Scrapers.

[Russell Neyman]

I'm in the process of writing an article about the much maligned scrapers and would like to hear your thoughts.

It seems to me that they're misunderstood and mid-used, perhaps because the concept and technique is so contrary to that of a gouge. I see more people get catches with scrapers than any other tool. But once you've mastered the idea of cutting with a microscopic burr using leverage to your advantage -- I believe I have -- scrapers can offer marvelous results.

What's your take? Any tricks I might have overlooked?

[William C Rogers]

I love scrapers. I've never had any problem using them and can't recall any real catches. I'm not an experienced turner, but very comfortable using a scraper. I don't like the carbide insert using as a scraper. My first scraper was a reground old skew. I just recently bought two 1" scrapers from Thompson tools. Much better. Other than using a skew as a negative rake scraper I haven't had any luck making a negative rake scraper. I've tried several angle combinations, but it just doesn't seem to cut. I use them a lot on both inside and outside of bowls. I'm much better with a scraper than I am with a bowl gouge. I don't know of any trick to using them, but keeping a sharp edge makes them easier to use.

[Al Wasser]

Ya gotta keep the tool rest close to the work or yo will get some big catches. Robo is the expert --- ask him

[Roger Chandler]

When you do your write-up, Russell, I hope you will include some tips about proper techniques. I have had a few catches along the way with a scraper, but not near as many as with other tools, like a bowl gouge or spindle gouge......especially the skew, but that is probably not a fair comparison. Cutting slightly above center with the handle high is an important technique, and negative rake grind will help that as well. Angle the burr at about 35-40 degrees, and one can get shear scraping cleanup cuts with feather light shavings coming off the tool......good for going up the sides of walls to clean up any ridges. Sometimes smaller is better, as I have had a few problem transitions from side to bottom of a bowl, and my usual go to scraper [a 1" roundnose] would not give the surface I was looking for, but went to a 1/2" roundnose, and it gave the better surface I wanted..........I think that depends on the shape of the curve in the transition, the size of the bowl, and the species of wood, but it is a good thing to remember as there are times when a change in a tool will help, including going to a smaller size bowl gouge.

Al's tip about keeping the toolrest close is important!

[Bob Bouis]

A tip that stands out to me is how surprisingly effective scrapers can be for hogging out green wood.

[Jeramie Johnson]

I love my handled scrapers, and when the gouge is not getting me what I want, sharp transition in a deep vessel, or I want to remove unevenness from a partial area of the bottom, one of the scrapers is what I go to. I did recently receive a fluteless gouge, and that has been a new favorite for finishing (thanks Robo for always suggesting it). So much so, I have yet to start using the cabinet scrapers.

As mentioned, for green wood, when the gouge is tearing too much, I have found the scraper is a great alternative. Grain direction is one thing, sometimes the wood just behaves differently to logic. And I get some weird marsh-swampland cross breeds that are definitely oddballs.


I'll leave technique to be suggested by those with more experience. I vary to what is comfortable and safe for me and the wood I work with.

[daryl moses]

I use scrapers almost exclusively for inside and outside of bowls. I have all but retired my bowl gouges.
They are very fast at removing a lot of wood especially when green, are easily sharpened [although they don't stay sharp long] can leave a surprisingly clean cut while shear scraping, and are relatively inexpensive compared to gouges.
I usually purchase 1" round nose scrapers and grind them to suite my needs.
Before I start a project I sharpen them all, and just grab a sharp one when it starts to dull. For the final finish cut I resharpen as needed.
As mentioned they are very easy and quick to sharpen, and no jigs are required just the platform set at the correct angle.

[Roger Chandler]

I have all but retired my bowl gouges. . Why Daryl, I am shocked! :eek: :D
I guess that is one approach, and if one doesn't care about skill development very much, well it is a viable alternative to traditional turning.

We will just have to blame that Robo Hippy guy for flooding the forums and youtube with technques that mock turning orthodoxy! :eek: We may have to tar & feather that dude! :D;)

[daryl moses]

. Why Daryl, I am shocked! :eek: :D
I guess that is one approach, and if one doesn't care about skill development very much, well it is a viable alternative to traditional turning.

We will just have to blame that Robo Hippy guy for flooding the forums and youtube with technques that mock turning orthodoxy! :eek: We may have to tar & feather that dude! :D;)
Yep, you got me Roger. And yes, it's Reeds fault, lol.
I'm actually pretty handy with the bowl gouge, but I can sharpen 4-5 scrapers faster than I can put a bowl gouge in the fingernail grind fixture and keep on turning. I still keep the gouge sharp and ready for those pieces that are very prone to tear out.

[Russell Neyman]

My own take is that every situation has a proper tool, and every tool has a proper use. I use all of them -- scrapers, gouges, skews -- and make a point to become as proficient as I can with each of them.

The starting point for my piece has to do with the phrase is used earlier: "much-maligned." I have heard some pretty good woodturners say something to the effect that "using scrapers is for Neanderthals." It just isn't true. I use various scrapers to good effect when I want to deal with tearout or move a lot of wood out of the way in a hurry. But I also use a really sharp bowl gouge as my favorite everyday tool.

The earlier comment about moving the tool rest close is certainly a key point, but I think that maintaining a mechanical advantage (leverage) is something that applies to all woodturning tools, wouldn't you agree? I also think that the point regarding ease of sharpening is worth noting, too. I'm surprised no one has mentioned raising a burr or using card scrapers hasn't come up.

Looking forward to more comments. If I quote you directly, I'll include attribution.

[Tom Albrecht]

You should try to get in touch with Myron Curtis and see page 46 of the current AAW American Woodturner.

[Reed Gray]

Well, I accept the 'instigator' title here for scrapers, but others have done it before me..... Leo is one. Very effective as heavy roughing tools. Very effective as a shear scraping tool. Not so good for finish cuts other than in end grain, or as a shear scraper. Burrs, I prefer the burr straight from the grinder and a CBN wheel, but have been experimenting with raised burrs after watching Eric Lofstrum, and Ralph, you might want to contact him. The burr from a standard wheel does not have nearly as much strength as the one from a CBN wheel. The burr from a 600 or 1000 grit wheel is excellent for a shear scraping finish cut, but lousy for roughing. Biggest problem with scrapers and catching is that for some reason, people want the big heavy scrapers 'for stability'. No idea about that claim. I don't use anything wider than 1 1/4 inch, and thicker than 3/8. The bigger ones provide an opportunity to put more metal into the wood at one time, kind of like huge gouges, so it doesn't take much to get over powered, especially if you are trying to hang out too far off the tool rest. I can stall my 3 hp Beauty with my 1 inch wide Big Ugly tool, and I don't think many turners will take off shavings wider than 1 inch with their gouges. I prefer an inside or 'swept back' grind. Nose for heavy stock removal, and wing for shear scraping. Round nose if you only have one scraper so you can go both right and left. Many other variations.

Negative rake scrapers are a whole different animal, and there was a long discussion here about them.

Do I need to come up and do a scraper demo for your club??? I will be up in Seattle in October... A Duck visiting Husky country during football season... Think I will have to wear the green and yellow....

Card scrapers? Well, not for me. They do have some use on bowls when the lathe is stopped, but I am not an expert on them...

robo hippy

[Paul Girouard]

Who is Robo Hippy?

[daryl moses]

Who is Robo Hippy?
Reed Gray. Check out his youtube videos.

[Chris Gunsolley]

I use scrapers almost exclusively for inside and outside of bowls. I have all but retired my bowl gouges.
They are very fast at removing a lot of wood especially when green, are easily sharpened [although they don't stay sharp long] can leave a surprisingly clean cut while shear scraping, and are relatively inexpensive compared to gouges.
I usually purchase 1" round nose scrapers and grind them to suite my needs.
Before I start a project I sharpen them all, and just grab a sharp one when it starts to dull. For the final finish cut I resharpen as needed.
As mentioned they are very easy and quick to sharpen, and no jigs are required just the platform set at the correct angle.

Me too, Daryl! This is a timely topic for me, as I was about to start a topic along the lines of "Anyone else use nothing but scrapers on their bowls?" So, thanks for this, Russell.

I turn nothing but bowls, and when I began, I used bowl gouges exclusively for that, because that's what everyone said was the best for turning bowls. I was happy with the results I was getting with my bowl gouges, but naturally, I would experiment. As time progressed, I continually experimented with different tools and techniques to accomplish similar things, I actually ended up transitioning to using scrapers exclusively, like Daryl, and for the reasons he mentioned. As I turned a bowl, I would switch between the scraper and the bowl gouge to accomplish the same thing, such as when forming the outer profile of a bowl, I would be doing it with the bowl gouge, then quickly switch to the scraper and continue. Or, when forming the inside curve when hollowing, I would alternate between the bowl gouge and scraper, and see how my experience changed. It seemed I could achieve the same (and often even better) result with the scraper, and more easily. Everything just seemed more pleasurable with the scrapers. I also saved a lot of time when sharpening, because sharpening the scrapers is so easy, and when I want to make the necessary adjustments to sharpen more than one of them, it is very simple and a lot faster than it would be for me to sharpen numerous bowl gouges. I think experimenting and discovering these perks is how I made the transition from bowl gouges to scrapers, but along the way, I did hear a few interesting pieces of information regarding the use of scrapers on bowls, such as that Richard Raffan liked them a lot and I came across that video on Youtube by Sam Angelo, "Woodturning a Bowl with a Scraper" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo_4iuDJZZw. I haven't watched Reed Gray's videos on them, but it sounds like I'm in for a treat!

You could do absolutely everything you need to in bowl turning with a round nosed scraper if you'd like. What I use for scraping are 6 scrapers, not because they are all necessary, but because it is simply pleasurable to use them all when turning a bowl. I just sharpen them all before I begin turning, and re-sharpening them is simple, as Daryl mentioned. The ones I use are Ashley Aisles scrapers, which are found at https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/WIC. I've got the 3/4" and 1/2" versions of the round, dome, and square scrapers, and that comprises all of them. I turn relatively large bowls, and rely on the 3/4" versions most of the time. The 1/2" versions are used on smaller bowls or to target areas more specifically. In the process from roughing to finishing cuts, I like to progress from more aggressive to less aggressive. On the outside of the bowl, this means starting with the round scraper for roughing, the dome-ended scraper for when I'm approaching my final profile, then the square-ended scraper for ensuring that the surface is perfectly round. I use a skew for forming tenons. On the inside, more aggressive to less aggressive means beginning with the round-ended scraper to form the inner profile, then finishing with the dome-ended scraper if the radius of the curve of the inner profile of the bowl is not as tight as the curve of the scraper. For finishing cuts, usually a very light cut/scrape is sufficient. If not, on the outside, I'll use a shear scraping technique through which the square scraper is angled at 45 degrees or greater, and I'm scraping with only a small portion of the bottom half of the cutting edge. For finishing cuts on the inside, I'll just use very light cuts/scrapes with either the round or dome scraper. Again, you could do everything inside and out with a single round-ended scraper if you'd prefer. You don't need all those different scrapers, I just think they're fun to use.

Anyone else in this boat?

Also, to those of you whom have thoroughly and honestly compared your bowl turning experience while using bowl gouges versus scrapers, and you still prefer your bowl gouges, what advantages do you believe your bowl gouges offer over your scrapers?

(PS> If you want a negative rake scraper, raise the handle of your scraper ;))

[Reed Gray]

Well, some after thoughts... Chris, I did just watch Sam's scraper video, and best thing I can say about it is that he and I should do a play date with scrapers.... We are very far apart on some views.

One, I NEVER use a scraper flat on the tool rest for a finish cut any where near the rim of the bowl. Two reasons, one the rim is flexible, and will vibrate to the point of "my bowl made this strange screeching and howling sound and then blew up". Using your hand on the outside as a steady rest will make no difference to this being a high risk cut. Using a glove is not necessary because if your hand is getting hot, then you are pushing too hard. Tool pressure = Hand pressure. Any variance on either side of this equation makes for screeching and howling. The hand as a steady rest should be lighter than a feather. The other reason is that a scraping cut, in bowl/side grain orientation will leave tear out. Makes no difference how sharp it is or how light of a cut you are taking. You can get a fairly clean cut across the bottom where you are pretty much cutting with the fiber, but up the walls, you do the uphill/downhill/uphill/downhill on every single rotation, and the uphill cuts will tear. To get a better cut, you use a shear cut, which he does with his gouge, but with a gouge, that is limited to the first inch or two of the inside of the bowl, then the rim and tool rest, and lathe bed, and banjo all get in the way. This is where I use the ) nose scraper. Drop the handle a bit, and cut with the lower half, just like a skew so you keep the tool balanced and it doesn't skate away on you. I use this across the bottom and up the entire wall of the bowl. The higher the shear angle, the cleaner the cut. Same with gouges. Oh, no, the edge on a gouge is not sharper than the burr on a scraper. That depends on how you sharpen and raise the burr. The bevel angle is more acute or pointy, but that is the only difference.

The demo he does with a knife at the beginning of the video is more similar to a card scraper, and not at all like the cuts using the burr on a standard scraper.

You did comment that you can take a standard scraper and raise the handle and make it a NRS. I have played a lot more with standard scrapers, and less with the NRS, but they do not cut the same, no matter what the angle is relative to the wood. The double angle makes the difference, but I haven't been able to figure out what it does exactly. I still feel that a shear scrape cuts better than a flat scrape (cutting edge at 90 degrees to the spin of the wood, or a scraper flat on the tool rest). The NRS will cut a bit cleaner than a standard scraper though, but not much. The higher shear angle is like going over speed bumps in the parking lots. Hit it square on, you get a big bump. Hit it at 45 degrees, and it smooths out a lot. Hit it at 80 degrees, and you can barely feel it. There are some who claim to be able to do 'tear out free' bowl turning. Well, lets just say that I think that is impossible. Yes, you can tame it to the point where it is almost impossible to see, and takes minimal sanding to eliminate, but if you use your hands and fingers, you can feel it every single time. When you cut against the grain, you will get tear out.

I feel the popularity of the carbide tipped scrapers is due, as much as any other factor, is that they are scrapers, but small ones, and easier to control for most people. Some are designed to be used at a shear angle, but same principles.

robo hippy

[Paul Girouard]

Reed Gray. Check out his youtube videos.

Thanks , I goggled him as well, interesting stuff , I need to watch more of his video's to learn more of his concepts!

[Russell Neyman]

Reed, I'll call you next week.

[Roger Chandler]

Well, I accept the 'instigator' title here for scrapers, robo hippy Reed, I hope you know that I was speaking "tongue in cheek" and I think it is great that you have brought to mainstream turning the expanded use of scrapers. I applaud your willingness to experiment and bring the results to your fellow turners on these forums!

The "tar & feather" comment was put there for laughs!

[Reed Gray]

Roger, I didn't even have to stop and think about that one to figure it out.... I do have a sense of humor....

robo hippy