Tables for brewery

[Ryan Lee]

I'm building some tables for a brewery. The are a mix of a simple pine top with a welded base. The goal is to have a table that is 24' long using 4 6' tables. I'm at odds if I want to include some type of clamp to join the tables and if I want to use a dowel to align them when they are together. My thought is that if I do a clamp it will hold them together nicely, but what about when they aren't together? Won' the clamp just dangle?

The tables are 6' x 3'.

This is the clamp I had in mind: http://www.mcmaster.com/#draw-latches/=14ab9yg

The link isn't working correctly. It is a pull action toggle clamp.

What would you use? Dowels? Clamps? Other options?

[Ryan Lee]

This was the prototype
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[Jamie Buxton]

I think that the brewery staff is not going to fuss around with clamps to hold the tables together. They'll just slam the tables around -- sometimes as singles, and sometimes in multiples. Unless they swear up and down that they need the clamps, I'd leave them off.

[Ryan Lee]

Another sample of the top
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[Ryan Lee]

Inspired from this:
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[Andrew Hughes]

Ryan I don't know if you should use clamps or not.You could always add them later.
Hopefully they don't get a lot of beer drinking Ruffins pushing the tables around and punching each other in the face.
I do have a question for you is your table edge wrapped with a solid piece or wood around the edge of a solid wood top?

Aj

[Mark Gibney]

This might be the same question as AJ posted - is the top solid wood with a solid wood edge on all four sides? If so, won't expansion / contraction be a problem with the band across the end, perpendicular to the grain of the table?

[Minh Tran]

What about using hooks on the underside of the at table? You secure one table to the other by lifting the table with the receded hook over the table with the protruding hook.
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That's for a flush underside. You can try making the connection external, like a ball-hitch connection.

[Wayne Lomman]

Ryan, I would not bother with clamps unless specified in the contract. The table looks as solid as a brick dunny and I don't think they will wander around. There is also the consideration that if the floor/paving is not perfectly level, they may not line up anyway.

I am concerned about the band across the end grain especially since it is pine. The expansion and contraction will be substantial. Can you delete the end band? Cheers

[Ryan Lee]

Yes guys it is a band around the edge. I had just used glue, biscuits and pocket screws to attach the band around the outside. Is that not the same effect as a breadboard end? It did a good job of leveling out the table. Am I going to have problems? This is for a couple of good friends and I want to make a quality product. I also have to build 5 more of them 8' long with benches.

[Frederick Skelly]

Ryan,
If I understand you correctly, you dont have the equivalent of breadboard ends. It sounds like your facia board is fixed in place along the width of the top, screwed into the end grain. That will keep the top from expanding and contracting along its full width. (Because it cant move due to the screws and biscuits.)

Please dont get me wrong - the top looks very nice. Im just concerned that its going to crack/split oover time.

I address this by only fastening the top at 2 points and letting the screws ride in slots in the facia board. There are other, fancier, ways too.

Fred

[Mark Gibney]

You edging is mitered, breadboard ends are not. This allows the table to expand / contract freely as the breadboard end is attached with oversized screw holes. The breadboard end is usually tongue and grooved to the table as well.

I don't know if you'll have a problem, but I wouldn't have done it as you have.

The tables do look great though!

[Prashun Patel]

If your tables will be outside, I suspect you will see some cracking around the miter.

Personally, I would not use even breadboards on these. If they ever get stood on, or lifted frequently by the bb-ends, you can have trouble. Shoot, I made a coffee table in my house with a bb-end that my 10-year old has made wobbly after 2 years. The job of the bb-end is to keep the table flat, at the expense of a solid connection to the end. I would instead add battens to the underside (loosely joined) if you are concerned with flatness. This table lacks an apron, so battens might be a good idea anyway.

I would not connect the ends of the tables to each other either.

[Ryan Lee]

Thanks for all the input.

I guess it isn't really a breadboard as much as I wrapped the table in a 2x1.125 skirt. This was just to give the tables a more finished look.

I could add some angle iron under to keep it flat.
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[Malcolm McLeod]

Most of my family and friends that have 'expanding' tables (with leaves) have a means to lock the table halves together, and/or the leaves, if installed. The most common method of locking them has been: http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/159296/Table-Alignment-Lock.aspx?gclid=CM2p4P7hpc8CFYOEaQodJtwK1A or very similar. (These are not drop-leaf tables, but 'insert' leaves.)

This lock has the benefit of no protrusions to snag clothes, legs, and straps of people walking by when your tables are not joined. I would think anything left protruding from the end of the table won't last 20 minutes in actual use...?

(Sounds like others have you on right breadboard/batten track.)

[rudy de haas]

Those are cool tables - but is pine a mandatory choice? It will take a lot of surface finish (maybe use the polyurethane floor stuff?) to make something the staff can keep clean. As a complete contrast in everything from cost to color, mid-moisture jatoba provides a very fine, very hard, finish that won't be affected by beer spillage and won't warp much even if the beer tent leaks.

The problem with any kind of clamps other than plug in dowels is that something juts out - and staff will break them while customers will snag themselves on them. Drilling holes (and maybe lining them with metal) is attractive because the staff can put the dowels in only when needed, but (a) they will lose some of them; and (b) there is little lateral strength so when idiots dance on the tables while others push and cheer, something will break or crack.

I've never seen tables done this way, but you might be able to finesse most of the strength and safety concerns by making 2" or wider "finger" joints on each table. Make them about 1" deep and lateral forces will cause the tables to separate but won't break anything; an uneven floor will produce only minor irregularities in the long table, nobody is going to get hurt on the ends of the fingers; and most of the warpage problem goes away too. (and, in ten years, you can trim off the damaged ends and cut new fingers).

[Mark Bolton]

There are latches specifically for that purpose, http://www.richelieu.com/us/en/category/furniture-equipment/table-hardware/desk-top-connector/1015446/sku-56360090 but I agree they may likely never get used and unless the floor is very flat aligning them and latching them may prove to be more fiddly than its worth. If your not getting paid for it it wouldnt be worth bothering with.

[Ryan Lee]

I got all nine tables and 10 benches built...That was a big project and they look great! Thanks for all the input.

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[Matt Day]

Did you still wraps edges and miter the corners?

[Ryan Lee]

I did. I put a piece of angle on the bottoms to help keep them flat. These will be in a climate controlled area so hopefully wood movement will be kept to a minimum.

[Matt Day]

You had some good advice in this thread. I hope they stay flat and don't crack.

A table that wide will move regardless of its inside or not. And if you attached the angle iron across the width of the top, you've pinned it in place and it will crack.