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Randy Riley
09-21-2016, 6:11 PM
Hi all been reading these forms for 9 months thanks for all the good information.
I have a woodworking business and going to add a laser to my shop of tools.
After doing my research I had decided to buy a Rabbit laser QX-80-9060 80watt set up and delivered for around 10000.00
Would like one of the big 3 but can't justify the extra funds.
Have not ordered yet in the process of building a 12x12 room in my 30x40 shop.
A friend of mine has a Universal Vls4.60 60watt. It is a 2013 model he bought it new in 2014.
It has very little use. He has it for sale for around 12000.00.
My question to you is witch one should I pursue. Would like all opinions.
Thanks for your time.

Bert Kemp
09-21-2016, 6:16 PM
I have a Rabbit Laser and am very happy with it but I think if I could afford a UVL I would get that.

John Kleiber
09-21-2016, 7:21 PM
I have a Rabbit Laser and am very happy with it but I think if I could afford a UVL I would get that.

After about 6 months research, we purchased a Rabbit 6040-60 back in March. We went with Rabbit because of price and US location.
Please keep in mind, (at least in our experience) when you pay less, you give up something. In our case I sacrificed support and was prepared to tinker and work my way through.

-John

Bert Kemp
09-21-2016, 7:31 PM
How did you sacrifice Support? Rabbit has excellent support, and great machines.:confused:



After about 6 months research, we purchased a Rabbit 6040-60 back in March. We went with Rabbit because of price and US location.
Please keep in mind, (at least in our experience) when you pay less, you give up something. In our case I sacrificed support and was prepared to tinker and work my way through.

-John

Keith Winter
09-21-2016, 8:31 PM
Hi all been reading these forms for 9 months thanks for all the good information.
I have a woodworking business and going to add a laser to my shop of tools.
After doing my research I had decided to buy a Rabbit laser QX-80-9060 80watt set up and delivered for around 10000.00
Would like one of the big 3 but can't justify the extra funds.
Have not ordered yet in the process of building a 12x12 room in my 30x40 shop.
A friend of mine has a Universal Vls4.60 60watt. It is a 2013 model he bought it new in 2014.
It has very little use. He has it for sale for around 12000.00.
My question to you is witch one should I pursue. Would like all opinions.
Thanks for your time.

Two different classes of machines.

If your shop is 12x12 I'd factor space into that as well. The rabbit machine you quoted will take a full 5x6 space to operate plus the computer. Bed is also bigger which has its pluses. Universal will take much less space and also have a smaller bed. Chinese lasers are typically much larger than their USA cousins because they need more room for the head to operate. Add to that you will also need to find a spot for the chiller in addition to the machine. That being said you can increase bed size relatively cheaply on a Chinese machine, going bigger is very expensive on US Lasers.

If engraving is in your future ULS hands down. If you want to mainly cut then the playing field is more level.

John Kleiber
09-21-2016, 10:24 PM
In research prior to purchase, Rabbit was helpful. Furthermore, comments were very kind regarding their support on the internet in general. Their website, though not the most polished has many install pdf's and helpful information.

The problem in short, we purchased a 50w fiber also in addition to the aforementioned CO2 laser. Along with the fiber I bought a rotary. Upon installation of the fiber, I was told by the installer, the rotary attachment pdf install instructions were not yet complete, but I would have them in a week. Well, that never happened. So for 2 weeks I looked at the rotary (aka the brick). After 2 weeks, no pdf instruction sheet, nada. I then started emailing.... no reply emails. Finally after a month, I called.

So I called them and I was told that they were busy moving into their new building. There was still no instruction sheet still. Afterwards, email upon email went back and forth regarding the issue. Still no solution.

Suddenly I realized that technically I knew more about the problem and ultimately the solution than Rabbit regarding interfacing a rotary and controlling it via EZcad2.

I fixed the issue myself after about 3 days of dedicated trouble shooting and happily never shared the solution with Rabbit.

I enjoy this forum and afterwards shared my solution with others on the board having rotary issues. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/archive/index.php/t-239978.html

In closing, how would you feel after you dished out a chunk of change, were told it'll be squared away in a week....... then ignored after the check clears for a month and a half.....Very Uncool!

-John

John Lifer
09-22-2016, 9:57 AM
I agree with most of the above, I looked briefly at Rabbit and a couple of other 'importers' of Chinese lasers. And I have a machine now being built by Ray Fine and importing myself for about half the price of a Rabbit. Yes, I'm on my own (well not really, I have all of your guys as remote technicians I guess;)).
But I am one who has no problem sticking his hands inside a machine to both understand, repair and fix it. But having said that, I have also briefly looked at Universal. They appear to be great machines, and from the comments on other threads, (two now active go READ) I'd take a used Universal in a second as opposed to a Chinese manufactured machine at close to the same price. Yes they aren't exact swapouts, but if the Universal would do what my need is, get it. And then if you need larger machine, import direct...... Just my free thoughts...

Tony Lenkic
09-22-2016, 10:05 AM
John,

If you have not noticed, one of members here on the forum has ULS V460 listed in classified section for price close to China imports.

Bill George
09-22-2016, 10:40 AM
John,

If you have not noticed, one of members here on the forum has ULS V460 listed in classified section for price close to China imports.

Thanks Tony. That one can be seen in operation and has USA support and parts also, if that means anything.

Marshal Jones
05-17-2017, 1:31 PM
Im a bit late to this thread but figured I'd post for future readers. I agree with Keith, two different classes of machines. I used Universal lasers in college and owned a Rabbit to run production. If you are going to be using it for general purpose engraving and cutting then I would stick with Rabbit. If you want faster run times and better engraving quality then go with Universal. Build quality, maintenance downtime, support and how much space the machine takes up are big factors that should be considered. The Universal is a nicer machine but the Rabbit never left me hanging when I was doing 20 hours of cut time a week for months at a time.

Im writing my experience with the Rabbit on my blog now that I have time to do so and will be posting more in the future. For now I have my initial impressions article written. For anyone thinking about buying a Rabbit, check it out.

Robert Bonenfant
05-17-2017, 2:29 PM
I agree with others - Check out rabbits laser - Ray is a great help, even when working on other companies machines. We had trouble with our camfive lasers and called ray and he came out that week and back up and running we were.

Randy Riley
05-18-2017, 5:47 PM
Thanks all for your responses.
In December I took possession of a new Trotec Speedy 300 80watt.
I could not be any happier.
Thanks Again!

Nicolas Silva
05-18-2017, 5:56 PM
I'll put it this way. I have a ULS. It gets used 7-8 hours per day, 330 days a year. it is now 16 years old. I've had one loose wire in those 16 years.
sure - I've replaced things that wear out (tubes, belts, lenses, bearings), but no real breakage. And I don't see ULS very often in those "I've got a XYZ machine, and it's broke" threads that are so prevalent on this forum. how are the rabbits holding up?

Bert Kemp
05-18-2017, 6:49 PM
I've had my Rabbit going on 3 years now, no breakdowns. Had some software troubles but the machine is rock solid:)


I'll put it this way. I have a ULS. It gets used 7-8 hours per day, 330 days a year. it is now 16 years old. I've had one loose wire in those 16 years.
sure - I've replaced things that wear out (tubes, belts, lenses, bearings), but no real breakage. And I don't see ULS very often in those "I've got a XYZ machine, and it's broke" threads that are so prevalent on this forum. how are the rabbits holding up?

John Kleiber
05-19-2017, 1:06 PM
I have never owned a Universal laser, however I do own lasers from Rabbit Laser. Since this thread has popped up again I would like to make something crystal clear regarding Rabbit Laser that I did no state before.

They offer a high quality machine that's incredibly well built. To be blunt, they are built like tanks. Supper solid construction and quality components.

Based on their pricing and quality, I would buy from Rabbit again in a New York minute.

-John

Scott Shepherd
05-19-2017, 2:17 PM
It's all relative to what you are doing. All you will get here is textbook cases of Confirmation Bias. "I have one and I love it, so you'll love it too".

No one can answer the "Which laser should I buy" questions without knowing your budget, the type of work you plan on doing, etc. Some people might do things that the Chinese machines do just fine, and they do that all day and not much else. To them, the Chinese machine is "perfect", while others might have work that requires 3-4 pt fonts and extreme detail and accuracy at high speeds. For them, a Western machine is the only good choice. You have to buy the machine that's right for your budget and type of work. There is no right answer that fits everyone.

Jerome Stanek
05-19-2017, 4:32 PM
I agree with Scott I have a LG500 that I bought from Automation Technologies and bought it to cut certain jobs. If I was engraving all the time I would have gone with a western unit.

Tony Lenkic
05-19-2017, 5:54 PM
Here is my view on this subject.

I have owned Universal machine and had no issues with it performance wise but it was so painfully slow. For that reason I got Trotec Speedy 300 for my needs (best move I made). I also get local support for parts and answers if required.
90% of my work is raster engraving and speed was needed to get the orders quickly. I own Xenetech rotary engravers and could have gone with their laser as speed is on level with Trotec but support was from USA (some other issues there).

If I would go with Chinese laser of any sort it must have a local support as well. I just cannot be without fully operational machine more than 24 hours.

Bill George
05-19-2017, 7:22 PM
I had an older maybe 8 years old ULS I purchased used and it was built like a tank. It was 6 years after a tube recharge and still put out nearly 10 watts more than its rating. If I needed a larger machine again, it would be a no brainer. Sure for like $20,000 more the Trotec is faster.... and it should be. :rolleyes:

Scott Shepherd
05-19-2017, 8:56 PM
I had an older maybe 8 years old ULS I purchased used and it was built like a tank. It was 6 years after a tube recharge and still put out nearly 10 watts more than its rating. If I needed a larger machine again, it would be a no brainer. Sure for like $20,000 more the Trotec is faster.... and it should be. :rolleyes:

What that $20,000 (not sure why you compare the price of a used Universal to a new Trotec, but okay) gets us is a competitive advantage on pricing and throughput. We are doing a $7,000 job right now that we took from a competitor because they were taking to long to get them done and their price was too high. Without the Trotec, our quote would have been more and it would have taken us longer. They specifically told us our pricing and throughput capabilities where what got us the job. Just for reference, that $7000 job is done in one week, and they came in yesterday and told us the orders were pouring in and we'd see another order soon.

Like I said, it's all relative to your business. If I did it as a hobby or vector cut all day, I'd probably have a row of Chinese machines.

Lee DeRaud
05-20-2017, 1:26 AM
If I did it as a hobby or vector cut all day, I'd probably have a row of Chinese machines.I might agree if I were starting out today, but not in 2005 when I got my ULS. :p

Keith Outten
05-20-2017, 1:32 PM
I should remind you guys that we purchased a Xenetech 60 watt laser engraver at CNU that had a bug in their software that was never fixed and the last time I called them for tech support after the machine was out of warranty I was asked for a credit card if I wanted assistance.