Raised panels with a Festool OF 1400-EQ router

[Mike Holbrook]

I have the router mentioned above. I need to make raised panels for storm shutters. I also have the Festool track saw, jig saw and older MFT table. I am more of a hand tool guy but I want to get these shutters made as quick as possible. I have eight 8 glued up panels (24 1/2" x 10 1/4" x 7/8" thick). The raised area will be about 1 1/4" wide, leaving a 3/16-1/4" deep x 1/4+" rabbet or tongue & groove on the edge.

I am wondering if the 1400 router will handle bits of the size necessary to make these panels? There is quite a selection of bits for this work. I am wondering which might work on the MFT table and fence without risking damage to the router or my tender body?

[mark mcfarlane]

The 1400 has enough power to spin a small panel raising bit and according to Festool's specs it works with bits up to 2.4" in diameter, just take several light passes. I've never tried this with a handheld router, only in a table mounted one.

You could make a simple disposable table surface for this process. Flat piece of plywood, cut a hole that fits the bit, clamp the plywood to a workbench, mount the router underneath with countersunk bolts, use a straight board clamped to the plywood as a fence, with a cutout for your profile. This assumes the router base has mounting holes, mine is 8000 miles away so I can't check.

[Mike Holbrook]

I actually have an old Freud router table, one of the original router table kits I imagine. I have an old Makita router in it. I'm not sure how it handled the large oak falling on the building that housed it. The insurance company repair crew threw many of my work tools in a small bath room while they were doing repairs. There wasn't enough room left to change your mind in that room. The pieces are just starting to emerge again which is why I was thinking about the Festool solution.

[John Lankers]

I personally would use a panel raiser only in a table.
If you're using a softer hardwood like poplar or a softwood, reduce the speed to 12,000 RPM or so (should say in the instructions for the bit), take light passes and listen to the router motor. I don't know if it will work on hard maple or oak - you'll have to try.
Another option for a smaller router motor is a vertical panel raiser but the surface might end up a bit rougher.

[scott vroom]

I personally would use a panel raiser only in a table.


Ditto. Raised panel bits are frightening enough on a table, I'd never consider running one in a hand held router. If that big cutter grabs the wood there's no way you'll be able to control it. If you decide to do it, I recommend a pair of chain saw chaps to prevent the cutter from severing your femoral artery when it flies off the piece into your leg.

[Andy Giddings]

I agree with the other posters, Mike. I have seen Youtube videos of hand held panel raising with a router but I wouldn't do it due to the safety and control issues mentioned. Mark's idea of a simple table will allow you to overcome these and get a good result. Even if you choose to take the safety risk, I think the finish will look rough due to the lack of control

[Michelle Rich]

Ditto. Raised panel bits are frightening enough on a table, I'd never consider running one in a hand held router. If that big cutter grabs the wood there's no way you'll be able to control it. If you decide to do it, I recommend a pair of chain saw chaps to prevent the cutter from severing your femoral artery when it flies off the piece into your leg.

Thanks for the laugh this morning..I needed a boost :-)

[Peter Kelly]

https://youtu.be/u0kgmMCQJu8

Forward to 6:15

[pat warner]

Cutters that size (>2.5"D) are unsafe at any speed, (my take).
Raised panels, doors and drawers should be considered shaper tasks.
But the 1400 could stand a few raised panels if the the thing was in a router table with a fence of some sort.
The risk with small routers, doing heavy duty, is that the work can change shape if there is a lot material waste.
And if the panels were not flat and straight to begin with, there can be surprises.
There might be instantaneous high cutter loads from the work being misshapen.
And small routers can't stand much of that. They burn out.
Furthermore, 5+ passes (where a bigger router might take 3) will wear out a cutter prematurely.

[Mike Holbrook]

I typically use hand tools over machines precisely due to the risk to life and limb with the machines. I like the Festool tools because I find them to be the safest of the motor operated tools. I was hoping the Festool: table, guide rail and router housing might make them more safe than a router table not less safe. The guy who started me in woodworking is missing part of a finger, which he lost to a router table. The wood is glued up panels of 4/4 stock, Lowe's SYP, trim boards planed to 7/8" by hand.

I may now be convinced to keep doing the job with hand tools.

[Jim Becker]

Mike, it will spin a larger bit, but I'd avoid the largest kind. Do remember that this is NOT a hand-held job...it must be in a table to do the work safely. Multiple passes will be the best solution to mitigate slightly less power than from a typical 15 amp router as well as for cut quality.

[Mike Holbrook]

Hi Jim,

Maybe I am missing something here. I know what a router table is, I have an old one. On the other hand Festool tools are typically built to work on a table too, an MFT table. I know the difference in the two tables too as I have used both. I am just not clear on whether there is some inherent advantage mounting the router in a plate that hangs in a groove in a "router table" vs using the router in a somewhat similar jig attached to a guide rail via steel rods, run across an MFT table top?

It may be that the router is better secured in the plate hung in the table top, but I think a decent case could be made for the other side as well. I could see one of those large router bits getting loose and coming through the plate in the table top, or the hole the bit fits into in a router table. I am not sure a large router bit isn't more secure in the guide rail system. The bit would have to get through the router or through a 3/4" MFT table top to get free.

It seems to me that the more likely issue would be the piece of wood being run across the router table getting pulled or thrown, like can happen with table saws that pinch a piece of wood against the fence. Pulled or thrown wood can cause injury or the operator's hand can get pulled or thrown into the blade. It seems to me that the wood being worked can be secured quite securely to a Festool table, using Festool clamps, then sandwiched between the table and the router. It seems to me I would be able to feel how well the bit is working while pressing down on it with the router vs trying to slowly crank up the bit in a table with no feel for how hard the bit is working.

However, never having tried using a Festool guide rail and MFT with that large a bit I could be wrong. I was hoping someone here might have actually tried using a Festool router this way and have experience to relate.

[Victor Robinson]

Hi Jim,

Maybe I am missing something here. I know what a router table is, I have an old one. On the other hand Festool tools are typically built to work on a table too, an MFT table. I know the difference in the two tables too as I have used both. I am just not clear on whether there is some inherent advantage mounting the router in a plate that hangs in a groove in a "router table" vs using the router in a somewhat similar jig attached to a guide rail via steel rods, run across an MFT table top?

It may be that the router is better secured in the plate hung in the table top, but I think a decent case could be made for the other side as well. I could see one of those large router bits getting loose and coming through the plate in the table top, or the hole the bit fits into in a router table. I am not sure a large router bit isn't more secure in the guide rail system. The bit would have to get through the router or through a 3/4" MFT table top to get free.

It seems to me that the more likely issue would be the piece of wood being run across the router table getting pulled or thrown, like can happen with table saws that pinch a piece of wood against the fence. Pulled or thrown wood can cause injury or the operator's hand can get pulled or thrown into the blade. It seems to me that the wood being worked can be secured quite securely to a Festool table, using Festool clamps, then sandwiched between the table and the router. It seems to me I would be able to feel how well the bit is working while pressing down on it with the router vs trying to slowly crank up the bit in a table with no feel for how hard the bit is working.

However, never having tried using a Festool guide rail and MFT with that large a bit I could be wrong. I was hoping someone here might have actually tried using a Festool router this way and have experience to relate.

Mike, your thinking is mostly on-point - on a table, the workpiece jumps. Handheld - or track-guided, the router will jump assuming the workpiece is completely and totally secured. From experience, a jumping handheld router can do a lot of damage quickly, and workpieces that seem like they were secured suddenly aren't so secure.

Now that all being said, the OF1400 is essentially a 2.25ish hp router. Spinning panel raisers in medium powered routers, whether table or freehand, is on the border of iffy. On a table, you need several passes to overcome the [lack of] power. Freehand, the router just doesn't have the weight and stability to overcome say, a nasty change in grain direction that causes a catch. Yes, the track would help keep things stable, and maybe best case you end up with a chunk taken out of your workpiece. Worst case, out of your femoral artery...

The router that is more frequently used in the manner you are suggesting is the OF2200. That router has the weight and power to make attempting something like this a little more sane. You can look up Brice Burrell on youtube - I think he has a video of using a 2200 to make cabinet doors entirely handheld, including the panel raising. I'm guessing you don't have a huge need to spend $900 on a "handheld shaper."

EDIT: Here's the video I mentioned. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw4LoecxxmQ

[Jim Becker]

How you mount to the table isn't important...whatever works for you is fine. I was just emphasizing that for swinging these larger cutters, you need that beast in a table for safety. You likely know that already, but a newbee reading this may not. While I personally wouldn't prefer to put the OF1400 in a table (it's optimized for hand-held use) there's nothing that precludes it. My table has the commonly used PC7518 dedicated for that purpose and my OF1400 and OF1010 (and DW618) get used for all the other things that routers are great for.

[Mike Holbrook]

Got it, chances are a large panel raising bit may cause a medium sized router like the 1400 to jump "off track", either tearing up the arms and guide rail or worse hitting wonky grain and finding some new path on it's own. A heavier/more powerful router would be less likely to "jump" off course. That I can understand.

Now I have to figure whether it is worth the price of a heavier router to place in a table, maybe the one I have or one I make. The concern is more that the router will take off on some errant course and less that the bit would tear through the mounting plate or toss the wood.

[Andy Giddings]

Its also an issue of how the work is fed, I think, Mike. In a router table set up, to ensure stability and safety, you can use hold downs and feather boards to keep the work flat to the table and against the fence/cutter. Reverse operation with the router above the work is not so easy to control the stability of the work. The main issue with the 1400 is the size of the bit for panel raising vs the power output. As others have said, you could use a PC 7518 to get over this in a table and not have to go to the expense of the largest Festool router

[Mike Cutler]

Mike

I own the Festool OF1400, as well as the OF2200. I have a 3HP shaper table and a big Porter Cable built into to a bench.
If you were going to attempt to use an OF1400, or OF2200 to make these cuts they would need to be done freehand. Locking the material between the cutterhead and the track may prove disastrous if something catches. In the video you can see that the OF2200 is free to move away from the material.
Doing multiple passes at different cutting depths is problematic. All of the material has to be sequentially cut to ensure uniformity of the final profile depth. This is actually a little more difficult, and time consuming, than it sounds. Even when the router is mounted in a table it's not easy. Doable, but you definitely have to keep track of where you are at with each piece of material. You also need to make extra material at the same time, because trying to replicate an additional piece after everything is done is "trying".
The T&G's you want to cut can easily be done with your router, and on a limited basis so can that 1-1/4" edge profile cutter. To make it "safer" you're going to need to do multiple passes at differing depths of cut and the final cut may need to finished off with a climb cut to make a nice smooth profile.
I'm pretty comfortable with routers and have use them "freehand" on a continuous basis, and while the OF2200 is a more than capable router of cutting that 1-1/4" profile you need freehand, I'd still want the cutter head in a table.
If you're going to do it freehand, which I don't recommend, think the cuts through and make sure that you provide yourself with some form of additional protection in the event of a catch. Definitely do not lock the power switch in the "ON" position on the router. You really want that router to turn off and brake if needed.I have a foot operated AC switch for using router freehand. It's kind of a natural reaction to grip the router tighter, including the trigger, when it catches. Backing off the foot switch kills the power instantly.
Still though, I can't support advising using a cutter head with that much mass, in a free hand situation, unless you had no other way. Even in the video that is being linked you can see how slow he has to go to make the cuts. In a table you'd be done in much, much, less time.

[Jim Dwight]

I don't know exactly what the current draw is for this router but if it is at least 10 or 11 amps I believe it is very capable of this, it will just take 3 or 4 passes to complete the panel. My router table has an old Ryobi that draws 13.3 amps and I do raised panels bigger than this whenever I need them. I've done them in oak - a whole kitchen worth. I've also done them with my PC690s which may be a little smaller than this Festool. But I've never done them freehand. I doubt I ever will. Go slow. Pine cuts pretty easy but it also splits pretty easy.

A flat piece of plywood with a hole in the center and holes to mount the router is nearly all you need for a router table. A straight piece of 2x for the fence and a couple C clamps to hold it in place and some legs for the top will complete a serviceable router table. I had one like this and it worked. I would look for a sink cutout - they are high density particle board covered with laminate. That is what my main router table uses. If you can find it, it should be cheap or free.

I have two router table setups now, my main table with a screw adjustable lift and a simple setup in the extension wing of my table saw. The latter is rarely used but has done raised panel doors before I built the other one. It uses my PC690s.

There are two ways to limit the amount of material removed when you are using a router table. You can either reduce the depth of cut or you can use the fence to reduce the profile of the bit. I've done it both ways. Now that I have the screw adjustable table, I usually just set the fence and gradually raise the bit. I guess you can do this hand-held but you need a good way to increment the height. One revolution of the screw on my table is 1/16 inch. That might be too big a pass when you use the whole profile of the bit. You may need to make 1/32 passes. Adjusting that fine hand-held may or may not be reasonably feasible, I have no experience with this router. But I am sure it is easier on a table. It's pretty easy to measure the height above the table top - much easier than measuring against the much smaller router base.

Big routers just mean fewer passes. Smaller routers will work if you don't try to go too fast. I know they do, I've done it many times. My routers are all 10 years or more old. So it doesn't burn them out - as long as you go slow and don't force the work.

[Jim Becker]

A router mounted in a table shouldn't move at all when cutting, regardless of what router it is. If you want to mount your OF1400 under a table for this job, there's no problem with that and you can remove it for hand-held use. At some point, you'll likely prefer a dedicated router for the table, however...nature of the beast.

[Mike Holbrook]

I do have an old router table, made from a kit Highland Woodworking use to sell, some 20 years ago. It has a decent fence and insert that fits into the table top. Nothing fancy but serviceable. One option would be to mount the OF 1400 in that table. I probably will not do that as I think the OF 1400 is built to work the other way and do not want to take the chance of damaging the tool.

I did a good deal of research on a new better router table and heavier duty router a couple years ago and decided not to spend the money. As I have said I prefer using hand tools to using machines. I am admittedly a little afraid of the machines. I do not use my table saw much because it tends to fill the air with massive quantities of smoke and dust. I think a larger router in a table would be a similar issue. If I was going to go the better router table and larger router route I would want a high quality air cleaning system, which I am not excited about in terms of: cost , time to install it, space it would take up...I like the Festool system specifically because the Festool vacums do such a good job of removing the dust before it gets into the air.

I have worked a panel or two by hand. Yes it goes slow, but it does go faster with experience. I have had some serious issues with allergic reactions on my hands, which apparently were diet related. I lost large amounts of the skin on my hands many times so I was sort of looking for an interim solution until I can reestablish calluses and tougher skin on my hands.

Now I am thinking this project may provide a way to build up my hands again and help me to develop the skill set to be able to do such projects more quickly in the future using hand tools. Maybe I just need to continue to do the work with the tools I have. Certainly some sort of molding plane would be less expensive than the investment in: new router table, new router, air filtration system...Then maybe I can get my bandsaw fixed or replaced, which would provide what I think may be a better power tool for me.