Buying a band saw that was used for dry ice cutting

[Cody Jensen]

I am in the market for a band saw and have been waiting for a 14" model to pop up for sale near me. However, there is a great deal on a much larger (24") band saw that was used for cutting dry ice by me. It has a 3 ph motor, which I will have to deal with or switch out to single phase, but other than that, are there going to be long term issues? I can assume there is a fair amount of surface rust due to water condensation, but I wasn't sure if it would cause bearing to seize up or any other problems.

[Tom Trees]

I replaced the bearings on my saw and it only cost me about a ten quid
I borrowed a bearing puller from a mechanic for the night.
No bother getting the lend of the tool as they cost little and are built solid and wont get damaged .
The guides on my ACM saw have bronze bushes for the blade guides ..They're hardy in a ceasing sort of sense ...
But if they cease up and the machine operator doesn't bother sorting the problem the thrust guide can get fairly abused ...
there was 5mm deep cuts into the thrust bearing on my machine , which I ground off and welded beads back on to reface the thrust bearing.
My saw was pretty rusty too
Go have a look at it
Once you get used to the mountain bike sized wheels ,everything else you look at suddenly turns into a child's bicycle

Also If you get a look at the motor nameplate ,have a look to see if the motor has the option of wiring it to 220/240V ..it will be stated on it.
This means it can be wired for low voltage " DELTA " ....the symbol for delta is a TRIANGLE
If you see these symbols you know you can use a VFD / inverter call it what ya like .
I can run my 3hp saw on a 13a plug with less bother than my 750w single phase pillar drill press ....
Good luck

[John McClanahan]

Dry ice is solid carbon dioxide, so the only moisture would be from the parts getting cold and sweating. The table may even have some sort of cover on it to protect the dry ice from rust marks. A VFD would be a good way to run the saw on single phase.


John

[Matt Day]

Make sure you have space for a 24" saw, which is a giant (check ceiling height) compared to a 14".

[Charles Lent]

We can't see the condition, but cutting dry ice by itself should not be a problem. Where was the saw located? Was it in a freezer? If so, it's likely got little or no rust on it. Freezers have very low humidity. How old is it? Who made it? What is the model number? You will need to determine the condition, mostly on your own because we can't see it, but you should also already know it's condition if you ran it recently. It would probably be wise to plan on bearing and tire replacement, cool block replacement for the blade guides, maybe a paint job, etc. Can you post pictures of it here? Have you checked www.vintagemachinery.com to see what they say about it? Is there a manual for it? If not, you may be able to download one while on vintage machinery.com.

A VFD avoids the need to replace the motor, and it also lets you vary the speed of the saw, but don't run it slower than about 40% of the motor's rated speed under load because you are also slowing down the internal cooling fan and could overheat the motor easily. But you can also run the motor speed about 40% faster than it's rated speed with the VFD. Using single phase power to run 3 phase equipment requires more single phase current than the 3 phase current requirements (over double) , so have you got the power available to run it as a single phase 240 volt machine? (you don't get something for nothing with electric power).

If I had the space and a way to make it run as a woodworking tool in my shop, I would be all over it as quickly as possible. If it's repairable, that's a fantastic find.

Charley

[Mike Henderson]

I agree with Charles. If that bandsaw is priced right (cheap) I'd be all over it. And I agree with the advice to get a VFD instead of a replacement motor. You won't find a 24" bandsaw at a good price very often.

Check ceiling height and make sure you have a way to move it. You can rent trucks with a lift gate and that makes things much simpler for the move.

Mike

[Bill Dufour]

Only thing may be the tires are cracked from running cold. Can the motor be replaced or is the lower wheel attached directly to the motor? Even if it is direct drive there are ways around that especially if there is a shaft at both ends. If it stayed inside a freezer any rust was very slow. Rusty table is no problem rusted trunnions and adjuters is a bigger problem but if they can be taken apart not to too big a problem using EDTA. I suppose if it runs the wiring is good and not frozen cracked insulation inside the motor.
Does wiring have issues if used in cold conditons? I have never lived in low temps. I have been told that at 40 below plastics start to shatter like glass.
Bil lD.

[Cody Jensen]

So the saw is listed on ebay for $250 and it is 40 miles from me. It is a Tannewitz Advantage, which unless there is something wrong with it, seems like it should be a $2,000+ saw. I have a garage with 10' ceilings it will be going in, but I think I will need to tilt the saw or remove a garage door to actually get it in. I am hoping someone else buys it so I don't have to try to figure out how to get it working, since there is currently only a single 120V circuit in the garage. At some point this fall I was going to do some electrical where I would add a 240V for a heater and another 1-2 for tools, but I currently only have 120V tools, so there hasn't been much pressure to get it done.

The seller also has a 30" Jones Superior saw that looks like a fire started by the lower wheel, but that could just be debris. Either way, $250 for either one seems ridiculously low.

[Matt Day]

$250 for a Tannewitz ANYTHING is a steal. Should be a fun project to fix up. I'm jealous!

You need to get that saw. You could use a laundry outlet temporarily if that's close to the garage, and you'll likely have some cleanup on the saw. So no rush on the 220.

[Bill Dufour]

They make VFD's that are 120 in and 240 out. You need to buy that saw. So what if you have a year to get it running. Do you ever buy wood and allow it to season before using it?
it is worth the price for the table trunnions and a few other pieces. Do not lift by the table. remove the table before moving the saw. A lot of them are sitting unusable with broken trunnions.
A good auto wrecker can pick that up by the arm and shove it inside your garage door.
Bill D.

PS: Are you sure this is not a meat cutting saw without guides ?

[CPeter James]

VFDs with 120V in and 240V out only go up to 1HP. But any motor up to 3 hp, a VFD is the way to go. After 3 HP things change and get expensive. Not an expert, but I do have 14 VFDs and a lot of experience with them in small shops.

CPEter

[Bill Dufour]

VFDs with 120V in and 240V out only go up to 1HP. But any motor up to 3 hp, a VFD is the way to go. After 3 HP things change and get expensive. Not an expert, but I do have 14 VFDs and a lot of experience with them in small shops.

CPEter

My lathe came with that kind of vfd and it has a 3hp motor. It has worked okay but only light cuts so far. So it can be done off 120 until he gets 240 in the shop. The the small vfd can be used for something like a sander.
Bil lD.

[Cody Jensen]

VFDs with 120V in and 240V out only go up to 1HP. But any motor up to 3 hp, a VFD is the way to go. After 3 HP things change and get expensive. Not an expert, but I do have 14 VFDs and a lot of experience with them in small shops.

CPEter


I believe this is offered with a 3.6 and 5 hp motor (asked seller, no response which one it is), so is it easier to find a single phase motor than to convert 3 phase? I know there are added benefits to 3 phase, but I'm curious on price. My wife won't be pleased if my $250 saw takes $1000 to get working. While still a good price on a Tannewitz, I can't swing that right now.

[Mike Henderson]

VFDs with 120V in and 240V out only go up to 1HP. But any motor up to 3 hp, a VFD is the way to go. After 3 HP things change and get expensive. Not an expert, but I do have 14 VFDs and a lot of experience with them in small shops.

CPEter
The reason those 120V VFDs only support small motors is that most 120V circuits only supply 15 amps - some 20 amps - and that limits you as to how much power the VFD can put out. There are losses in the VFD so the output power will not be as great as the power going in.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

I believe this is offered with a 3.6 and 5 hp motor (asked seller, no response which one it is), so is it easier to find a single phase motor than to convert 3 phase? I know there are added benefits to 3 phase, but I'm curious on price. My wife won't be pleased if my $250 saw takes $1000 to get working. While still a good price on a Tannewitz, I can't swing that right now.

My opinion is that if you can find a single phase motor at a decent price, go with that rather than a 3 phase motor with a VFD. While the VFD will allow you to adjust the speed, most bandsaws are single speed and we all use them very effectively. Meaning, I wouldn't spend much money to make a bandsaw variable speed.

The only reason I'd recommend a VFD for a bandsaw is if the saw came with a 3 phase motor and you had to adapt it to single phase.

Mike

[Van Huskey]

Its 40 miles away... go look at it.

I wouldn't expect anything to be inherently bad about dry ice cutting, just look for the obvious rust issues from condensation and attempt to get them to show it under power. I would just inspect it like any other bandsaw. Sounds like from the price it is either a basket case or they just want it gone.

For $250 if no major issues it is a bargain, plain an simple, while it isn't a cast G series it is a nice steel saw though light compared to the better steel spined saws today. The one big issue I would look at is the guides, with ice cutting they may not even be present, if they are gone or are in poor shape consider that in the equation. Carter most likely will have a solution (you will probably have to call them vs just looking on their website) an would almost certainly be cheaper than OEM.

The Advantage saws were/are all belt drive AFAIK so there is the option for a single phase motor but you are still probably going to want 3hp or 5hp so you will still need 240V so a VFD would make more fiscal sense unless you luck into a cheap used single phase motor. That saw will have about 16 inches of resaw and should be right about 7 feet tall, so while it may need to be tipped to go through a 7' garage door it should tip back up and sit under a 8' ceiling with no issues. One good thing is Tannewitz still sells the saw so if anything is missing or bad you could likely get the part very easily though at potentially significant cost.

Honestly, if I needed a BS in that size and weight range (or just wanted one) for $250 and only 40 miles away I would have already been to get it.

A VFD for either the 3.6 or 5hp motor will run about $350 for the quality that I would use, however, lots of people have had good luck with the Chinese VFDs on eBay at closer to $150. If you go the Chinese direct route you need to do some more research. Switching to 1ph may be cheaper depending on what motor you choose and or if you can find a good deal on a used one.

All that said if $1k will land you either in the dog house or divorce court I might suggest a pass. Without going through it I would budget $1K total to be up and running either on 1ph or VFD 3ph, since I bet you will spend some money sorting the guides and possibly belts and tires and some decent blades (not even factoring in a carbide blade). This isn't to say that with some luck and research you might not be able to get up and running for $500 or so but I wouldn't bet the happiness of my household on it.


PS VS versus single speed, if you only plan to cut wood then you don't need VS. The good thing about VFDs is the ability to add motor braking to a BS. The Advantage has a foot brake BUT often BS that come from industrial use have worn out and/or junked brakes. You can often reline them with high frition material from Mcmaster et al for a evenings worth of work but the OEM approach is usually expensive.

[David Kumm]

Van, do you know who makes the Advantage saw? Back when I was looking at steel saws the Advantage was Italian and their Power series was Taiwan. It doesn't look ACM, but it looks a little like the old Centauro saws that SCM sold prior to the current range. Dave

[Van Huskey]

Van, do you know who makes the Advantage saw? Back when I was looking at steel saws the Advantage was Italian and their Power series was Taiwan. It doesn't look ACM, but it looks a little like the old Centauro saws that SCM sold prior to the current range. Dave

I am 99% sure you are correct on both counts, at least the Advantage was still Italian as of 3-4 years ago. The Advantage line does indeed look like the lighter Centauro saws that they OEMed in years past based on their SP line, it has both the general build and details that indicate a Centauro saw. The SP based saws built for SCM looked a little different from the SP line but were based on it (AFAIK). In any event I am pretty confident the Advantage line is an OEM varient of the Centauro SP. To verify if the saw in question is an Italian saw as long as it has the original motor it will be Italian but honestly if it has been used in a commercial setting chances are good it has been remotored at some point depending on age.


One other thing I thought about re the dry ice saw it very well may not have a fence and may well have an OEM or aftermarket sliding table. This is another finacial consideration but one could be shopbuilt, if the table is indeed a slider how useful it will be as is for woodworking is hard to say as well as being difficult to say how much trouble/money it would cost to convert to a "standard" table.

[Cody Jensen]

Just for closure, I am going to pass on the saw. I finally heard back from the seller and they do not have any accessories or the original table. I am currently rehabbing a jointer that was missing pieces and I don't need a second tool-related project (10 mo old son takes up most of my free time). Thanks for the info.

[Van Huskey]

Just for closure, I am going to pass on the saw. I finally heard back from the seller and they do not have any accessories or the original table. I am currently rehabbing a jointer that was missing pieces and I don't need a second tool-related project (10 mo old son takes up most of my free time). Thanks for the info.

Given the update, probably a good ides, sometimes even free isn't cheap enough.