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DARRELL WOOTTON
09-16-2016, 3:14 PM
Speaking to a Trotec salesman, he advised that their laser tube in their new machines never lost any power over time. We were told that the Laser would produce the same results at 10,000 hours as it did on its first day of use. Obviously this assumes no other mechanical issues affected the laser. He said that it could break down but we would never have to adjust the power level due to wear on the tube. We were surprised by this and would welcome any feedback from Trotec customers. Have you heard the same?

From what I have read I believed that all CO2 lasers lost efficiency over time due to leaks and usage.

Thanks

Daz....

Gary Hair
09-16-2016, 3:39 PM
I believe that claim is based on the ceramic tube that they use. From what I understand it is sealed in such a way that it won't leak and there is something about the internal parts being isolated from exposure to *something* that breaks them down. In a standard tube those same internal parts degrade and eventually fail. This is based on my recollection (a bit sketchy) and is probably close to correct but not exactly the right answer. I'm sure some of the more technical folks can splain things gooder...

edit: I found this on the Trotec website
https://www.troteclaser.com/en/laser-machines/laser-accessories/ceramicore/

Kev Williams
09-16-2016, 4:09 PM
I hope they've actually tested one for over 10,000 hours before making that claim. (quickie ref, that's 417 days non-stop around the clock) :)

But it's likely true anyway- My LS900 is nearly 13 years old, and I swear this is true, after changing the silver mirror over the lens for a gold one, it actually picked UP power. Not a ton, but the settings that used to barely cut thru 1/8" Rowmark in two passes, after the new mirror it cut WELL thru in 2 passes. I was able to speed the machine up 1% and still get thru. Original settings were in place from year one, and the faster setting still works fine.

In short, my laser hasn't yet lost a step. knock on my head ... ;)

Dave Sheldrake
09-16-2016, 4:32 PM
On paper perfectly possible, in real world application......still possible but I'd be skeptical without long term blind and multi testing.

Keith Winter
09-16-2016, 5:19 PM
Great machines, but that's not real world provable or true. It's all theoretical. Buy the Trotec because it's a superior built machine, not because of a tube life promise. I think you will see similar tube life across US brands. Build quality and engraving speed is what Trotec really has an edge in.

Mark Sipes
09-16-2016, 5:49 PM
I have no reason to not trust a number of hours that large if not larger. Remember they are talking actual hours in the fire mode not machine on and travel time. My current Synrad tube (Trotec) has been firing for 4,384 hr 9 min 21 sec while the machine has been "ON" for 22,697 hr 54 min 1 sec That is with a full recharge by Synrad in 2004.

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Keith Winter
09-16-2016, 6:15 PM
I have no reason to not trust a number of hours that large if not larger. Remember they are talking actual hours in the fire mode not machine on and travel time. My current Synrad tube (Trotec) has been firing for 4,384 hr 9 min 21 sec while the machine has been "ON" for 22,697 hr 54 min 1 sec That is with a full recharge by Synrad in 2004.

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Mark if your tube was charged by synrad you have a metal tube ;) So you are really attesting to the life of a metal tube not Trotecs current tubes. They didn't start ceramic tubes until a few years ago.

Mark Sipes
09-16-2016, 6:23 PM
Mark if your tube was charged by synrad you have a metal tube ;) So you are really attesting to the life of a metal tube not Trotecs current tubes. They didn't start ceramic tubes until a few years ago.


Oh so now they are sacrificing Quality and Integrity I see your point....!! Thanks for the update


Posted from my Samsung Note 7

Keith I am confused why you purchased not one, but two Trotecs if you did not believe they produced a quality machine.
I am reading your posts correct or have you been having nothing but problems with you machines.

By the way the Synrad rep stated there is no reason a tube should not last at least 2x the 10k hours for a metal tube. I will be long gone if that is the case..........so 10K for a ceramic is again believable and I an sure the fourm members will keep us up to date.......What is a glass tube good for 500 hrs..???

Keith Winter
09-16-2016, 7:25 PM
I think you misunderstood, I said to buy a Trotec because of the build quality....



Oh so now they are sacrificing Quality and Integrity I see your point....!! Thanks for the update


Posted from my Samsung Note 7

Keith I am confused why you purchased not one, but two Trotecs if you did not believe they produced a quality machine.
I am reading your posts correct or have you been having nothing but problems with you machines.

By the way the Synrad rep stated there is no reason a tube should not last at least 2x the 10k hours for a metal tube. I will be long gone if that is the case..........so 10K for a ceramic is again believable and I an sure the fourm members will keep us up to date.......What is a glass tube good for 500 hrs..???

DARRELL WOOTTON
09-17-2016, 5:18 AM
Thanks, I have had a look at Trotec's video explaining the concept on their ceramicore, seems plausible but only time will tell. From memory the Epilog salesman thought their machines tube would have a realistic life of 3-5 years depending on power and hours used but they could go on for longer if used at a lower watts etc.

I have now had demo's on Trotec and Epilog 60W machines, will be off to see a chinese machine next week.

Daz...

Dave Sheldrake
09-17-2016, 7:14 AM
.What is a glass tube good for 500 hrs..???

I've had Glass tubes last from EFR last 7 years, I've had a Synrad last 18 months, then again I've also had a glass SLC last 3 years (they are 10x the price of a normal glass tube), my old epilog RF tube lasted 6 years

It's become an urban expectation that glass tubes die quickly because they are glass, they more often die quickly because the end user over drives them or doesn't supply the right cooling.

Iradion are very well known for their lasing resonators and if any company can back up that claim it will be them.

Mike Null
09-17-2016, 9:31 AM
Having come out of a manufacturing background, I can assure you that Iradion tested this concept for the required time and that Trotec verified the results and ran intensive tests of their own before committing to this component. They would not risk their reputation using an untested component.

My own experience with metal tubes varies some but, on the whole, it's been quite good. First were 2 100 watt Epilog machines with several year old Synrad tubes. Both were still working when the machines were retired. My first laser, a ULS 25 watt, lasted into the 36th month before the tube had to be replaced under warranty. The replacement was still operating well when I sold the machine several years later. My Trotec tube lasted 8 years before having a re-manufacture done. That tube is into its third year with no issues. I have a friend with two 75 watt Epilog machines that are more than 10 years old and his tubes are still going strong and getting a heavy workout everyday.

Scott Marquez
09-17-2016, 10:23 AM
I just watched the video and am impressed with what their doing.
Have that Rep put it in writing that they will warranty the tube for 10,000 hours. Like others have said, it sounds good in theory, but that will tell you their true confidence.
I'm interested to hear the results.
Scott

Dave Sheldrake
09-17-2016, 1:15 PM
The only bit I'm not sold on is the "No loss of power" over 10,000 hours. Laser resonators fail for a lot of reasons and not all of them are caused by the joints in the system.

Now if it means a 30 watt tube will produce 30 watts after 10,000 hours, that is one thing, but I'd be more inclined to think it means a tube sold as a 30 watt (that likely starts as nearer a 40) still produces 30 after 10,000 hours that would make more sense. Even VERY expensive lab lasers lose power as do huge industrials

Chris Bratton
09-19-2016, 11:39 AM
I think Dave is correct. My new 120 watt Trotec is at 143 watts full power.

DARRELL WOOTTON
09-19-2016, 1:11 PM
It did seem a bold statement that 'their new machines never lost any power over time' so I questioned him over the claim at least 3 times because I was aware of the issue of reduction in power over time that effects tubes.

My wife was also present at the demo and when this was discussed, she was surprised at the claim. I had been telling her since I started my research into laser cutters that a machine would need replacement glass tubes or have to get the metal tubes re-gassed etc. This is what prompted me to post this thread.

To be fair, after he explained about not losing any power over time I put a number of scenario's to him, one of them was: so if I was to run the laser at full power for 10,000 hours we would not see a reduction in power output and also the example, if it took 'X' percent of power to cut through some material, that I would not have to increase the power to do the same job years down the line, he agreed. Just to confirm he did not make the claim of 10,000 hours, I put the scenario to him of 10,000 hours and he agreed.

I have watched the video link but being a novice on lasers I cant really argue whether its possible or not.

Keith Outten
09-19-2016, 9:22 PM
Part of the answer to long life of the new ceramic tubes is that the ceramic never contaminates the gas in the tube.
This is inevitable when using metal tubes, it will happen sooner or later.
Glass tubes will leak, this is also an inevitable situation.