some recovered Huon on their reciprocating gang saw.

[Simon MacGowen]

Why? Some people have the money and are willing to buy what they think is good for them. A lot of boutique tools are sold because "why" is not important; what is important is one has the spending power. I say that is good for the economy and good for the fancy tool owners, as long as not everyone produces fancy tools only, making hobby woodworking no longer affordable to the mass.

Simon

[Frederick Skelly]

In the end it's like high end cars - if you earned your money by hard work and you want to spend it on luxury items, hey that's your business. It's not my gig but then it's not money either, right?

But it's still fun to sit around and go "Why the devil does anybody need THAT?!?!?!!!" :D:D:D

Fred

[Rob Luter]

I respect the desire of some to own hyper accurate tools. I'm a tool nerd too. That said, there comes a time of diminishing returns. A $300 framing square with machine tool accuracy is akin to measuring a 2x4 with a micrometer. You know exactly what size it is, but in the grand scheme it doesn't matter.

[Brian Holcombe]

I see it at $200 or $160~. There are plenty of expensive measuring tools out there...I don't see the complaint.

Rob, I think it depends on what you're building and what level of accuracy that you build to. I get by on my $20 framing square, but I've checked it for accuracy. Anytime I'm out of square it's usually due to me and not it, but I can see wanting a high level of accuracy and more than that....the aluminum ledge which is a nice feature.

[george wilson]

I have found my ordinary quality framing square quite accurate when I compare it to my $2500.00 24" Starrett machinist's square,even though it is one of those chomped out rather than the good,old quality ones with ground edges. It is only a framing square,after all. Not really intended for accurate cabinet making.

I would rather have a steel one than an aluminum one. Pretty anodizing or not! And,plastic stuff is right out of consideration. As said,they can be adjusted with a punch if not perfectly true.

[Andrew Hughes]

Some of my favorite tools are pricey and when I use them they improve my attitude.
And that improves my work.
Since my brain tells my hand what to do.
What ever it takes to bring out the best in us is highly recommended.

I have two woodpecker tools one I like one I don't .

Aj

[James Pallas]

I just want to have confidence in the measuring tool I am using. If it takes that type of square to give you confidence than by all means buy one. It may not be for everyone. I have a Stanley framing square that I've had for thirty years or so that only gets used for shop work. I also have a metric one for shop work that gets used infrequently. I have yet another one that I use for outside work. I check their accuracy once in a while just to keep my confidence in them. I don't think buying a square so expensive would give me anymore confidence. I will buy any tool that I think I need in order to accomplish the task at hand. If I don't need the tool long term I will rent it. When I do rent I always end up checking the tool for accuracy and safety before I use it.
Jim

[Ray Selinger]

As a carpenter, we use to joke you could read everything off the framing square tables, even the name of your wife's boyfriend. We considered the aluminium ones both the nicest to use and most accurate.

[John Schtrumpf]

... I would rather have a steel one than an aluminum one. Pretty anodizing or not! And,plastic stuff is right out of consideration. As said,they can be adjusted with a punch if not perfectly true.
That is my biggest hangup with their tools. For the price, they could at least make them out of stainless steel. Aluminum and marking knives do not get along together.

[Stew Denton]

I got an email add for that square too. After looking it up on the woodworking supplier site, the price was shocking to say the least. I won't be buying one of those any time soon.

I did assume that the square was intended to be used for fine woodworking. I can't imagine taking one of those to any carpentry job that I ever worked on.

Stew

[Art Mann]

Chappell's largest square is $124, and I'm sure they're at the high end, which square are you referring to that costs $300.

This may be it.

http://www.woodpeck.com/psq2016.html

[Brian Holcombe]

This may be it.

http://www.woodpeck.com/psq2016.html

I'm splitting hairs here, but that is $229. :D Still fairly expensive for a framing square.

[Phillip Mitchell]

What framing square costs $300? I agree that an accurate and "square" framing square is useful and even necessary (for timber framing more so than stick framing) but I can't see what you would gain above the quality/accuracy of the Chappell square...

[steven c newman]

Maybe I should sell mine? Nah,,been using the old since the mid 80s....and my Dad's is still hanging up in his basement. Brown with white numbers.

people are willing to spend THAT much for a simple, framing square? In the same vein as " I've got swampland for sale..." maybe I should put a price like that on this one?
344722
Brass and Rosewood....and a patent date...12/29/96. 10" Stanley square. The long bevel finder is 12" long on the blade.

Might throw "Shorty" in as a bonus.....Hey, IF they can find people who would pay THAT much for a framing square......:D

[Roger Nair]

The woodpecker framing square is a misnomer in that it will not be an effective substitute for a traditional framing square rather I feel it is more like an oversized try square. Since it is not made from steel, edge wear will rob the user of accuracy with daily steady use.

Quality framing squares are a limited source product. One of the best is Shinwa American pattern from Lee Valley, stainless steel with ground edges, about $76.00. Alpha square from Germany with a quadrant, is ideal for angular layout, about $125.00. The Chappell square series is worth a look over, if you are ready to use scales that read 1/20th inch.

It is unfortunate that the American pattern steel square with hardened and tapered body with ground edges is a tool of the past. Stanley stopped production in the early 1970's. Lucky flea market finds have been rare for me. If you find a framing square with crisp ground edges and thickened at the joining of blade and body, buy it. They are getting more rare.

[george wilson]

Amen to the above!!! Not that I use framing squares much,but I am yet to find a ground edge one myself. That stainless steel one sounds nice!

Obviously there is a reason for aluminum framing squares,especially when you are crawling about on a frame job a few stories up. I prefer steel because it is more robust and I only work in a shop anyway.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Phillip,

It is a Woodpeckers square, and the accuracy is 0.002." I can't imagine any carpentry work that requires that kind of accuracy, which is why I am thinking it has to be made for fine woodworking.

Stew

[Josh Nelson]

Hi Phillip,

It is a Woodpeckers square, and the accuracy is 0.002." I can't imagine any carpentry work that requires that kind of accuracy, which is why I am thinking it has to be made for fine woodworking.

Stew

Years ago, I built the Gingery Lathe and its accuracy was about the same as that square. Maybe I'm going it wrong but quibbling down that far allowed me to build machine tools, not sure I'd need that level of accuracy in any fine woodworking situation. Just my .02.

[Jeff Maberry]

or out in the hot sun all day and you will know why aluminum framing squares are better then steel, they don't burn your hands like the steel ones do

[Trevor Goodwin]

Not long ago I had to get a straightedge. I was torn between aluminium and steel so I got one in both, a 500mm steel and a 1000mm aly. I don't think durability is a problem for the aly straight edge, it is a precision tool and you treat it with care. Do you buy a HSS chisel over carbon steel because it can survive a drop on a concrete floor?
The other argument I see against aly is that you can't run a knife along the edge, this is false. If the edge of your knife was really in contact with your steel straight edge then it would dull very quickly. My aly straight edge is anodized so it has a hard external layer that protects it from scratches. In hand, the steel straight edge feels more accurate, probably because it is much heavier, I'd say it's more suitable for machinists who need the highest precision. It also wants to rust whenever you touch it so I have to keep it oiled and away from wood dust.

[Patrick Chase]

Not long ago I had to get a straightedge. I was torn between aluminium and steel so I got one in both, a 500mm steel and a 1000mm aly. I don't think durability is a problem for the aly straight edge, it is a precision tool and you treat it with care. Do you buy a HSS chisel over carbon steel because it can survive a drop on a concrete floor?
The other argument I see against aly is that you can't run a knife along the edge, this is false. If the edge of your knife was really in contact with your steel straight edge then it would dull very quickly. My aly straight edge is anodized so it has a hard external layer that protects it from scratches. In hand, the steel straight edge feels more accurate, probably because it is much heavier, I'd say it's more suitable for machinists who need the highest precision. It also wants to rust whenever you touch it so I have to keep it oiled and away from wood dust.

The Al straigtedges aren't spec'ed as tightly as good steel ones. For example my 50" Al straightedge is spec'ed to +/-0.003" flatness over its length. My 48" Steel Starrett is spec'ed to +/-0.0002" per foot, or +/-0.0008" over the length. The Al one is also much less stiff, such that you have to think about orientation and support before relying on its straightness.

Of course both the Al straightedge and the Starrett are ridiculous overkill for woodworking.

[george wilson]

Good point about hot squares,Jeff. I did help build 2 houses in Alaska,and a garage in Va. after we moved here in 1957. But,it has been many years since I have built any houses. So,this is a good tip to know!

[Roger Nair]

I preferred steel squares and did not find that hot squares a problem, mostly because I learned what to do with a square when not in use. Place it so it can not be trampled and not perpendicular to the sun and convenient to being picked up. It becomes second nature, an automatic condition, it's just adaptation to daily rigors.

Squares wear from striking lines, all squares. It takes a while for wear to become noticeable. A square in a production setting will have hundreds of swipes daily, the absolutely miniscule mounts up. At some point, the wear becomes apparent and the tool needs replacement or one could adapt and mark and measure on the inside edges. Anyhow, a $300 framing square would not last longer or hold precision any better any of the other options. I would choose the $76 Shinwa, it has all the traditional scales 1/16, 1/12 and 1/10.

[lowell holmes]

I was a process plant piping designer for many years.
We carried framing squares when going into a facility to check or design piping drawings.
You're not likely to need this, but if you hold a square on a pipe to check it's diameter, a line will touch the o.d. of the pipe.
That defines the center of the pipe. and while your at it, you can read the radius of the pipe.
An old pipe fitter taught me that. I was too dumb to figure it out myself.:)

[george wilson]

I have an old book over 1/2" thick,with all the kinds of things you can do or calculate with a framing square. It has a huge number of uses.

[bridger berdel]

I have found my ordinary quality framing square quite accurate when I compare it to my $2500.00 24" Starrett machinist's square,even though it is one of those chomped out rather than the good,old quality ones with ground edges. It is only a framing square,after all. Not really intended for accurate cabinet making.

I have a few framing squares. the best of them is a heavy tapered stanley r100. the edges are milled. it was originally nickle plated, much of which still exists. it is covered in tables of things that don't mean much to me. it has always come out on top in any test of accuracy I have thrown at it- but I don't have a 24" starrett to offer it up to.




I would rather have a steel one than an aluminum one. Pretty anodizing or not! And,plastic stuff is right out of consideration. As said,they can be adjusted with a punch if not perfectly true.

I'm with you on the lack of enthusiasm for aluminum precision tooling. I mean, come on.

I do have an aluminum framing square that I keep as a jobsite tool and a general knockabout square for checking carcases during assembly and the like. it's lightweight, won't rust, and if it disappears on a jobsite somewhere I won't have trouble replacing it. I bought it new as a beginning carpenter. it took quite a few punch marks to get it to be anything like accurate, and I don't rely on it
for anything important.

interestingly, I have a stanley ar100. it has the same tables, the same taper and the same milled edges as the r100, but it is made of aluminum. it also tests out as accurate, but I don't use it much.

[Roger Nair]

Speaking of rafter tables, bd/ft table, octagon scales, et. al., I have found that a sci. calculator with trig and root functions far faster and easier than referring to tables. However the tables and the other little used vestigial scales 1/100, 1/12, 1/10 are handy for working out building problems on site and on the fly also as an education resource on the hows and whys presented to helpers on topics of older construction.