1953 delta unisaw help in deciding if its a good deal

[manuel ramon]

Hellow again hope im in the right spot here but im going to look at a 1953 delta unisaw single phase and it has a 220 plug is what im told and he says it runs but has a squel around the blade area while turning off so ill post my pics and ask for everyones input whats it actually worth my last question is the motor is it that motor everyone talking about the repulsion is something like that

[David Kumm]

The Unisaw has a cult following over at owwm.org. They won't give you a value so don't ask. $200 could be a great deal if the motor is good and likely low enough that you could sell parts and recover your money. There are lots of unisaw rehab threads there and lots of pictures on vintagemachinery.org, the sister site. They are sought after. The castings will be better than a new clone but the motor is probably 1-1.5 hp although well made. Dave

[Jon Endres]

Single phase is good. It's a perfect candidate for a full restoration. If I were looking for one to restore, I'd give between $250 and $350 for it, depending on a closer inspection. The internal parts are more important than the stuff you can see. Are the trunnions and gears in good shape, or are they worn or broken? It does not have a motor cover, which is an expensive part to replace. The fence is worthless, not because of condition, but because they are difficult to adjust and rarely can be gotten to hold position. The miter gauge is missing a knob. Everything else looks like it's there. The term is 'repulsion-induction' motor and yes, that is one, and it looks original to the saw.

Invest in a lot of time to make sure the internals are clean, well lubricated and adjusted properly. Clean and wax the table. Make some zero-clearance inserts. Put new belts on it. Invest in a Biesemeyer or similar fence. By the time you are done you'll have $700-$800 into a good solid saw.

[lee cox]

It probably depends on whether you like to work on old saws. I have 2 Unisaws one is an 1950 model and one is a 1949 model. The 1949 model is a Unisaw Jr. It was a rust bucket not useable when I got it.. I completely tore it down cleaned and painted everything. New bearings. In the meantime I found a 1950 Unisaw requiring very little work but cost more which I bought. I found out I enjoy working on the old saws as much as I like to do wood working. I had a lot of fun. It took a lot of hours so it would not be cost effective to make a couple of bucks trying to do this but it saved an old saw from the scrap heap.

I also have an old 1950 Atlas drill press which I restored. I now have 22 year old bandsaw I am playing with. I think I have the old tool fever.

So I should add you have my answer. Of course buy it. Pay a little more and when you are finished you will have something which will last another 60 years. It makes me happy. I like the old tools better than the new ones.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

No Riving Knife is a deal breaker for me.

[manuel ramon]

The guy is asking 150 for the saw so i just wanted to make sure it was one of the unisaw that everyone looks for which i think it is the dust door with the emblem delta and the on off switch assymbly says unisaw and original bullet style motor still in working condition he said it was his grandfathers saw and no one has used it in 25-30 yrs the grandfather died recently and ther selling everything cuz they need to go back home but ill see it running come saturday morning if it turns on and cuts wood then she will be coming home with me

[Matt Day]

Looks like a good restoration candidate. If you don't mind putting some work into it I think it will work out nicely.

Jon summed it up nicely. Make sure there are no missing teeth on the trunnions too. You can pickup an aftermarket goose egg cover for about $150 I think.

One thing, try to add some punctuation to your posts. One long block of run on sentence with no periods or question marks makes it very difficult to figure out your questions.

[Mike Goetzke]

I got lucky and found a 1950 Uni in a little better shape for $150 (gloat). I ended up doing a full restoration and documented most of it at OWWM. I even rebuilt the "bullet" motor. Basically took the whole saw apart, replaced the bearings, and a missing part here and there. I made my own brass bullets and necklace. Had a blast restoring it. I later added a modern fence and found an original cast iron "goose-egg" dust cover. The materials to restore the saw (small parts, cleaners, paint etc.) cost about $200, the new fence around $150 and the egg almost $200. Put it on a mobile base use it all the time.

Mike

[manuel ramon]

I understand i was never good in english so i not sure wher to put punctuation sounds sad but thats why i just type it and space type space but ill try my best .

[Cary Falk]

It is worth the money in parts if nothing else. Lack of a riving knife would be a deal killer for me. You will more than likely want to replace the fence with something more useable. You could probably sell the jetlock fence over at OWWM. It will be a better saw than any contractor saw you would be able to find on CL.

[manuel ramon]

Yes i have to do proper punctuation i never liked English so im not sure wher punctuation goes lol... but ill try my best...

[manuel ramon]

Cary ,What is the knife riving? Part your talking about.

[Garth Almgren]

A riving knife is a splitter that sits right behind the blade and keeps the kerf from closing on the back of the blade. Really useful for preventing kickback.

More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riving_knife and here: http://www.rockler.com/how-to/riving-blade-important-shop-safety/

[Matt Day]

No worries Manuel! Whatever your native language, I can't speak or write it as good as you write in English!

[lee cox]

No Riving Knife is a deal breaker for me.

What do you do when cutting dados? Do you take the riving knife off? I am old school. My shop class in the old days did not have a riving knife nor a blade guard. I just use an old Unisaw the same way I was taught. My dad also ended taking his off. I never really asked why. It just seemed normal.

[Cary Falk]

The beauty of a riving knife is that is rises and falls with the blade so it never has to be removed like a splitter for non through cuts. I had a Beisemeyer snap in splitter on my UNI before I sold it. I would take it out to get it out of the way when I moved the blade under the table and would forget to put it back. The riving knife is much more convenient.

[David Kumm]

Google riving knife but it is a piece of thin metal, equal in thickness to plate on blade but less than kerf that keeps the stock from closing up after the cut if the board has internal tension. You can make a throat plate and put an MJ splitter in that works just as well, even better than an incorrectly sized knife. It should not be a deal breaker, there are modifications that are easy and effective. Dave

[manuel ramon]

Thanks matt

[Mike Henderson]

Whether to buy the saw depends on what your objectives are. If you just want the challenge of restoring an old saw, go for it.

But if you want a saw to use for woodworking, I'd suggest you look for a more modern saw. Many of those old Unisaws had very low HP motors, and as Mike H pointed out, that saw does not have a riving knife, which is a good safety device. The problem with restoring an old saw like that is when you finish restoring it, what you have is an old saw.

Like many tools, the engineers and manufacturers have made advances in the tools. Go modern if you plan to use it for woodworking.

Mike

[Matt Day]

Let's not turn this into a riving knife or saw stop argument. As long as Manuel researches and understands what they are its his call.

[John TenEyck]

A bullet motor like the one on that saw has an amazing amount of torque. My friend has a 1950 Unisaw with a 1 HP bullet motor and has no trouble ripping 2" white oak. That motor would not be a deal breaker for me, nor would the lack of a riving knife. Put the original splitter and guard on it, or a modern aftermarket one like a Shark guard, and a new fence like maybe a Vega, and that saw will serve you well - assuming the internals are all good. But plan on putting new arbor bearings and motor bearings into it before using it. All in you're looking at maybe $800, as someone else mentionsed, but you'll have a better saw than anything new you can buy for that.

John

[manuel ramon]

Well mike ,i see what your saying .good point ther and im looking for one just as a hobby just started wood working a year ago and i just build stuff for the house and things like that its not a career for me.if i needed it for work then your right i would be looking for modern

[manuel ramon]

John ,thats exactly what i plan on doing is the bearings .as far as the motor yes your right thats what i been reading. The motors are perfect for what im using it for. The on3 i have now is 50 table saw and its perfect but i want a unisaw just cuz i like the look of old machines i guess .and for 150 for a 1953 original delta unisaw single phase minus the egg cover is awsome

[manuel ramon]

Matt do you own a unisaw.

[John T Barker]

Hellow again hope im in the right spot here but im going to look at a 1953 delta unisaw single phase and it has a 220 plug is what im told and he says it runs but has a squel around the blade area while turning off so ill post my pics and ask for everyones input whats it actually worth my last question is the motor is it that motor everyone talking about the repulsion is something like that
I've got one that is a year or two older but with a Biesmeyer 48"? It needs new bearings but I've had it for 20+ years so that is to be expected. I'd say go for it. Yes, it needs rehab but that's a great way to learn all about the tool. That fence will work fine and in quite a few years in professional shops and more in my own I've never seen or needed a splitter. Good technique works fine.

[Terry Therneau]

I use a 1948 Unisaw, it is a very nice machine. Some comments.
1. Trunions: once in a while someone will manage to break the internal raise/tilt mechanism. It is not easy to do, but fools are ingenuous. For instance let it fill so full of sawdust that it gums everything up, and then apply more and more muscle to turn the handwheels. Eventually a cog will break in the raising gear. This is unlikely, but a deal killer if present. I don't know any way to check other than laying on the ground and putting your head in the dust door. Even better is to take off the top.

2. A repulsion-induction motor is more expensive to make but pulls less amps when it starts up, so are a plus for a shop that is marginal for electrical power. That was once common for home shops; Delta eventually stopped making that style motor. My unisaw is 1HP on the plate and I have to work really hard to stall it, 1.5" maple or oak is not a problem. This is a motor that can do 1 HP continuously; modern motors are branded with the max HP, which is what they generate just as they stall out. A modern "2 HP" is likely closer to 1 HP continuous duty. (Different vendors stretch the truth by different amounts, though).

3. The grease in a bearing lasts for about 20 years. This is true for an unused bearing on the shelf as well as one that is in use. Plan on changing the bearings. It will cost you some time, but only $20 or so for the bearings. (Where to buy them is a "sticky" topic on the owwm.org site, always near the top.)

4. The Jetlock fence on the saw is not half bad when clean and adjusted, I used one for several years. But the rust I see on the rails will cause issues. Lots of people upgrade to a Unifence, Beismeier, Vega, super-cool fence, etc, etc.

5. I use something much like the MJ splitter, and it works well. This provides a major upgrade in safety. Don't skip it.

Terry Therneau

[manuel ramon]

Kool thanks .yeah it's a perfect way to learn. Like the say( let the good times roll)

[David Kumm]

Ramon, for reference, the woodworking- machine guys I've talked to put the old Unisaw somewhere between the SS PCS and ICS. I've not torn one down but that looks about right. I'm not a Uni fan as I'd rather spend my rehab time with an industrial machine but I would argue that other than the flash sensing technology there have been few improvements in modern woodworking machines. The ability to cost reduce and still have a machine that is acceptable is the biggest difference. Rehabbing old machines doesn't make much economic sense if you just want to cut wood but is a way to get " better than new and learn what makes a good machine. Depends on your interest but modern isn't better unless really high end and I could still argue that. Here is a $500 saw with about another $500 in it. Granted, I have a similar Robinson that I have more like $4000 in but I still consider it a bargain. 344590 Whitney slider. The next size up from your Uni is this Rockwell 12. Has a 60" sliding table which I removed and added a Beisemeyer fence. Single phase with scoring. I bought used 20 years ago and have about 2K in it. 344591344592 It was plug and play. Built about twice as heavy as the Uni and less than half of the Whitney but both have done lots of woodworking. Dave

[manuel ramon]

terry thats right im going to ask him to remove the top so i could check them teeth and all that good stuff .ive read on sites that its a pita to remove the bearings unless you know what your doing . i have no idea what im doing yet so im thinking a trip to the machine shop probably be faster than trying to do it myself.for sure i have the paint,cleaning, rubbing,polishing down to an art.

[manuel ramon]

Those are some really nice units you hqve ther David. Wow awsome ,nice work on the restoration part.i hope if i buy mine they look as nice as the ones you own .that blue one really stands out. i like that dark blue ,its very industrial looking .they both look nice great job......

[Mike Henderson]

This is a motor that can do 1 HP continuously; modern motors are branded with the max HP, which is what they generate just as they stall out. A modern "2 HP" is likely closer to 1 HP continuous duty. (Different vendors stretch the truth by different amounts, though).


Terry Therneau

I'm afraid that's not true. Induction motors are rated honestly and really can deliver the nameplate HP continuously. So, to take your example, a modern 2HP motor will deliver a constant 2HP if you load it to that level, say to operate a fan.

The reason your motor does not stall out is that when you start to load it down, and slow down the RPMs, the starting circuit cuts in and provides some additional torque. [Added note: The starting circuit cuts in at about 70% of rated RPM. So for a 3450 motor, you'll have to stall the motor to about 2400 RPM in order to get the centrifugal switch to cut in.] However, the motor was not designed to operate that way and if you loaded the motor to that level continuously, you would burn up the motor from excess heat (because you're drawing excess current - beyond the rated current for the motor). The reason you get away with it is that you pull back when the motor starts to stall out so you limit the amount of heat generated in the motor. Then you probably allow the motor to run with no load for a while which allows the fan to cool down the motor. But whatever you do, the important thing is that you don't operate it continuously at that reduced RPM and you allow the motor to cool down.

So, no, your 1HP motor only delivers 1HP in normal continuous operation. A modern 2HP induction motor will deliver a constant 2HP in continuous operation and not overheat.

As a side note, Repulsion/induction motors have brushes which eventually wear out. Plus they have more parts which makes them more expensive. That's the real reason all the manufacturers moved away from repulsion/induction motors. Additionally, Repulsion/induction motors have high starting torque and that's generally not needed in woodworking tools because we start them unloaded.

The standard induction motor is much better suited to woodworking tools.

Mike

[A modern induction motor will not stall out at it's rated HP - it will operate just fine. Note that some modern induction motors have a service factor. That's the amount you can exceed the rated HP and the motor will increase in temperature by 10 degrees C. However, operating at that heat level will degrade the life of the motor. So if the service factor is 1.1, and you have a 2HP motor, you can operate the motor at 2.2HP and it will get 10 degrees hotter - and it's life will be degraded.]

[You're probably thinking of universal motors which are rated at their "stall HP"]

[Cary Falk]

The Saw Center used too rebuild the arbor for $100 if yo don't want to tackle it yourself. I'm not sure if i would trust any machine shop. I did it and it is not hard but it takes some care and the part is getting harder to find.make you check the trunnion wherenit meets the cabinet. That is a weak spot.

[Matt Day]

I don't have a Unisaw but have restored a Powermatic 65, a Delta turret radial arm saw, and am working on a Northfield 12" jointer now. You will find soooo much information on rebuilding a Unisaw over on OWWM, you really need to do some research over there.

[Michael Dye]

I'm not sure where everybody stands as far as purchase price goes, but I'll pay $500 and up for an older Unisaw, any day. Ramon, your $150 saw is a steal. I know these values are subjective, but let's say you put $150 into the purchase, $50 into new arbor bearings, $400 into a bigger motor, and another $300 into a quality fence. Less than a grand for that saw, which will run circles around anything available today...........that's a steal even if you paid $600 for the saw. JMHO. For what it's worth, I buy and rebuild these saws all the time. Not just Delta/Rockwell, but Powermatic and the occasional Walker/Turner, as well. Whenever a potential buyer shows up, they are always amazed at the quality of the old saws. Haven't missed a sale in 30 years. Sadly, band saws are a completely different story.

[Charles Taylor]

Induction motors are rated honestly and really can deliver the nameplate HP continuously.


I think you're right that the PP is thinking of universal motors, whose HP ratings are pure fiction. There are some notable exceptions to the usual honest rating of induction motors, though, such as big-box store air compressors and, well, anything labeled Craftsman in the last 20 or 30 years.

[mark mcfarlane]

'What's a riving knife'.

A good friend of mine, an electrical engineer, was working in our community wood shop last weekend. He learned to operate a table saw by watching others in the shop. He was ripping a board on an old Unisaw without a riving knife and experienced his first kickback, which shot the board through the wall at the other end of the shop. Luckily he wasn't behind the cutoff. He had never even heard of kickback before this event.

Manuel, whatever you decide, do spend some time learning about how to use table saws safely before you turn one on and try to cut wood. Read a book on table saw safety. There are techniques to reduce the chance of kickback, including safety devices like riving knives, and there are ways to minimize the chance that you get seriously injured, like where you stand, jigs to hold the wood,... Kickback doesn't just throw wood, it can also be the cause of your hand to slip into the blade resulting in serious personal injury/amputation.

In 2003 there were 38,000 table saw accidents in the USA alone. http://tablesawaccidents.com.

I don't mean to sound too alarmist, but if you aren't familiar with what a riving knife is then I suspect you don't have very much woodworking experience, so the caution to do some safety study is appropriate. Table saws can be used safely, but you need to do your homework and then decide what's best for you.

[manuel ramon]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input in restoration, motor,bearings, and most importantly safety .soon as i get her home ill start the pics .....i wanted to ask a question. Is there such a thing as bearings for the blade

[Chris Fournier]

Sounds like a good deal. Looking at the insert it seems that the saw came with a blade guard, sorry I'm too lazy to look up parts diagrams. If this is so there is a mounting point for the blade guard. Make your own kerf splitter and you have a very safe saw. Don't get hung up on "riving knife", a kerf splitter will do. I made mine out of hard maple and it served me well for over 10 years!

[ken carroll]

Manuel,

The 1hp bullet is a fine motor. I have a 1952 unisaw - just like yours and would not hesitate to use it to rip 2" hardwood even though I have a 1946 5hp Oliver alongside it. A sharp thin kerf carbide blade is required for best performance, and yes, $150 is a great price.

You will not kill yourself because you don't have a riving knife but advice to learn how to use a table saw properly is good advice. I have no riving knife or splitter on my Uni and I am still around.

One final thing I don't agree with the advice to automatically replace the arbor bearings. I guess I always get in arguments about this on OWWM. The bearings sound and feel will tell you if they need replacing. Would you automatically replace the wheel bearings on a used car?

[John TenEyck]

No, only the arbor bearings.

John

[Matt Day]

The hole in the blade goes over a threaded "bolt" and tightened up with a nut. That "bolt" is called the arbor and the nut is an arbor nut. The arbor spins on bearings which usually need replacing on a saw of this age (assuming they haven't been replaced before).

[Mike Goetzke]

I put a SharkGuard splitter/blade guard/dust collection on my 1950 Uni. Watch out it's addictive- I only planned to clean mine up a bit and use it and ended up completely restoring it including the motor.

Mike

[manuel ramon]

Ken,ill make sure i take my time and not rush in and start replacing everything at once which i normally do with other things.then go to find out it wasnt even needed .i guess if it aint broken why fix it .im probably just excited bout getti g the unisaw.