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Curtis Niedermier
09-22-2016, 2:39 PM
So I have this little hewing hatchet, and it needs a new handle. I figured I'd make one instead of buying one, and since I have a hickory in my yard that's about to come down and I'm planning to rive some leg blanks for a few small stools from the log, I figured I'd go ahead and keep a piece for the hatchet handle.

So I have three questions about this:

1. Which way should the growth rings be oriented? If you're looking at the top of the handle, where it comes through the eye of the bit, should the rings run from the cutting edge to the heel/back, or should they run from side to side the "short" way?

2. If I make it from green wood, can I go ahead and seat the bit, or do I need to let it dry first? I watched a cool video of a fella making an axe handle, and he went straight from shavehorse to install. Will it shrink enough to cause a problem as it dries?

3. Let's say I want to shape a curve in the handle. Are most hatchet or axe handles that are curved made that way by steaming and bending? Or can you just shape it and not worry about the runout? I assume with a hatchet with a 16-inch-long or shorter handle (not sure how long I'll make it yet), the issue of a little runout isn't too big a deal since it's so short and there won't be a great deal of curve anyway. But in a longer axe handle I'm not sure, and I'm curious.

Thoughts?

Robert Hazelwood
09-22-2016, 3:07 PM
1. Usually the rings go from cutting edge to heel.

2. In my experience shrinking can be a problem, even if you let the blank dry for a while. For my last axe, I shaped the handle and got the head 80% fitted, then stuck the head-end of the handle between the fins of an electric radiator heater for a day or two to gently dry it out and let it shrink as much as it ever will, so that it can only expand in use. The rigged the handle up so it didn't touch metal and scorch. After drying, I immediately completed the fitting and installed the head and wedge.

This is basically what Windsor chairmakers do with leg tenons in my understanding. It worked well for my axe.

3. I don't think steam bending is typical; it is carved to shape. Ideally you can select a blank with a curve that matches your design, but I think you are basically correct about a short handle on a smaller head being able to tolerate a little run out, especially if it occurs towards the back end of the handle. Breakage usually occurs near the head in my experience. Hickory is pretty resilient.

george wilson
09-22-2016, 6:01 PM
The most important thing in making a hatchet handle is to NOT accidentally mount the hatchet head on the wrong end. This causes bruising of the user's fingers,and possible lessening of the cutting ability of the hatchet in general. An often unconsidered aspect of having the hatchet head on the wrong end of the handle is the emotional aspect: The mounting frustration of the user may result in a total disconnect with reality,and sometimes triggers attempts to use the hatchet as a spoon. This bizarre condition is not yet understood by the scientific community. Some major scientists have labeled the unusual behavioral pattern as an attempt by the user to return to childhood since he has become unable to cope with the frustration encountered.

Stew Denton
09-22-2016, 8:29 PM
George,

Your comments are much appreciated, and may explain frustrations I have encountered over the years. As a young fellow I replaced the handle on my boy size hatchet. My woodworking skills were none too good at that point, and I may have accidentally installed the head on the wrong end. I believe that now, many years experience trouble shooting industrial problems gives me tools to evaluate this situation. If I have indeed mounted the head on the wrong end I can correct the problem and thus solve many serious emotional frustrations.

I am thinking that I can pull up some photos on the net, and compare my hatchet to the photos. I am hoping to find a photo that has one end of the hatchet as being labeled "up" so that I can hold the hatchet the correct way for the comparison, as friends have said to me that I don't know which end is up. Knowing which end is up strikes me as being important in a case like this one.

I can say, though, that many years experience with the hatchet has shown me one very important factor. It cuts much better if you point a particular end of the head toward what you are trying to cut. People may not have noticed, but I have found that most hatchets have an end that is somewhat flat with the other end terminating in what looks kind of like a knife edge. It has been my experience that the knife edge seems to cut better than the flat end. I am now to the point that I remember that much of the time when I use the hatchet. I hope my experience with this observation will help some of the more junior members of this site.

Stew

steven c newman
09-22-2016, 9:21 PM
344668
Might find something in here?

Will try to dig up a photo of a Official Scout Camp Axe that is sitting in the tool tote. Made by Plumb, and has the BSA logo . Uses a screw to tighten the wedge.
344669
Handle shot...
344670
It does indeed have a brass woodscrew to tighten the wedge with. Flatbladed screwdriver was needed.

Stew Denton
09-22-2016, 9:55 PM
Steven,

Thanks! I could make the comparison directly to your hatchet. I am EXTREMELY relieved, because my handle fits my hatchet in the same way your appears to fit the head. I was able to figure this out with only about 10 minutes of comparison time!

The bad news is that now there is no easy fix for the emotional issues. Maybe it's possible, however, that even accidentally considering installing the hatchet head on the wrong end, in my youthful inexperience, could have caused some less severe otional scarring. Even so, in my current mental and emotional state I have never tried to use my hatchet for a spoon, but my psychological problems have been more like trying to use a pocket knife blade for a screwdriver.

I think I will sleep well tonight. It is good to work though these problems and issues that could cause deep seated emotional problems, and I feel better. These problems could leave a person extremely scarred for a lifetime, and in addition cause a more serious problem....blisters.

Stew

John K Jordan
09-22-2016, 10:20 PM
1. Which way should the growth rings be oriented?...
2. ... green wood...
3. ...shape a curve...


Curtis,

A blacksmith who makes reproductions of Viking axes told me the handle was strongest if orientated so the rings are long ways in the head, from cutting edge to heal. He likes to use ash.

The old time farmers way to make handles was with riven hickory segments to guarantee the strongest grain alignment. Put the blanks in the barn loft to dry and in three years you are ready to go. I did this a long time ago and now have a bunch of dry handle blanks.

I personally would hesitate to make one from green wood because of the shrinkage. If in a hurry, the microwave drying method could work if the hatchet handle is short enough. However, the power distribution inside a microwave is NOT uniform but has hot spots (the reason for the rotating platter) so just because the wood might fit diagonally it might not work well since the stationary wood would likely be heated unevenly.

When I made an adz handle I used a split blank, bandsawed the general outline, then shaped with a drawknife and spokeshave. I picked a piece of wood that after splitting had a bit of natural curve to closer match to the shape I wanted. I have no idea about steam bending - does heating reduce the strength? But I wouldn't worry about the absolute strength of a short handle as much as I would a long handle on something with high impact, like a big sledge.

I have also turned an axe handle on the lathe, using an off-axis method to get the general cross-section shape then did the final shaping with a very aggressive drum sander. I made a froe handle the same way. Shovel and hoe handles I just turn round. (all these from dry wood) The hand tool method was a lot more relaxing and healthier than the power sanding method.

BTW, I've heard for years that you should use the hickory sapwood for handles, not heartwood. However, more recent reading indicates this may well be a myth.

You ever get down to TN? I'm north of Knoxville and I'm pretty sure I've got some dry hickory that will work for your handle.

JKJ

Stew Denton
09-22-2016, 10:29 PM
Hi John,

In addition to the factors you mentioned, I believe running the growth rings "front to back" rather than from "side to side" makes the handle more impact resistant should, perish the thought, you accidentally hit an object with the handle just below the head, rather than with the head itself. A lot of hammer handles and sledge hammer handles have been broken that way.

Stew

george wilson
09-23-2016, 9:06 AM
It is correct that the growth rings should be vertical in the handle,and not side to side. Though I made some very small hammer handles of ash with the rings going across. They are very tight ,small rings,and I wanted them seen. In chasing hammers,or very small ball peins, it should not matter. And the wood is old and bone dry. And,actually, in a chasing hammer handle, where the cross section of the handle is quite small, the handle is stronger with the rings going sideways.

About trying to use a microwave: Years ago when the "Great Oak" tree that David Rockefeller swung on in Williamsburg fell, The wood was,of course,all green. I was asked to make him a present from the oak wood. Knowing the wood would shrink, warp and crack, I puzzled about what I could make him. I settled upon a fountain pen, as much as I hate all those pages of pen making stuff in catalogs.

The big problem was how to get the wood dry in the as usual short delivery time that was expected for this gift. I sawed up some little billets about 9/16" square and 6" long, and began trying to microwave dry them. At first I got pieces burned to charcoal in their hearts. Then,I began to experiment with short bursts of microwave, opening the door, and checking how hot the wood was getting. By thus being very careful of the heating times, I was able to produce some bone dry billets. Remarkable how much they could shrink when suddenly dried!

I turned the dry billet, finished it and put it in a nice little rosewood box that I didn't make (there wasn't enough time!) The gift was a big success. I have a letter from Mr. Rockefeller. The pen was a reminder of his beloved tree that he could keep in his pocket and use every day. What else can you make for a millionaire anyway? :)

After this microwave experiment, I would NOT ADVISE you to attempt drying the hatchet handle in this way. It is just too large, and probably too long to fit into the microwave's rotating platter anyway. And, if it can't rotate, you are in big trouble as the oven does not heat evenly, and will pick out a spot and burn it black. Likely it will catch fire too.

Since Winter is coming, you could try splitting out SEVERAL handle blanks (and,make them WELL OVERSIZE!!!!!). Wrap them in aluminum foil and bury them in a metal 5 gallon pail of sand. Put this pail of sand up against your wood stove for the winter. Wrapping them is very important: It keeps them from drying too rapidly and splitting to pieces.

I am not certain that this will work without splitting your wood, but it is the best LOW TECH way to deal with the problem that I can think of. DO YOU have a lumber yard with a kiln nearby? You could ask them to include your handles when they are drying a load of HARD WOOD. Kilns are heated differently for different types of wood.

Failing all these measures, a year of NATURAL,AIR drying would likely be good enough,and really the BEST way to dry your handles. I'd leave the handles in an outdoor shed for 6 months,then bring them indoors for 6 months. Too rapid a drying time would cause a lot of splitting. Don't forget to paint the ends heavily,or coat the ends with lots of glue.Several coats. Beeswax works well also,and is gooey enough to move as the wood changes dimension. But,don't use it if you try drying near the wood stove.

Actually,right now I am letting several 3" to 4" diameter dogwood branches dry in my shop. They had been under my back steps,out of the rain for about a year. I have a customer who likes 18th. C. thread spools made from dogwood. Every time she buys another small tape loom, she wants a bunch of spools as they are always missing.

Stew, I am very pleased that you found my post useful and enlightening. It was,after all, written for literati such as yourself, and for those who still may suffer from a mis spent infancy of sucking on a hatchet handle,and the attendant dangers therein. Deformed mouths have resulted from the most severe cases of handle sucking. I work very hard and have have asked Hillary set up a trust fund to help the victims of oral deformity. No word back as of yet. I have thought of sending money, as that would provoke a rapid affirmative, I am sure.Mr. Trump has responded however, with a strong message that he will make deformed mouths great again. I am indeed chuffed.

Prashun Patel
09-23-2016, 9:28 AM
Make two if you just can't wait. Make a green one and mount it immediately. If it fails, you can use the second, which you can roughly shape, then wax the ends, and let it dry.

To the other guys, is rift-sawn stock fine to use in hammers and hatchets?

george wilson
09-23-2016, 9:39 AM
Indeed,commercial handles seem to always be made of rift sawn wood. But,this is not the correct way to orient the grain. But,if the wood is good and dry,not a big problem.

You are guaranteed failure if you make a green wood handle. Rough shaping is good, as it reduces the thickness of the wood that must be dried. But, do make sure to leave plenty of extra thickness. As I mentioned, it is quite surprising how much wood shrinks by the time it is dry. It is a vegetable,after all. Or,more likely classed as a weed.

lowell holmes
09-23-2016, 9:57 AM
I always liked the feel of a hatchet handle in my hand. It seemed like the balance was just right.

Stewie Simpson
09-23-2016, 10:02 AM
This post reminds me I have an early made Robert Sorby No.2 Shingling Hatchet that I need to make up a new handle for.

This type of Shingling Hatchet was listed in the Robert Sorby & Sons, 1907 Tool Catalogue.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/Sorby%20shingling%20hatchet/_DSC0046_zpsgh5jcz73.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/Sorby%20shingling%20hatchet/_DSC0046_zpsgh5jcz73.jpg.html)

lowell holmes
09-25-2016, 10:33 PM
You can buy hatchet handles on Amazon for less than $10 plus shipping.

Tom Stenzel
09-25-2016, 11:47 PM
George,

(in part)
I can say, though, that many years experience with the hatchet has shown me one very important factor. It cuts much better if you point a particular end of the head toward what you are trying to cut. People may not have noticed, but I have found that most hatchets have an end that is somewhat flat with the other end terminating in what looks kind of like a knife edge. It has been my experience that the knife edge seems to cut better than the flat end. I am now to the point that I remember that much of the time when I use the hatchet. I hope my experience with this observation will help some of the more junior members of this site.

Stew

One day I was working away in the kitchen when SHMBO came in. She told me - and I am not making this up - that kitchen knives are made in the the EXACT SAME MANNER. Imagine my surprise! You could have knocked me over with a soft Arkansas stone. Afterwards the food wasn't anymore edible than previous. But the work was much easier.

Then again, detecting the difference in the sharp side and the not sharp side on my kitchen knives is somewhat dubious at my house.

-Tom

John K Jordan
09-26-2016, 7:04 AM
Then again, detecting the difference in the sharp side and the not sharp side on my kitchen knives is somewhat dubious at my house.

I'm told this makes a difference with chain saws too.

I once visited a neighbor on my way to trim a tree, chainsaw in the back of the truck. He looked at the saw and ask me how it cut. I had put the chain on backwards after sharpening.

JKJ

george wilson
09-26-2016, 9:25 AM
I was walking around in the museum one day and went into one of the operating 18th. C. kitchens. The interpreter was talking while using a butcher knife's BACK side to peel a potato. Not paying attention to what she was doing. I got all but one of her knives and took them to my shop where I sharpened all of them. They were horribly dull! Then,I returned them,hoping that the FEEL of a sharp edge cutting a potato skin would tell her if she was using the cutting edge rather than the back,even while talking to the public!!

Curtis Niedermier
09-27-2016, 9:45 AM
What would be the fun of that? Just kidding. I sawed up a hickory for firewood on Sunday and I'm hankering to split up a couple of pieces and make something out of green wood. I'm going to rough in two handles, because I assume I'll screw one up, and then let them dry until I finish the other 33 projects I'm working on right now. Then once they're dry I'll do final shaping.

Pat Barry
09-27-2016, 2:10 PM
I was walking around in the museum one day and went into one of the operating 18th. C. kitchens. The interpreter was talking while using a butcher knife's BACK side to peel a potato. Not paying attention to what she was doing. I got all but one of her knives and took them to my shop where I sharpened all of them. They were horribly dull! Then,I returned them,hoping that the FEEL of a sharp edge cutting a potato skin would tell her if she was using the cutting edge rather than the back,even while talking to the public!!
Oh my! Don't tell us she sliced her thumb wide open during the next demo.

John K Jordan
09-27-2016, 3:16 PM
Oh my! Don't tell us she sliced her thumb wide open during the next demo.I have a knife sharpening machine that puts such a good edge on a knife you might be able to drop a piece of paper and slice it in two before it hits the ground. When I bought it the dealer told me when sharpening someone's knife to be sure to warn them that it is not just sharp, it is SHARP. Someone who tests an edge with a thumb might wish he hadn't.

A fresh edge on a good SOG, ahh...

JKJ

Tomi Rosso
09-27-2016, 3:48 PM
Do you use best way to secure axe head in the world, the snakehead wedges, at that side of the world? I don't know it real name, but straight translation from finnish is snakehead wedge. Or I have heard also dog cock wedge. And only right handle material is birch....

344841

James Waldron
09-27-2016, 4:25 PM
[snip]And only right handle material is birch....

[snip]

Ha! Everyone knows hickory is right and proper. Birch is for growing bark for canoes. :rolleyes:

Oh, that's right, you guys don't have any hickory. The mountains run the wrong direction, as I've heard, and ice wiped out all the good trees.

(Ducking)

george wilson
09-27-2016, 6:11 PM
In the far North all they have in hardwoods is Birch. That's all we had growing in Alaska.

Stanley Covington
09-28-2016, 12:03 AM
Did you hear about the city fella that bought a chainsaw at the local hardware shop to cut down some trees in his newly-purchased rural backyard? He took it home, but returned to the store the next day, worn out and with blisters on both hands. He complained to the store owner that his new chainsaw didn't cut well at all, and that he wanted a refund, dammit.

The store owner inspected the chain, which was not installed backwards. But he noticed that the teeth were clogged with wood fibers. Hmmmm.

Then he checked the fuel tank and saw it was half full. Then he checked the spark plug, but it was perfect. So far so good.

Then he yanked the starter rope and the chainsaw's motor immediately screamed to life.

The city fella was surprised, nearly jumping out of his argyle socks with shock, and yelled "what the hell is that noise!!??"

Tomi Rosso
09-28-2016, 1:45 AM
Birch, pine and spruce, if you need anything more that's just snobbery. Well maybe alder in sauna at laude. Is there any good translation to word laude, the certain bench where you are sitting when you are throwing water to stove? I have heard that one time one fella found an Oak tree, but that is just a rumor..... :D

Well, yes we have some more trees than those, but forrest are full of birch, pine and spruce. Birch was before obvious choise to axe handle, because when you was chopping birch at firewood and handle breaks, you just take next billet from the pile and make new handle and after that just continue making those firewoods again. Birch is the best firewood in the world too... :o

If you are buying handles at store, those are many times hickory in here too, but birch is traditional way to do it.

James Waldron
09-28-2016, 10:40 AM
[snip]

If you are buying handles at store, those are many times hickory in here too, but birch is traditional way to do it.

Just remember, much of tradition is built on necessity, not quality of result. ;)

(If birch works well, I suppose we can grant a dispensation for it's use in the frozen North. After all, it wouldn't have worked long enough to become a tradition if it didn't work at all.)

John K Jordan
09-28-2016, 11:10 AM
Just remember, much of tradition is built on necessity...


And necessity may be tied closely to availability.

The blacksmith I know who makes reproductions of Viking throwing axes said by amazing good fortune some axes were excavated from an ancient well where enough of the wood was preserved to determine the species. Based on this, he uses ash for his handles to guarantee period authenticity. He said cherry was a second wood found. I suspect Mr Viking might stoop to using what ever wood he could find. Assuming he couldn't find the traditional birch, of course. :)

Tomi Rosso
09-29-2016, 7:31 AM
I read an article of test what Fiskars was made sometime ago. Conclusion was that good quality handle made from birch was as durable as hickory handle. Birch problem is at more unflexible material, that it may hit more to your hands when using it. Head proper position helps to that. Second problem was that when using it at very cold weather, it could break more easily when making a miss hit and handle hits at something. Most usually at destination what you was splitting. But again, man must do better strikes and how often people are using axe at very low temperatures constantly nowadays.

Last winter I read from newspaper at man, who lost his fingers when using axe at winter. He was made firewoods at more then -30 degrees of celcius without gloves. Fingers were freezed, but axe handle was still undamaged.... ;)

You are right of that tradition is not always best way to do things. But many times someone else way to do thigns is not automatically worse. If used right, birch could be as good handle as hickory. But again, it needs right way to use it.