Introduction and a few questions....

[Craig Shewmake]

Hello everyone! My name is Craig and I wanted to introduce myself. I have read many threads on here over the years and finally decided to join now that I retired and decided to tinker with a little woodworking in the the garage.

I have a 3 car garage. I am dedicating 1/3 to 1/2 for the hobby. Let me also preface any questions here with a little background. I am a guy in a wheelchair so some of my inquiries could seem a little odd. i.e.. height of some tools, weight, etc. I don't want to leave the wrong impression here though. I have always been athletic and was a world class wheelchair tennis and basketball player that competed in a couple Paralympics for the USA. So even though I am in a chair I am certainly not gimpy. :)

I purchased a Dewalt DWE7491 contractor saw last week. Put it together and got it all dialed in and running. And promptly took it all apart and sent it back! My original thinking was that it would be nice to be able to roll it over in the corner of the garage when not in use and allow me more space. While a nice saw, it is after all a contractor saw, and I instantly knew that it was not going to measure up to my needs. Not to mention, the table top was not flat. I had a hump in the middle that produced a 1/8" gap on either end when laying a straight edge in any direction.

So I am now deciding between the Grizzly G1023RLWX and the G0690. I know, I know, the pros and cons have been discussed add nauseam on many forums. I am heavily leaning towards the G1023RLWX because of the higher horsepower, dust collection shroud, and additional router table. No doubt I will waver back and forth over the next couple of days but I am ordering Monday regardless of the decision! I have no doubts I will be thrilled with either choice.

With all that said, I have a question for anyone with either of these saws. Is the bottom of the base solid? In other words, does it have a flat solid bottom or is it hollow and just the 4 side walls? The reason I ask is with regards to movability. I know you can get mobile stands for them but I keep reading how inadequate many of the offerings seem to be. I came across a site that sells the "Hoverpad" and was thinking that would be ideal for my situation. However, if the base has a hollow bottom then i would need to put a sheet of plywood between it and the saw and I don't want to raise it anymore than the 1" thickness of the Hoverpad. I am already freaking out about a kickback that would take off my head as I am sitting. So height matters!

Does anyone have any experience with the Hoverpads? Or does anyone know of a QUALITY mobile base that has retractable wheels so once the saw is in place I can lower it down on its own foundation and eliminate the 1" gap for mobile bases? I am curious to hear any suggestions.

I sincerely apologize for rambling! I am glad to be a new member of the forum, and am looking forward to contributing in any way I can.

Cheers,

Craig

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Welcome to the Creek Craig! Wade right in, the water's fine!

[David Eisenhauer]

Sorry, I can't help you one ounce with your questions, but do want to say hello and welcome to the forum. From your question (no contractor saw or Grizzly experience for me), it seems you are already thinking this stuff through in a forward thinking fashion. Others will chime in with answers, so just a hello from me.

[John K Jordan]

Craig, I recently searched and found the perfect mobile base (for me). I wanted one with completely retractable wheels to move a milling machine around then set it down tight against the floor.

What I bought was a SawStop industrial saw mobile base. This adds just 1/4" to the height as the saw sits on two 1/4" thick steel straps. The thing reeks of quality and will support 1000 lbs. I got it from Woodcraft.

One reason I got it was the ease of raising the machine. This may not work for you out of the box since it uses a foot pedal to operate a small hydraulic jack built into the base. If you have no leg strength/control you might modify it to use a hand lever and release. Another mod might use power from an air line just like in a 20 ton hydraulic press I saw at Northern Tool.

Another issue for your intended saw is the size of the base. It is sized specifically to fit the base of the SS industrial saw. For me this didn't matter since I'm welding up a heavy milling machine base and can make it any size I want. I don't know if it would fit your intended saw.

I also can't answer about the closed base. My only experience is with my Powermatic saw and the base is closed on the bottom. Perhaps someone with those saws can answer. A call to a dealer should answer that too. If a saw WAS open on the bottom, instead of setting it on a sheet of plywood I would probably cut a steel panel and weld it just inside the cavity so it wouldn't raise the saw. Or fasten the plywood inside.

I don't see where you live. Someone near with some metalworking capability might be glad to help modify things for you.

BTW, I may understand some of the issues you probably deal with. A very good friend lived nearly 50 years with no leg use and in his case, very limited arm/hand strength and control (from a spinal injury). Creative solutions to his mobility and function were sometimes an incredible challenge.

JKJ

[Ben Rivel]

Best base on the market for a table saw is the SawStop industrial mobile base. If you can adapt it to whatever saw you decide to go with that would probably be the best option.

[Craig Shewmake]

Craig, I recently searched and found the perfect mobile base (for me). I wanted one with completely retractable wheels to move a milling machine around then set it down tight against the floor.

What I bought was a SawStop industrial saw mobile base. This adds just 1/4" to the height as the saw sits on two 1/4" thick steel straps. The thing reeks of quality and will support 1000 lbs. I got it from Woodcraft.

One reason I got it was the ease of raising the machine. This may not work for you out of the box since it uses a foot pedal to operate a small hydraulic jack built into the base. If you have no leg strength/control you might modify it to use a hand lever and release. Another mod might use power from an air line just like in a 20 ton hydraulic press I saw at Northern Tool.

Another issue for your intended saw is the size of the base. It is sized specifically to fit the base of the SS industrial saw. For me this didn't matter since I'm welding up a heavy milling machine base and can make it any size I want. I don't know if it would fit your intended saw.

I also can't answer about the closed base. My only experience is with my Powermatic saw and the base is closed on the bottom. Perhaps someone with those saws can answer. A call to a dealer should answer that too. If a saw WAS open on the bottom, instead of setting it on a sheet of plywood I would probably cut a steel panel and weld it just inside the cavity so it wouldn't raise the saw. Or fasten the plywood inside.

I don't see where you live. Someone near with some metalworking capability might be glad to help modify things for you.

BTW, I may understand some of the issues you probably deal with. A very good friend lived nearly 50 years with no leg use and in his case, very limited arm/hand strength and control (from a spinal injury). Creative solutions to his mobility and function were sometimes an incredible challenge.

JKJ

Thanks for the detailed reply. I finally got around to updating my profile with location etc. I only asked about the base because the manufacturer was closed and I figured with so many discussions on that brand of saw that quite a few guys here had them.

That SawStop Industrial looks perfect! And I would save 3/4" over all the other brands. It's 20" x 25 and my saws base is 20.5" x 20.5" So close! :)

I am kind of shocked there aren't more offerings built similar. I would have no problem hooking up a handle to it. I am not keen on the wheel lock on most brands.

Thanks again

[Craig Shewmake]

Best base on the market for a table saw is the SawStop industrial mobile base. If you can adapt it to whatever saw you decide to go with that would probably be the best option.

I agree. It's by far the best looking that I have come across searching today.

[Marshall Mosby]

Welcome Craig, it's always good to have a new member. Please do share your work and any queries regarding the same. People have a lot of experience here.

[glenn bradley]

General Tools used to offer an "Access Line (http://www.rockler.com/how-to/general-tools-access-line-offers-tool-access-aging-disabled-woodworkers/#comment-9891?avad=55963_fc3b9b9b)" of products configured for people with limited range in height and reach. I could not find anything current and the line may have died with their Canadian plant but, it would be worth a call.

[John Lankers]

Welcome to the forum Craig.
What I recommend might make your search for the right saw even more challenging.
Have you considered a small sliding tablesaw instead of a cabinet saw? You could clamp almost any workpiece to the slider and instead of pushing the workpiece through the blade you could be in your wheelchair pushing the slider safely from the side, have better control over the cut and also stay out of the line of potential kickbacks, even long rip cuts are easy on the sliding table.

[Cary Falk]

Craig,
I have the G1023RL and it has a sloped dust pan that makes the cabinet totally enclosed for dust. With that said, it sits on a sheet metal plinth that makes the bottom essentially hollow. Like this cast iron Unisaw one but in steel.
http://www.vintagemachinery.org/classifieds/images/1683-1-z.jpg

I can't help you on the mobile base thing. I make my own because none that I know of have 4 rotating wheels. I store all of my tools in 1/3 of a 3 car garage. It is like a jigsaw puzzle. This is an old picture and some of the tools have changed but the puzzle stays the same.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297/caryincamas/DSC_0282.jpg

[Ben Rivel]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I finally got around to updating my profile with location etc. I only asked about the base because the manufacturer was closed and I figured with so many discussions on that brand of saw that quite a few guys here had them.

That SawStop Industrial looks perfect! And I would save 3/4" over all the other brands. It's 20" x 25 and my saws base is 20.5" x 20.5" So close! :)

I am kind of shocked there aren't more offerings built similar. I would have no problem hooking up a handle to it. I am not keen on the wheel lock on most brands.

Thanks again
There is a conversion kit that allows the Industrial Mobile Base to me used with the PCS SawStop as opposed to the ICS SawStop which it is designed for. Perhaps that would size it down enough for your saw. Check it out. I think its only an additional $30 or so as its just a couple bars and bolts.

[Craig Shewmake]

Welcome to the forum Craig.
What I recommend might make your search for the right saw even more challenging.
Have you considered a small sliding tablesaw instead of a cabinet saw? You could clamp almost any workpiece to the slider and instead of pushing the workpiece through the blade you could be in your wheelchair pushing the slider safely from the side, have better control over the cut and also stay out of the line of potential kickbacks, even long rip cuts are easy on the sliding table.

Just looked at some. WOW. That would be so much safer for me because I was/am definitely concerned with rip cuts of any length knowing I have limited reach for pushing material through. But damn, they are expensive! It's like buying a new car. Oh you want the leather seats, that only comes with package A and is an additional 3k. Oh and you want to tow with it, that only comes with package B and is an additional 5k. LOL

These sliders really would solve a lot of my safety concerns by allowing me to be on the side and out of harms way. Not friendly on space limitations through. I really didn't know they existed. Darn you! :)

[John K Jordan]

That SawStop Industrial looks perfect! And I would save 3/4" over all the other brands. It's 20" x 25 and my saws base is 20.5" x 20.5" So close!

I'll have to measure when I go to the shop to see if there is somehow an extra 1/2" there or if it could be modified. I do see that the pro SawStop saw appears to have a similar mobile base built in.

I didn't think about the slider option. I added a Robland sliding table to one to my Powermatic and it is perfect for cross cutting. I see SawStop offers an add-on slider for $1000.

JKJ

[Frederick Skelly]

Welcome Craig! Glad to have you with us!
Fred

[Craig Shewmake]

I am glad I decided to join and thanks to everyone chiming in. Now you guys got me thinking. Not sure if thats a good thing or not. Kidding aside, I really am concerned about the safety aspect due to sitting down and having my head in play. I had seen the General Access threads but could not find anymore info on their products other than they were hideously overpriced for what is essentially shorter versions of their tools. And they seem to have disappeared which isn't surprising since its such a small niche market.

I have always just adapted and been able to do just about anything with a little ingenuity with regards to the disability. Easy solutions for band saws, drill press, router tables etc are to buy decent bench top models and create stands for them. The table saw obviously is a different beast. That's why i originally bought the Dewalt contractor saw. So I could build a base to a comfortable height. But I found the quality to be lacking compared to cabinet saws and know I would not be happy in the long run. I like to buy and cry once!

Ideally I would like my table saw table to be around 30" tall but figured I would be stuck with the average table height around 34" plus whatever increase a mobile stand would create which is usually about 1" or so. That is just plain scary to me when thinking of a kickback or other slip ups. The sliding table suggestion would eliminate my other concern about being over or too close to the blade when pushing material through. I honestly had never seen them before the suggestion. Or maybe I had but those exorbitant prices scared me. Either way, I hadn't considered it an option before.

Since you guys got me researching for alternative solutions I did find one guy who removed the base (like the one pictured above) from his Unisaw and then welded a plate back in for stability. He added the sliding table extension and was good to go. Doing something like that would put a TS at a nice height for me. SawStop also has slider extensions for their saws but their base looks like its solid from top to bottom so I couldn't reduce any height like I could on the Unisaw or Grizzly. Of course cost is always a factor since this is a hobby and not a profession. Much like my guitar playing hobby, I can see this spiraling out of control. LOL

I know I am probably way overthinking this but hey, I'd rather overthink now as opposed to saying "why didn't i think of that?" while getting an appendage sewn back on.

You guys are great and I thank you for all the suggestions.

Craig

[Bill McNiel]

Since you guys got me researching for alternative solutions I did find one guy who removed the base (like the one pictured above) from his Unisaw and then welded a plate back in for stability. He added the sliding table extension and was good to go. Doing something like that would put a TS at a nice height for me.

Exactly what I was thinking. I just checked my Unisaw and the easily removable base/plinth is approx 4" tall. Removing this would lower the saw table to 30". Much more could be cut off if you have the metal working skills or know someone who does. I would suggest that you really focus on getting all your tools at a comfortable and safe height. Plan and solve for the worst possible scenario and you radically increase the probability of success and enjoyment.

Regards - Bill

[Craig Shewmake]

Exactly what I was thinking. I just checked my Unisaw and the easily removable base/plinth is approx 4" tall. Removing this would lower the saw table to 30". Much more could be cut off if you have the metal working skills or know someone who does. I would suggest that you really focus on getting all your tools at a comfortable and safe height. Plan and solve for the worst possible scenario and you radically increase the probability of success and enjoyment.

Regards - Bill

30" height would be just about perfect. I totally agree with you on planning for the worse. Thats why all the suggestions above have me completely rethinking what route to go with quality saw, easiest height modification, and slider table as the driving factors.

That you guys actually are going out and measuring and looking at your saws for me is astonishing to say the least. And very much appreciated. What a great community atmosphere you have here.

[John K Jordan]

30" height would be just about perfect.

I measured the SawStop industrial mobile base again and it can't be stretched to fit 20-1/2". Looks like 20-1/8" max and that's with removing the padding.

I looked at the plinth and cabinet of my Powermatic and the plinth is larger than the cabinet. Removing it would drop the cabinet right into the hydraulic mobile base. Other saws may also be made like this.

But the idea of removing the base made be look again. Some quality time with the plasma cutter and I think I could lower the table as much as 12" and still clear the motor at full tilt. Would require some rework of the dust collection ports and welding a panel to close the bottom. With some care it could be put back together some day if needed.

JKJ

[Joe Beaulieu]

Hey Craig

First - welcome - this is a fantastic board for help in all things WW and you will not find a nicer bunch of people anywhere.

I own a Sawstop PCS. While I recognize it is expensive, you should really consider buying one. The general consensus is, even taking away the tremendous benefit of the safety technology, the saw is one of the best , if not the best made saws in the price group. However I think if you are not using it in the traditional way, the saw may even be a better fit because of the safety feature. If you are reaching from a sitting position you may be more likely to contact the blade. I would imagine your hands are even more important to you than most people. It really does work. Watch the videos on their site.

I have a kind of opposite problem to you with tools. I am 6' 10" tall and I have had to adapt my stationary tools to fit my body size. I built small platforms to raise my bench and a few other pieces up about 9" or so. That makes all the difference in the world to me. I imagine you have considered this, and if this is an absurd idea forgive me, but could you make platforms in the space around your tools to raise your chair up to where you would like to be? I too have my shop in a 2 car garage. The amount of floor space left over after you populate the garage with machines, cabinets, and a bench isn't a lot. Maybe it would be easier to raise up the floor. Just a thought. That makes it unnecessary to modify your saw cabinet etc. You could make the platforms moveable, so if you wanted to move the saw you could. I will tell you that once I had my layout done in my garage, I have not moved the saw once in 12 years. Nor many of the other tools. Might be worth considering.

Welcome again Craig, and good luck with whatever you decide.

Joe

[David Eisenhauer]

As an alternative to you original question and the good answers from knowledgeable folks concerning the machinery issues, have you considered perhaps looking into the hand-tool method of woodworking? An advantage to that method I can see is that the main activity takes place on a workbench that is built to the specific height best suited for you (and with underneath clearance for chair approach). The bench height will always stay the same optimum height and location, plus, it solves the safety issues of pushing things past whirling blades at head-height as well as a host of other issues concerning noise, dust, etc. that appeals to many of us. I can see your upper body strength as a real plus that others may not have, especially when just starting out. The hand-tool route is definitely easier on the wallet for starting out and the only real downside is falling down the never-ending "which way is the best sharpening method" or the ever-popular "bevel up vs bevel down hand plane iron" use rabbit holes that stir the masses to foaming-mouth frenzy at times. Many, many folks here use a combination of machines and hand tools and many start with machines and then slowly move to more hand tool work over the years. It is all good, no way better than others, but something to consider.

[Bryan Lisowski]

I know you are looking for a cabinet saw, but a contractor saw like the ridgid or even the saw stop might be better. You could make a stand to fit your needs. The other thought I had was maybe a good bandsaw would be better, just thinking of the safety factor.

[Craig Shewmake]

Hey Craig

First - welcome - this is a fantastic board for help in all things WW and you will not find a nicer bunch of people anywhere.

I own a Sawstop PCS. While I recognize it is expensive, you should really consider buying one. The general consensus is, even taking away the tremendous benefit of the safety technology, the saw is one of the best , if not the best made saws in the price group. However I think if you are not using it in the traditional way, the saw may even be a better fit because of the safety feature. If you are reaching from a sitting position you may be more likely to contact the blade. I would imagine your hands are even more important to you than most people. It really does work. Watch the videos on their site.

I have a kind of opposite problem to you with tools. I am 6' 10" tall and I have had to adapt my stationary tools to fit my body size. I built small platforms to raise my bench and a few other pieces up about 9" or so. That makes all the difference in the world to me. I imagine you have considered this, and if this is an absurd idea forgive me, but could you make platforms in the space around your tools to raise your chair up to where you would like to be? I too have my shop in a 2 car garage. The amount of floor space left over after you populate the garage with machines, cabinets, and a bench isn't a lot. Maybe it would be easier to raise up the floor. Just a thought. That makes it unnecessary to modify your saw cabinet etc. You could make the platforms moveable, so if you wanted to move the saw you could. I will tell you that once I had my layout done in my garage, I have not moved the saw once in 12 years. Nor many of the other tools. Might be worth considering.

Welcome again Craig, and good luck with whatever you decide.

Joe

I absolutely did consider making platforms. And I would only need to do so for the Table Saw. But when moving the saw out of the way I would need to also move the platforms and that would be a pain so I am more inclined to lower the saw. Resale value is not an issue. I am also starting to think, like you, once I get it situated I probably wont be moving it as much as I imagine.

I really do like the Sawstop PCS for safety reasons and as you noted. It would be ideal with the sliding table add on. But that addition is 1K and added to high cost of the PCS you are in the Hammer K3 price range.

So many paths that I could take. I have a headache. lol

Thanks for the reply

Craig

[Ben Rivel]

I absolutely did consider making platforms. And I would only need to do so for the Table Saw. But when moving the saw out of the way I would need to also move the platforms and that would be a pain so I am more inclined to lower the saw. Resale value is not an issue. I am also starting to think, like you, once I get it situated I probably wont be moving it as much as I imagine.

I really do like the Sawstop PCS for safety reasons and as you noted. It would be ideal with the sliding table add on. But that addition is 1K and added to high cost of the PCS you are in the Hammer K3 price range.

So many paths that I could take. I have a headache. lol

Thanks for the reply

Craig
Welcome to the modern world of tool shopping and forums. The amount of information out there is mind boggling as is the amount of mis-information and marketing control. I am almost done outfitting an entire shop with new tools and it has taken me over a year just in research and learning and paying for all these things. There is just so much to research and study its amazing. Kept me busy though :)

[Craig Shewmake]

Welcome to the modern world of tool shopping and forums. The amount of information out there is mind boggling as is the amount of mis-information and marketing control. I am almost done outfitting an entire shop with new tools and it has taken me over a year just in research and learning and paying for all these things. There is just so much to research and study its amazing. Kept me busy though :)

You aren't kidding there. I have been researching for mere days and my head is spinning.

I really like the idea of some kind of slider so I can stay to the left of the saw and not have any issues with balance while pushing material through. The big sliders and Euro brands are just way too much money for my meager needs. Ideally after the minimal research I have done the ultimate saw for me would be something like the Sawstop PCS with the slider attachment all lowered 4 inches. I would have both the safety provided by the slider along with their blade technology. But that is huge dollars too and I can just imagine the feedback and rolling eyes I would get here taking a plasma cutter to the base of a new PCS to lop off 4 inches. :) Not to mention probably voiding the warranty.

[Ben Rivel]

You aren't kidding there. I have been researching for mere days and my head is spinning.

I really like the idea of some kind of slider so I can stay to the left of the saw and not have any issues with balance while pushing material through. The big sliders and Euro brands are just way too much money for my meager needs. Ideally after the minimal research I have done the ultimate saw for me would be something like the Sawstop PCS with the slider attachment all lowered 4 inches. I would have both the safety provided by the slider along with their blade technology. But that is huge dollars too and I can just imagine the feedback and rolling eyes I would get here taking a plasma cutter to the base of a new PCS to lop off 4 inches. :) Not to mention probably voiding the warranty.
Just as another thought, on the other side of the same coin, have you considered laying out your shop such that you have a ramp to raise YOU up instead of lowering your tools? Maybe some sort of central run with enough room to turn your chair around and having the tools on either side of that?

[Craig Shewmake]

Yes and its a valid solution. My thinking was that the only tool I would need to lower is the TS so I will no doubt waver back and forth some more.

[Craig Shewmake]

As an alternative to you original question and the good answers from knowledgeable folks concerning the machinery issues, have you considered perhaps looking into the hand-tool method of woodworking? An advantage to that method I can see is that the main activity takes place on a workbench that is built to the specific height best suited for you (and with underneath clearance for chair approach). The bench height will always stay the same optimum height and location, plus, it solves the safety issues of pushing things past whirling blades at head-height as well as a host of other issues concerning noise, dust, etc. that appeals to many of us. I can see your upper body strength as a real plus that others may not have, especially when just starting out. The hand-tool route is definitely easier on the wallet for starting out and the only real downside is falling down the never-ending "which way is the best sharpening method" or the ever-popular "bevel up vs bevel down hand plane iron" use rabbit holes that stir the masses to foaming-mouth frenzy at times. Many, many folks here use a combination of machines and hand tools and many start with machines and then slowly move to more hand tool work over the years. It is all good, no way better than others, but something to consider.

All valid points! One of the reasons I started down this table saw researching route was I was ripping the edge off a 80" tall door with a circular saw. I clamped a board to use as a rail so all was good. But moving along the the length I had to stop, reposition, and move on. Of course I have little blemishes where that happened. So I said, "I'm getting a table saw" and I could just push it through from the rear. But of course thats where I started thinking safety and kickbacks etc. It's a vicious circle I tell ya. :) Thats why, after the suggestions here, I am enamored with a decent sliding table mechanism.

I am actually surprised that the manufacturers don't make some type of modular bases where you could add or subtract modules to put your table at a specific height. Like Joe above stated, he has the opposite situation dealing with his height.

Thanks for taking the time with your suggestions. I really do appreciate everyones willingness to chime in on my trivial concerns.

Craig