Choosing between Epilog and Universal for a first machine

[ludovic chenaux]

Hello :)
I'd like to start a business in Switzerland (cut and engrave 3mm PMMA/MDF) and I need your advices for my first laser machine.

I had first a 5000€ budget and after many searches I realized that it was far not enough for a serious and reliable tool.
Now after several negociations with some dealers (and a big increase of my budget) I have 3 choices :

1 - Epilog Mini 40W (18"x12", servo motors, air assist, engraving table, cutting table, linear encoders...) with 3 years warranty (laser tube and machine) and a G30 filter table from Germany.

2 - for around the same price Universal Laser Versalaser 3.50 40W (24"x12", stepper motors, air assist, engraving table, cutting table...) with 3 years warranty (laser tube and machine) and a Bofa base 1 filter table (UK).

3 - for 2200€ more than the 2 others Epilog Mini + 40W (24"x12"...same as Mini) with 3 years warranty (laser tube and machine) and a G30 filter table from Germany.


Steppers vs servos ?
Reliability of the 2 brands ?
Which costs the least for parts replacement ?
Speed ?
Quality ?
Epilog vs Universal Drivers ? (I use Illustrator CC and Epilog seems to be designed for CorelDraw)
Limits with 18" area compared to the 24" ?


It seems the good deal is the ULS but I tried only the Epilog Mini+ (unfortunately the 2200€ extra is 2200€ beyond my extended budget but if you think it really worth the price I can deal with it).
Which one would you recommend and why ?



Thank you very much :)

[Rich Harman]

I would consider a Trotec as well. I think you can get a Sawmill Creek discount.

[Keith Downing]

Hello :)
I'd like to start a business in Switzerland (cut and engrave 3mm PMMA/MDF) and I need your advices for my first laser machine.

I had first a 5000€ budget and after many searches I realized that it was far not enough for a serious and reliable tool.
Now after several negociations with some dealers (and a big increase of my budget) I have 3 choices :

1 - Epilog Mini 40W (18"x12", servo motors, air assist, engraving table, cutting table, linear encoders...) with 3 years warranty (laser tube and machine) and a G30 filter table from Germany.

2 - for around the same price Universal Laser Versalaser 3.50 40W (24"x12", stepper motors, air assist, engraving table, cutting table...) with 3 years warranty (laser tube and machine) and a Bofa base 1 filter table (UK).

3 - for 2200€ more than the 2 others Epilog Mini + 40W (24"x12"...same as Mini) with 3 years warranty (laser tube and machine) and a G30 filter table from Germany.


Steppers vs servos ?
Reliability of the 2 brands ?
Which costs the least for parts replacement ?
Speed ?
Quality ?
Epilog vs Universal Drivers ? (I use Illustrator CC and Epilog seems to be designed for CorelDraw)
Limits with 18" area compared to the 24" ?


It seems the good deal is the ULS but I tried only the Epilog Mini+ (unfortunately the 2200€ extra is 2200€ beyond my extended budget but if you think it really worth the price I can deal with it).
Which one would you recommend and why ?



Thank you very much :)

Think you're not getting a lot of responses because you're asking a question that: 1. Has been asked a lot on these forums already (try the search feature) and 2. Not a ton of people here have used both the Epilog Mini and the Universal you highlighted.

Can't say I blame you for asking though given the cost of the purchase. Just thought I'd give you a heads up.

I don't run either, so I can't offer much help myself. What I can throw in though, is that the general consensus is to get the largest, most powerful machine you think you could end up needing and can reasonably afford. No one ever really complains later they wish they hadn't bought such an amazing machine to start with.

Also, I don't know what your options are there (Switzerland I'm assuming) but I know around here in the states there are usually some used machines available at about 50-60% what you would pay for a new machine. That might be another option for stretching your budget. Or financing the machine if you can get a business line of credit.

[Keith Downing]

In case you're not having much success navigating the search feature, here are two pretty active threads that talk about some of the good and bad of the epilog, trotec, and universal lasers from earlier this year:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?241982-Trotec-VS-Epilog-(yes-another-thread)

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?242202-Universal-vs-Trotec

[John Noell]

Be sure to have them cut a piece of the PMMA/MDF to show you what 40 watts can do. I got by for years with 45 watts (an original Mini 18) but I am now enjoying what a bit more power can do. If I was starting over, I would buy two Chinese lasers instead of one Mini. I also had several negative interactions with Epilog tech support. Many will swear by them but not me. Yes, I did get some apologies, afterwards. But they still stuck me with a $1,000 board even though it was their driver that was at fault. Never again.

[Kev Williams]

All I can offer is this:

I bought a 5 year old New Hermes branded ULS from my NH rep in '02. He used it daily at his shop since new, plus it got hauled to every trade show in the country and demo'd during that first 5 years. I got it with a new tube. (there was nothing wrong with the old one, my rep just changed it out for me)

I used it daily until a year ago, and sold it to my BIL.

About 4 years ago I changed the tube, simply because a replacement became available cheap. There was nothing wrong with the second tube.

My BIL has engraved wood boxes in for 8-10 hours every night since he got it from me.

It'll be 20 years old in a few months, and it still runs like new. It has never suffered a breakdown of any kind. The original mirrors and 2" lens are still in use, as are the original Y belts. The ONLY parts that's ever been replaced besides the tubes, 2 X belts, 1 set of X rail roller bearings, and the X stepper motor that, it turns out, didn't need replacing (when changing and adjusting the X belt the last time, I tightened one screw too tight and twisted the motor housing slightly, causing it to make a slight scraping noise. It still works just fine)

For that reason, my nod goes to the ULS.

:)

[ludovic chenaux]

I would consider a Trotec as well. I think you can get a Sawmill Creek discount.

Trotec is more expensive, they don't care if I have a better price with Epilog and ULS.



(...)Also, I don't know what your options are there (Switzerland I'm assuming) but I know around here in the states there are usually some used machines available at about 50-60% what you would pay for a new machine. That might be another option for stretching your budget. Or financing the machine if you can get a business line of credit.

Switzerland is a small country and an expensive one sadly :(



In case you're not having much success navigating the search feature, here are two pretty active threads that talk about some of the good and bad of the epilog, trotec, and universal lasers from earlier this year:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?241982-Trotec-VS-Epilog-(yes-another-thread) (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?241982-Trotec-VS-Epilog-%28yes-another-thread%29)

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?242202-Universal-vs-Trotec

Thank you :p

[Matt McCoy]

Switzerland is not part of the EU -- correct? Are there any VAT, tax, or shipping advantages that might be considered by purchasing a Trotec from your neighbors in Austria?

[Paul Phillips]

Ludovic, welcome to the Creek! I purchased a Universal after looking at the big three makers first hand at a sign convention and although i think ULS and Epilog are very close in quality what sold me was the software and driver interface of the ULS which seemed way ahead of Epilog. I'm a more visual person and the ULS software appealed to me more on that basis I think. I have had my ULS going on 7 years, I use it every day and would say that it is very reliable, the only thing I have had to replace are belt and bearings which are normal and not too expensive. I did have to have a tube recharged which I found out can be done by a 3rd party for much less than the manufacturer. i would agree with what others have told you, send a sample and have them cut some for you. 40 watts will not cut MDF very fast so something like 50 or 60 watts would probably be better. FWIW Trotec do make the Rayjet which is their entry level machine, you might see what the prices are on those. Hope this helps.

[Keith Winter]

Agreed driver of a new ULS is light-years beyond Epilog.


Ludovic, welcome to the Creek! I purchased a Universal after looking at the big three makers first hand at a sign convention and although i think ULS and Epilog are very close in quality what sold me was the software and driver interface of the ULS which seemed way ahead of Epilog. I'm a more visual person and the ULS software appealed to me more on that basis I think. I have had my ULS going on 7 years, I use it every day and would say that it is very reliable, the only thing I have had to replace are belt and bearings which are normal and not too expensive. I did have to have a tube recharged which I found out can be done by a 3rd party for much less than the manufacturer. i would agree with what others have told you, send a sample and have them cut some for you. 40 watts will not cut MDF very fast so something like 50 or 60 watts would probably be better. FWIW Trotec do make the Rayjet which is their entry level machine, you might see what the prices are on those. Hope this helps.

[ludovic chenaux]

Switzerland is not part of the EU -- correct? Are there any VAT, tax, or shipping advantages that might be considered by purchasing a Trotec from your neighbors in Austria?

Exact, it's a freedom country surrounded by the EU :cool:.

My 3 offers from ULS and Epilog are from dealers in France. This way it's far less expensive than a purchase in Switzerland, even with customs tax (...)

[Ross Moshinsky]

ULS wins on software by quite a bit. Epilog has the advantage on build quality by a smaller amount. ULS used to have a major advantage that their cost of a recharged tube was really reasonable. About a year ago their prices dramatically increased. Now I'd say it's a wash. Speed and quality is probably about the same. I didn't notice a distinct difference when I was shopping around.

Also one thing, these lasers are basically printers. They will run off MS word if you want to use it. Corel Draw is the unofficial software for the engraving industry. It started that way many years ago and has stayed that way. Personally, I have it but very rarely use it. I do my work with Illustrator or Gravostyle.

Lastly, look at the Gravograph LS100 machine. The software driver is not as good as the other companies, but the actual machine is far superior. My LS100 is comparable to a Trotec Speedy100. I will warn you, customer service is very hit or miss and replacement parts are ridiculously overpriced. Recently, I've noticed an improvement in customer service, but honestly, I call them very rarely.

[Paul Phillips]

ULS wins on software by quite a bit. Epilog has the advantage on build quality by a smaller amount. ULS used to have a major advantage that their cost of a recharged tube was really reasonable. About a year ago their prices dramatically increased. Now I'd say it's a wash. Speed and quality is probably about the same. I didn't notice a distinct difference when I was shopping around.

I started a thread a while back about how the ULS price increased from a relatively reasonable (within industry standards) $1250 for a tube recharge to $2150 which prompted me to find an alternative which was Evergreen Laser Repair who ended up charging only $750. Just saying, there are alternatives to the Manufacturer once it's out of warranty.
I have a 15 year old Gravograph rotary engraver and would agree about their customer service, once you have a really disappointing experience with a manufacturer it's really hard to get past that, also, never really liked the software.

[Kev Williams]

To expound on Ross's post (a lot, sorry!)--

With the exception of the GCC I got from Gary and the 2 Triumph lasers, everything I own is New Hermes-- machines, saws, shears, grinders, beveller, corner-notcher-- and my NH rep sold us every piece. The combined ages of all my machines is over 275 years. The combined 'lost time' breakdowns in those 275 years: 3 power supplies... 2 of those were just last year, that run my IS7000. The second one that died was the one my NH rep borrowed me, I'm now using a second borrowed one, a really old honker from an IS400, but it does the job. My rep has my original and works on it in his spare time, in hopes he can save me the factory pricing to fix it. The other power supply that failed was in my LS900 laser, went south about 4 years ago. I've had a few issues with some of my EP modules, but they're just computers, and my rep fixes them for me, and he always has one I can borrow if I need it, and he's charged me all of $240 grand total over the years to repair them.

So, in the last 40 'actual' years and 275 'machine' years, I've had exactly 3 days of machine down-time due to the power supplies. I've had 2 warrantee issues ever; a bad Y stepper belt on the LS900, and the Concept 2000 (back in 1981) needed an upgraded XYM board setup. Occasionally I have 'little' failures, usually a broken belt or a limit switch goes bad, but I have spares, they change out quick. I've spent: $1100 for an overnighted PS for the LS900, $240 in EP mod repairs, and maybe $8000 on assorted motors, bearings, lead screws and other maintenance items--in 40 years! Aside from a motor or idler bearing or two, no other mechanical related failures of any kind. Whenever I've needed to borrow a PS or EP mod, my rep brings one to me usually within a couple of hours. I don't know what I'd do without him...

And to address lasers and basic maintenance, re: my 12 year old LS900... My rep replaced the mirror over my lens (at no cost) a year or so ago, about 5 years ago the mirror on the LED shutter mirror came off, and I superglued it back on, and last year I had to re-seat the Y stepper's belt cog. That's about it. It's still on the original lens, other mirrors, steppers, belts and tube. I've never touched the guide rails or their bearings. I've never adjusted a belt. Only lube I've ever done is a little grease on the table's lead screws.
(Now, before I forget: to all of the above, knock on my head) ;)

The only other things ever built that I can think of as reliable as and upkeep-easy as my NH machines: the old Bell rotary telephones. :)

It's sad that Gravograph has such a bad CS reputation. If they would just set their sights on getting their customer service to work as well as their machines, they could corner all the engraving markets...

That all said, if it's still between a ULS and an Epi, my nod goes to ULS... ;)

[Nicolas Silva]

All I can offer is this:
For that reason, my nod goes to the ULS.
:)

Ditto on the nod. Mine is a 2001 model M-class. It is used at least 7-9 hours daily 6 days a week. Still going.
the thing to look at in this forum is how many topics start off with "I have an XYZ laser and it has this problem....". The one thing you'll notice is that you rarely see XYZ substituted with ULS.

[ludovic chenaux]

If I had money I'd buy the Mini24.

My first choice was Epilog but now I have an offer at the same price for the VLS 3.50 I'm confused :confused:
It lacks Ethernet but has a bigger bed.
Servos vs stepper, is it that important ?
I tried the Epilog Mini, but the ULS rep. doesn't have the VLS 3.50 for demo.


This machine is for a side project business, I don't want to spend to much money but I want something reliable and fast.

[Dan Hollis]

We have an epilog helix (60W) and a universal vls4.60 (50W) in the local makerspace.

The epilog rasters about 2x as fast as the universal. because the epilog uses servos and the universal uses steppers.

The universal cuts thick wood and acrylic way better than the epilog. the epilog chars the crap out of stuff and requires multiple passes. the universal punches clean through on first pass. because we have coaxial air assist on the universal and lateral air assist on the epilog.

Both machines have their quirks. I find myself using the universal more, mainly due to the ability to cleanly and easily cut thick wood.

I regularly push the limits of the bed size, but then i'm currently using these machines to make plywood furniture :D probably not typical for your average maker. 24"x18" is just barely big enough to hold the plywood sheets I work with. I'd love something more like 24x24. though once i get my shaper origin, i may stop using the universal for plywood altogether. who knows. that's still a year away though ;)

The ideal laser cutter for me would have coaxial air assist and servos. Both are good machines, but if I could choose only one machine from the makerspace, it would be the univeral.

FWIW I use gimp, inkscape and visio to drive these laser cutters.

[Rich Harman]

...the epilog chars the crap out of stuff and requires multiple passes. the universal punches clean through on first pass. because we have coaxial air assist on the universal and lateral air assist on the epilog.

I don't think the direction the air is coming from should make much difference in cutting ability. I've tried it both ways on mine, either way worked fine. I suspect that there is something else going on for there to be such a discrepancy in cutting performance.

[Dan Hollis]

I don't think the direction the air is coming from should make much difference in cutting ability. I've tried it both ways on mine, either way worked fine. I suspect that there is something else going on for there to be such a discrepancy in cutting performance.

watching both machines cut, it's pretty obvious what's going on. the epilog just pushes air all around around on the surface and it swirls around and gets in the way of the laser, the mirrors, the lens, etc.

on the universal, the smoke never gets in the way of the laser. it either gets blasted down through the bottom of the cut or off to the side.

[ludovic chenaux]

Thank you Dan :)

Now i'm more between Mini 24 and VLS 3.50, I think the Mini 18 is not enough.

[Dan Hollis]

Thank you Dan :)

Now i'm more between Mini 24 and VLS 3.50, I think the Mini 18 is not enough.

yes, the mini 18 is pretty small. even with the helix 24 with 24"x18" there are times i'd like to have more space.

[Ross Moshinsky]

We have an epilog helix (60W) and a universal vls4.60 (50W) in the local makerspace.

The epilog rasters about 2x as fast as the universal. because the epilog uses servos and the universal uses steppers.

The universal cuts thick wood and acrylic way better than the epilog. the epilog chars the crap out of stuff and requires multiple passes. the universal punches clean through on first pass. because we have coaxial air assist on the universal and lateral air assist on the epilog.

Both machines have their quirks. I find myself using the universal more, mainly due to the ability to cleanly and easily cut thick wood.

I regularly push the limits of the bed size, but then i'm currently using these machines to make plywood furniture :D probably not typical for your average maker. 24"x18" is just barely big enough to hold the plywood sheets I work with. I'd love something more like 24x24. though once i get my shaper origin, i may stop using the universal for plywood altogether. who knows. that's still a year away though ;)

The ideal laser cutter for me would have coaxial air assist and servos. Both are good machines, but if I could choose only one machine from the makerspace, it would be the univeral.

FWIW I use gimp, inkscape and visio to drive these laser cutters.

That's not true. If it was, that would mean the VLS engraves at about 40ips and I can tell you it doesn't. Epilog and ULS are both rated at 80-90ips.

[Paul Phillips]

Make sure your'e comparing apples to apples, the drivers are a bit different, maybe you can try changing some of the settings in the ULS driver to speed it up, make sure your image density is not above 5 and image enhancement is turned off. Image density will add more passes and slow it down, as far as I know at 100% speed they should be at least close in speed.

[Keith Winter]

watching both machines cut, it's pretty obvious what's going on. the epilog just pushes air all around around on the surface and it swirls around and gets in the way of the laser, the mirrors, the lens, etc.

on the universal, the smoke never gets in the way of the laser. it either gets blasted down through the bottom of the cut or off to the side.

Not correct. What you are seeing is related to the cone used, velocity of the air assist (can be adjusted), and down draft suction of the cutting table.

[Dan Hollis]

Not correct. What you are seeing is related to the cone used, velocity of the air assist (can be adjusted), and down draft suction of the cutting table.

is coaxial air assist even an option for the epilog helix 24?

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/14916_5F00_EpilogLaser_5F00_F-11.jpg

[Dan Hollis]

That's not true. If it was, that would mean the VLS engraves at about 40ips and I can tell you it doesn't. Epilog and ULS are both rated at 80-90ips.

they may have the same max linear travel rate but the epilog doesn't have to worry about skipping steps due to the positional feedback, it definitely reverses direction faster. the uls has to be careful not to accelerate/decelerate too fast and skip steps, all steppers are limited in that regard.

max velocity on the sales brochure doesn't tell the whole story here.

here's two videos showing pretty much exactly the same thing we see.

epilog rastering (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUzeie89mgg)

universal rastering (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EFfFfJCP8M)

you can see the universal taking its time reversing direction, appearing to pause at the end of each line. the epilog gets around to its business of the next line much quicker than the universal, it reverses direction virtually instantaneously.

i still prefer the universal for the projects i do, but it's something to think about if you do mostly rastering. pure specs from sheets isn't enough.

[Keith Winter]

is coaxial air assist even an option for the epilog helix 24?

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/14916_5F00_EpilogLaser_5F00_F-11.jpg

If we were talking about engraving I could potentially see some validity to your point. You were talking about cutting though, this photo is engraving, two different things. Secondly on engraving, air assist can be turned off many times depending on material, so even engraving that point isn't very valid.

Back to your original statement about cutting.... When cutting, the velocity of air and the downdraft suction of the cutting table are the biggest problem. If you don't have enough downdraft suction or air assist velocity (adjustable) it will make burn mark or a mess on the top as you suggest. Other factors such as lens selection and distance from the material can additionally affect this when cutting as well.

[Keith Winter]

they may have the same max linear travel rate but the epilog doesn't have to worry about skipping steps due to the positional feedback, it definitely reverses direction faster. the uls has to be careful not to accelerate/decelerate too fast and skip steps, all steppers are limited in that regard.

max velocity on the sales brochure doesn't tell the whole story here.

here's two videos showing pretty much exactly the same thing we see.

epilog rastering (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUzeie89mgg)

universal rastering (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EFfFfJCP8M)

you can see the universal taking its time reversing direction, appearing to pause at the end of each line. the epilog gets around to its business of the next line much quicker than the universal, it reverses direction virtually instantaneously.

i still prefer the universal for the projects i do, but it's something to think about if you do mostly rastering. pure specs from sheets isn't enough.

There are so many things wrong with these video samples.

1. We have no idea the power or lens used on each laser (universal does say power)
2. They are doing different designs and we don't know how big they are
3. We don't know what settings they are using or if the are even running full speed.
4. That is a super speed ULS it engraves two lines at once. Not a normal ULS

[ludovic chenaux]

Do you think it's possible to have a better price at a show than the standard discount ?

[Paul Phillips]

There are so many things wrong with these video samples.

1. We have no idea the power or lens used on each laser (universal does say power)
2. They are doing different designs and we don't know how big they are
3. We don't know what settings they are using or if the are even running full speed.
4. That is a super speed ULS it engraves two lines at once. Not a normal ULS

I would agree, not a valid comparison (see my earlier reply #23). The argument of steppers vs servos is not that cut and dried IMO. Here's an interesting discussion of why Universal uses steppers, Mike McKenzie post #3.
http://www.engravingetc.org/archive/lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=872.1

[Keith Winter]

Do you think it's possible to have a better price at a show than the standard discount ?

Pricing is always better at the show. Sometimes by thousands of dollars and/or freebies/upgrades worth thousands.

[Ross Moshinsky]

At the show, for whatever reason, they give you the "best" price right away. When you contact your sales rep out of the blue, expect to spend a decent chunk of time negotiating the price.

[Dan Hollis]

I would agree, not a valid comparison (see my earlier reply #23). The argument of steppers vs servos is not that cut and dried IMO. Here's an interesting discussion of why Universal uses steppers, Mike McKenzie post #3.
http://www.engravingetc.org/archive/lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=872.1

can you make a video of your ULS reversing direction as quickly as that epilog?

our vls4.60 performs exactly the same as that one in the video. raster,pause,raster,pause,raster,pause. and i know exactly why the universals do it. they have to decelerate more gradually, or risk skipping steps.

the epilog helix 24 goes rasterrasterrasterrasterrasterrasterrasterrasterra ster. just like the one in that video. and again i know exactly why the epilog can do it. the feedback markers lets them do it safely.

[Brian Leavitt]

That's not true. If it was, that would mean the VLS engraves at about 40ips and I can tell you it doesn't. Epilog and ULS are both rated at 80-90ips.
I believe it. My ULS and Epilog machines both rated around the same speed, but the Epilog will run many jobs twice as fast using the same settings (almost the same settings - 500LPI on the Universal vs. 600LPI on the Epilog) . There are a couple of reasons. First is it doesn't have to pause at the end of each line. Second is it disregards all of the "white space" in any given file. It is especially noticeable with text. Say you have a a word like "Recognition". When it comes to the descender of the "g", the Epilog will travel back and forth only enough to laser that descender, while engraving. The ULS will travel the entire length of the word regardless.

Of course, This is on an older ULS laser so things may be different now...

That said, I'd honestly still take the ULS over the Epilog. It engraves better detail and never breaks. Heck - the 50 watt tube in the Universal is 10 years old and is still outputting 58 watts.

[Keith Winter]

Second is it disregards all of the "white space" in any given file. It is especially noticeable with text. Say you have a a word like "Recognition". When it comes to the descender of the "g", the Epilog will travel back and forth only enough to laser that descender, while engraving. The ULS will travel the entire length of the word regardless.

Of course, This is on an older ULS laser so things may be different now...


Interesting the white space I wonder if that has been fixed in newer versions...That seems like a simple software optimization, can anyone with a newer ULS verify if that has been fixed?

[ludovic chenaux]

At the show, for whatever reason, they give you the "best" price right away. When you contact your sales rep out of the blue, expect to spend a decent chunk of time negotiating the price.

Actually I think I have a good price with Epilog and Universal, but you confirm that during a show the prices could be even better (or free upgrade...)

The next show is C!print at Madrid (October 4,5,6th), but Spain is not the easiest way to buy and import in Switzerland (and I don't speak spanish).
Too bad, next C!print in France is February 2017...

[Kev Williams]

That ULS in the video has the same exact gantry setup as my old 1997 ULS-- I don't know that it's capable of much over 40" per second simply because of the tiny belt. Or, it may be capable of 80 ips on the straights, but it would have to slow way down before the change. I notice in that vid it DOES seem to hold a long time before changing direction. But it's definitely not running the length anywhere near as fast as the Epilog--

Just for giggles I just shot some vid of my LS900 running full speed on across a 6" plate. It runs almost exactly as fast per length-of-sweep as the Epilog, which is typical of 70-80ips machines.

linky>> https://youtu.be/DPsThw_p88M

(btw, I called it an LS100, it IS an LS900... oops)
I've never even watched a 150ips machine run, but it must be fun! :)

[ludovic chenaux]

What about the filter unit ?
Do you know difference between the BOFA base 1 (for ULS) and the TBH GL desk 30 (for Epilog) ?


BOFA AD base 1 Oracle : http://www.bofa.co.uk/productDetails.asp?pid=49

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TBH GL desk 30 : http://www.tbh.eu/en/products/gl-desk-series/gl-20-gl-30.html

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