Scissor nailing - Is it effective to hold crown molding to ceiling when you

[George Bokros]

have nothing else to nail to at the ceiling?

I am installing crown on a closet organizer. I am going to nail to the upper rail but am thinking some nails into the ceiling would help hold it to the ceiling. I am running parallel to the ceiling joists and unfortunately there isn't one where I have to nail the crown. There is approximately an 1 1/2" gap to the ceiling from the top rail of the face frame.

Thoughts?

Thanks

[Jay Jolliffe]

I've done that it work OK. Would be better into wood but if you don't have it go for it. I also have used an adhesive calking on the back side against the drywall.

[Bill McNiel]

I wouldn't bother nailing into drywall, it won't hold. When I install crown I shoot through the highest section that has full contact with the top rail.

[Justin Ludwig]

Nailing into drywall is wasting a nail and making more caulk/putty work. I don't know how severe the seasonal change is in Ohio, but down here the caulk is going to crack with the movement of the crown from one season to the next regardless of how many nails you have in it.

Personally? I'd rather have one continuous (and inconspicuous) shadow line with no caulk than a painted caulk line that's cracked 6 months out of the year, though I've never won that argument with contractors.

[Rich Engelhardt]

George,
I had somewhat the same issue with the kitchen I did @ the rental. I glued some 2x4 scraps to the tops of the cabinets & shot the 2 1/2" 16 ga fasteners into those.
@ the bottom of the crown, where it came in contact with the face frame, I did scissor nail that with 3/4" 23 ga pins.

[George Bokros]

I am going to put 2x4 above the cabinet screwed to the cabinet top from the inside and nail into that but was not sure if it would be effective. I wanted to bevel the 2x to match the spring angle but when I did that there wasn't enough 2x on the top of the cabinet to get the screws to bite.

Good idea on the pin nails into the face frame. Looks like I have a solution.

[Jim Becker]

Ideally, you want a good portion of your nails to hit the structure behind the wallboard. Unless this is unusually large crown, you should be able to "get there" with a 2.5" 15 gage nail from a gun. That, combined with adhesive should keep it up there nicely. "Scissoring" nails a little can help hold while adhesive does its job, but drywall's nature doesn't really allow for any kind of long-term holding power with heavier moldings. Tiny stuff...you might get away with it...but not crown.

[Paul Girouard]

I am going to put 2x4 above the cabinet screwed to the cabinet top from the inside and nail into that but was not sure if it would be effective. I wanted to bevel the 2x to match the spring angle but when I did that there wasn't enough 2x on the top of the cabinet to get the screws to bite.

Good idea on the pin nails into the face frame. Looks like I have a solution.


Use 1 1/8" plywood , or 5/4" Pine stair tread , or double up some 1/2" ply , one edge ripping to the rake angle of the crown, you can make the plywood 6" or 8" wide , wider than you 3 1/2" 2x4 same idea just wider.

If you have 1 1/2" gap to the ceiling , you must have a 3 1/2" -ish wide crown molding , so creating some backing would be a good idea.

You could even rip the 2x4 to 1 1/2" height and attach them 90 degree to the cabinet face , just make sure they are "short" of the back side of the crown , the crown doesn't have to be touching the backing struts , in fact back a little bit 1/8" is better the nail still can reach it, but the backing being set back a hair is better than it sticking out 1/16" so the crown can't "seat" against the cabinet rail.

[George Bokros]

Ideally, you want a good portion of your nails to hit the structure behind the wallboard. Unless this is unusually large crown, you should be able to "get there" with a 2.5" 15 gage nail from a gun. That, combined with adhesive should keep it up there nicely. "Scissoring" nails a little can help hold while adhesive does its job, but drywall's nature doesn't really allow for any kind of long-term holding power with heavier moldings. Tiny stuff...you might get away with it...but not crown.


Jim, on two sides I am running parallel to the ceiling joists and there none in the area I can nail to. Really do not want to use adhesive to the ceiling because of possibly getting some on the ceiling where it would be visible. Maybe a small bead of adhesive along the back edge may work.

Hoping 2 1/2 inch nails in to the 2x4 I am screwing on top of the cabinet top from the inside will reach the 2x4's. The distance from the back of the crown to the top rail is 3/4". That plus the thickness of the crown at `5/8 or 3/4" will leave 1" of the nail into the 2x4.

[sebastian phillips]

What we do in your situation is secure blocking to the drywall with the anchors shown below:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Zip-It-6-Nylon-Jr-Hollow-Wall-Anchor-with-Screw-6-Pack-376225/202243018
Make the blocking from 3/4 material (ply or pine) ripped to the spring angle of the crown, and located just back from where the crown hits the ceiling.
You want to make sure the blocking is back a bit so the crown hits the ceiling rock hard, no interference.
The zip in anchors go in quick, hold well, and are foolproof. Put a little polyurethane PL adhesive on the back of the nailer before securing.
Also put a little PL on the back of the crown before shooting to the blocking. Cheap long term insurance.
Good Luck,
Seb

[Jim Becker]

George, I do appreciate the concern about the adhesive getting where it's not welcome. Using small amounts of the "quick tack" adhesive designed for the purpose, along with having a helper or two should help remediate that. To test to see if those nails will make it to where you need them to be drill a small hole at the approximate angle you need to take until you feel it grab that 2-by and then use a short piece of wire to measure what it will take.

[Larry Edgerton]

That is the way trim is put up in modulars, and they drive down the road. Not something I like but have been backed into it a few times.

[Martin Wasner]

Nailing into drywall is wasting a nail and making more caulk/putty work. I don't know how severe the seasonal change is in Ohio, but down here the caulk is going to crack with the movement of the crown from one season to the next regardless of how many nails you have in it.

Personally? I'd rather have one continuous (and inconspicuous) shadow line with no caulk than a painted caulk line that's cracked 6 months out of the year, though I've never won that argument with contractors.

This. Times a million.

If you want it to go tight, fit well, and do it right. Open up the ceiling and add blocking that you can nail to, and use finish screws when really needed. Other than that nailing into just sheet rock is a waste of time.