Disston D23 versus Disston #12

[alan west]

For the last few years I have used a Disston D23 26” 8pt as my primary rip saw. It is filed with zero rake, was made about in the 50’s, and I can closely rip to a line with it. I work with a lot of hard maple and acquired a Disston #12 to see if a thinner blade would be easier to cut with. Not saying cutting with the D23 was hard. I used to rip with a D8 and going to a D23 thinner blade was a big improvement. The Disston #12 is an 8pt and was re-filed rip with a zero rake. I am not an expert on filing saws, but I have done it about thirty times and I am pleased with my results. My problem is I struggle cutting to a line with the #12 and at first it always went to the right. The handle feels way different. On all my saws, when I saw my index finger points straight on the side of the handle with the rest of my fingers curled around the handle holding it. The only way I can somewhat cut a straight line is to wrap my index finger around the handle on the #12, which feels so alien. This works in maple, but I cut pine last night and the saw took off to the right again. I have stoned the right side at least twenty times it seems trying to figure this out and it seems to make no difference. The saw initially had a lot of set and I removed most of that when I filed it. Any ideas? Is my hand just used to a more modern handle as in the D23 versus the #12?

I was excited to get the old #12 after reading how Disston quality went downhill in the 50's, as the later ones is all I have ever had for saws.

[lowell holmes]

I posted a picture of a handle I made for a D7 saw in another current string. You might go look at it.

If you don't like the feel of the handle on your #12, I suggest you make another for it.
You can use a handle you do like for a model or make a new drawing your self.

I draw my new handles for saws using AutoCad. If you need some help, send me a private message. I can send you a pdf of a handle for you to print. There are also handle patterns you can download on line.

http://www.tgiag.com/saw-handle-scans.html

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Alan and welcome to the Creek. Though you have been around awhile.

My guess is your saw teeth have more set on one side than the other. Especially if all of your other saws cut to the line. Stoning the high side will take a lot of metal removal. It might be easier to add some set to the low teeth.

One time to see if it was me or the saw not tracking my left hand was tried. The saw still wandered to the same side. It seems due to my visual parallax anomaly my left hand sawing is a bit straighter than my right hand sawing.

Do you have a caliper that can measure the set?

My other experience with this was after a post about how it is acceptable to file rip teeth all from one side. My experience with this was a saw that pulled to one side after sharpening this way. There wasn't any investigation on why this happened. It merely made me feel it was easier to flip the saw around to attend to each side separately.

jtk

[alan west]

Heel Middle Toe

Top Plate .32 .29 .21
Bottom Plate .34 .33 .28

Set (got it) .55 .55 .47

Set (1st sharpen) .38 .38 .35
Set (now) .37 .37 .35

When I first got the saw it had an awful lot of set that I removed thru sharpening and stoning the sides. The saw was filed crosscut with 15 degrees of rake. I reverse the saw plate when doing set. Perhaps I should keep stoning the side of the blade that the blade is curving towards? My feeling was I was getting close to the right amount of set, but have read that a #12 does not need as much set?

[lowell holmes]

I have been posting in another string about saw handles. I was looking at my D-23 today and realized it is more refined than other Disston handles.

[Ron Bontz]

Just a thought. So take it with a grain of salt. The No. 12s have a low hang angle around 10* to 12*. Along with a 0.035" thick plate. The thinner plates will let you bend them and change the cutting path easier than the thicker D8s at 0.042" plates without noticing it so much. Like using a thin pate carcass saw vs. a thicker larger tenon saw. Once you have ruled out a filing problem, Re eval. your technique and/ or stance as well. The handles should not make that much difference unless the plate is in the handle crooked to begin with. ( Not likely ) That's my thoughts for the day. ( as he goes back to cutting crooked lines. :) )

[lowell holmes]

Just a thought. So take it with a grain of salt. The No. 12s have a low hang angle around 10* to 12*. Along with a 0.035" thick plate. The thinner plates will let you bend them and change the cutting path easier than the thicker D8s at 0.042" plates without noticing it so much. Like using a thin pate carcass saw vs. a thicker larger tenon saw. Once you have ruled out a filing problem, Re eval. your technique and/ or stance as well. The handles should not make that much difference unless the plate is in the handle crooked to begin with. ( Not likely ) That's my thoughts for the day. ( as he goes back to cutting crooked lines. :) )

Ron, can't you adjust the hang angle with the geometry of the saw slot in the handle? I will probably have a hang angle of about 17 degrees. Your thinking I need a flatter hang angle than that.
What do you think. I posted a picture of the handle I was planning on making tomorrow in the other thread about new old stock.