Plovdiv Band Saws...Anyone?

[Mike Kees]

I have a question,about bandsaws. Have you ever heard of Plovdiv bandsaws ? From what I have found out apparently made in Bulgaria. I have found one that is a 32 inch monster. C type frame massive cast iron construction it will probaly take a crane to move it. Anyways thoughts or info would be welcome, thanks Mike.

[peter gagliardi]

The few pictures I have seen indicate a quality unit. A heavy cast iron C frame should mean a better than good chance that it is a higher quality machine than the welded steel frames of today.

[Jamie Buxton]

If you're thinking about resawing veneer, check the resaw height on that saw. That's one way in which new saws are considerably better than the old cast-iron ones -- styles change.

And, of course, ask whether that big saw is 3-phase. Those old big ones generally are. If you don't have 3-phase in your shop, you can buy a converter, but it does add to your budget.

[John TenEyck]

That's a curious comment. Cast iron has less than half the Young's Modulus of carbon steel. The frame would have to be much larger in cross section to have equivalent stiffness, the key factor in tensioning the blade with minimal frame bending. Pound for pound it's hard to beat a well engineered, modern steel BS.

John

[David Kumm]

Is saw direct drive or Belt? I'm not familiar with Plovdiv but old eastern block machines were often very good. Heavily built, maybe not quite as refined, but bandsaws are simple machines. You want the motor to be good, especially if direct drive. Three phase isn't a deal breaker given the cost of vfds. While steel is more stiff, the old cast iron saws were over engineered and because cast iron absorbs vibration they could run much faster than steel saws. Steel saws need heavy wheels to compensate somewhat. If you find a steel saw that is well made and overengineered you will be well served but they are not better for resawing. I've used both and now run 20,30, and 36 cast iron. It's obvious I'm biased.

Look at tires as they likely will need changing. Bobby and Woodworkers Tool Works is a master at that. Any vibration is probably due to wheel imbalance which can be fixed. Check trunnions and castings for cracks. Dave

[peter gagliardi]

That's a curious comment. Cast iron has less than half the Young's Modulus of carbon steel. The frame would have to be much larger in cross section to have equivalent stiffness, the key factor in tensioning the blade with minimal frame bending. Pound for pound it's hard to beat a well engineered, modern steel BS.

John

Certainly good steel bandsaws can be made. However, I am willing to bet the best, smoothest running and cutting machines you will find are cast iron. It absorbs vibration better than any other type of machine I have owned, including some of my Martin stuff.

Manufacturers went to steel for 1 simple reason- cost.

[Erik Loza]

Certainly good steel bandsaws can be made. However, I am willing to bet the best, smoothest running and cutting machines you will find are cast iron. It absorbs vibration better than any other type of machine I have owned, including some of my Martin stuff.

Manufacturers went to steel for 1 simple reason- cost.

I agree but will add that if we're talking about Martin, there is at least as much concrete in a Martin machine as there is steel. It's funny: I have customers ask me once in a while if SCM uses concrete in their machines. Which they do, on a number of sliding table saws. The way folks ask that question, it seems to be framed that this makes the machine cheap or something. Martin uses more concrete than anyone and look what they charge?

Erik

[John TenEyck]

I think manufacturers went to steel because it's easier to work with, can be used in simpler, lighter designs with no loss in stiffness, yields a machine with equal performance in a smaller package, costs less to ship, has no aging problems like cast iron can and, yes, costs less to produce. To me, that's a winner. Of course mass is your friend when dealing with vibration but so is good engineering using modern design/testing tools, and there is a practical limit beyond which it doesn't matter and many steel bandsaws are well below that threshold. My new Grizzly bandsaw easily passes the nickel test; I'm sure the really high end machines are even smoother, not that it matters from a practical standpoint.

I've got nothing against an old CI machine; I have a couple. But I have them because they were cheap, not because they were necessarily superior to a modern steel machine.

John

[Mike Kees]

I am not sure about the direct drive or belt question. As of now I have not seen this saw in person. My info is from two pictures on a ad. It is a three phase 7.5 h.p. motor, 16.5 resaw and 32 inch wheels. The table is absolutely massive it looks like somewhere in the 40''x40'' range overall . That really describes the whole saw MASSIVE.

[David Kumm]

off track but the move to steel was not without controversy back in the 70s and 80s. Steel bases started out in the 3/4-1" range and then worked down to what we see now. Some will argue the new Martins are more smooth than the old and some with say the cast iron machines were the best. Tough to compare as most cast iron machines are at least 40 years old and new are full of electronics. Hofmann ( maybe one other- Joe Calhoon knows ) still makes some cast iron machines and they are considered above Martin by many. Few want the liability or backlash of a foundry so steel is preferable from a cost and environmental standpoint, but not from a build view.

There were few 32" saws built here ( Northfield ) but 740 or 760mm were common in Europe. The resaw sounds about right as does the table. 36x36 was a common size here. 1000x1000mm would make sense. Dave

[peter gagliardi]

Dave, the other company you refer to is probably Utis, a French firm still building machines with cast iron bases. Neither Utis, nor Hofmann I believe are directly available here in the states. Of course, nowadays a determined individual has many options.
Joe definitely knows more about the Euro stuff.

[Van Huskey]

I have seen exactly one Plovdiv and it was in a German shop. The general build quality reminded me of Northfield (so not quite an Oliver or Yates American but a long way from Harbor Freight). The thing to remember is bandsaws are very simple machines and if an old cast survivor still runs properly it will likely do so for 20 hobbiest lifetimes. The only real issue with big ole iron (that has all the parts and needs nothing short of bearings and other easily sourceable parts) is just getting it from A to B (assuming B has concrete floors and the ceiling height and general space to accomodate it) and dealing with the electrical concerns.

My first question with a 7.5hp motor is how you plan to power it. If you have that covered then the question is the motor, if it is direct drive make sure it is running correctly, having to have a large motor rebuilt can cost a significant chunk of change when you are able to find the right motor shop to do the work.

It all boils down to the condition of the saw, whether you willing to deal with the electrical requirements and if you are willing to deal with the moving and space requirements of a large cast saw.

[David Kumm]

What Van said. If planning on an RPC kkep in mind a direct drive motor will pull more amps than a typical and the saw will be hard starting. I wouldn't be surprised if the FLA is in the 25 amp range.

Peter, Utis is correct. Dave

[Mike Kees]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I guess that what I need to do is figure out what I want. I want one more bandsaw,no more upgrades. I want to be able to cut up logs for lumber 12'' diameter or less. I want to be able to resaw vener. I want quality, stiff,stiff frame,solid build. This thing needs to be able to cut wood well. Now I know everyone will say buy a minimax or laguna LT italian but I can't afford those machines new. I live in Alberta and they run in the 5000+ range here. Grizzly Go636 interests me ,but I am not sure if it is or can be CSA approved. I am a full time carpenter so this won't be hobbiest use only. Of all the saws that I have looked at my favorite is a Meber SR 600. Pure utility cutting machine without any bells and whistles, that's what I want. So what other saws should I watch for? Can we please start with a list of used and go from there. I have concrete floors in my shop and 16' high ceilings. Thanks,Mike.

[Mike Kees]

The Plovdiv is 6 hours away so I was trying to figure out what anyone knew about them before I drove all that way. Van ,your point about the motor is right, I only have single phase power. Needed 20 grand more for three phase... I really don't care if the saw I end up with is cast or steel frame as long as it cuts. Currently I own a steel city 18''. It works pretty well and everything is adjustable,however the frame when viewed from the side does not line up. It flexes when I pull on the guide post with my other hand on the table. So looking to move up.

[Jamie Buxton]

... I only have single phase power. Needed 20 grand more for three phase....

A VFD for 7.5 hp will not cost you anything like 20 grand. It won't be dirt cheap, but it sure won't be that costly.

[David Kumm]

Meber saws were at or just below Centauro in Build and strength. ACM made a lighter saw called Star 400,500,600 mm which are comparable to Meber. Any Centauro in the 600-800mm range, ACM 640 or larger ( heavier series were x40 increments ) or Wadkin, Robinson, or American cast iron would also serve you. If you don't have three phase power you will need to investigate the cost of a rotary converter ( make or buy ) and include in your cost. Most used machines of any size will be three phase and in Canada 550 volt is as common as 240 which would require a converter too. Given your desire to cut both logs and veneer, I'd not go smaller than an ACM 640, Centauro 600, or 30" old iron. There are a few steel saws in the 18" range that might suffice but few and only the most expensive. Dave

EDIT Bursgreen bandsaws are also Wadkin and can be found in Canada. Go over to canadianwoodworking.com and look at vintage machines to learn more about saws available in Canada. Those guys are very knowledgeable about old machines.

[Mike Kees]

Meber saws were at or just below Centauro in Build and strength. ACM made a lighter saw called Star 400,500,600 mm which are comparable to Meber. Any Centauro in the 600-800mm range, ACM 640 or larger ( heavier series were x40 increments ) or Wadkin, Robinson, or American cast iron would also serve you. If you don't have three phase power you will need to investigate the cost of a rotary converter ( make or buy ) and include in your cost. Most used machines of any size will be three phase and in Canada 550 volt is as common as 240 which would require a converter too. Given your desire to cut both logs and veneer, I'd not go smaller than an ACM 640, Centauro 600, or 30" old iron. There are a few steel saws in the 18" range that might suffice but few and only the most expensive. Dave

EDIT Bursgreen bandsaws are also Wadkin and can be found in Canada. Go over to canadianwoodworking.com and look at vintage machines to learn more about saws available in Canada. Those guys are very knowledgeable about old machines.
Thanks David this is the kind of list I was hoping for. 20,000 was the cost to hard wire my shop for three phase.