Unsolicited advice question

[Charlie Velasquez]

I also do Facebook… When a “friend” shares someone else’s post I see them. An acquaintance of one of my friends just posted pictures of his almost completed deck project. I am guessing 1,000’s of dollars worth of lumber and much time. This acquaintance, in a rural suburb, has little experience in construction and probably did not pull permits - he may not have needed them.
In any event, I noticed several code violations in its construction. One of these was the attachment method of his beams to his posts; bolts only are no longer allowed. And his method of hanging his joists; no joist hangers, he toenailed from the inside and face nailed from the outside of the rim joists. He does have an interior beam (still bolts only), so the joists do not depend solely on the nails.


Do I contact this guy I have never met and tell him, tell my friend and leave it up to him, stay out of other people’s business?

[Paul F Franklin]

I'd bite my tongue and mind my own business. I feel confident the guy is not going to go and rebuild his deck because of unsolicited advice from someone he doesn't know. Unsolicited advice is almost never welcome. (And I'm only giving this advice because you asked ;) )

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

Stay out of it. He's probably not very concerned about code violations.

[glenn bradley]

I will echo what others have said. A person doing this sort of work is probably not really interested or worse yet, thinks he is doing it right and offers his services to others.

[Garth Almgren]

I'm going to take a slightly different approach and go for option B. I wouldn't offer any advice to the friend of a friend directly, but you might want to mention to your friend that there are some structural issues and code violations that you've noticed.

If your friend then wants to mention it to his friend that "A buddy of mine who knows about this stuff saw your pictures and is worried that your deck might fall down", it might be better received than some stranger offering advice out of the blue.

Your friend may choose not to pass along the info, and if he does his friend probably won't do anything about it, but at least you'll have done your part.

[Mark Blatter]

I'm going to take a slightly different approach and go for option B. I wouldn't offer any advice to the friend of a friend directly, but you might want to mention to your friend that there are some structural issues and code violations that you've noticed.

If your friend then wants to mention it to his friend that "A buddy of mine who knows about this stuff saw your pictures and is worried that your deck might fall down", it might be better received than some stranger offering advice out of the blue.

Your friend may choose not to pass along the info, and if he does his friend probably won't do anything about it, but at least you'll have done your part.

+1 to this.

[Bill Orbine]

Tongue is delicious!

[Chris Padilla]

I'm going to take a slightly different approach and go for option B. I wouldn't offer any advice to the friend of a friend directly, but you might want to mention to your friend that there are some structural issues and code violations that you've noticed.

If your friend then wants to mention it to his friend that "A buddy of mine who knows about this stuff saw your pictures and is worried that your deck might fall down", it might be better received than some stranger offering advice out of the blue.

Your friend may choose not to pass along the info, and if he does his friend probably won't do anything about it, but at least you'll have done your part.I would go this route without hesitation.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm shocked at the consensus here!

I think the bigger disservice is letting someone do something wrong when you know better just because they are a stranger. It's internet "What Would You Do?" [queue John Quinones]

If *my* deck was in violation, I'd want to know. I may feel embarrassed or mad or disappointed, but at least I'd know. You're not telling him to change it; you're not reporting him. You're advising him. Doing it in a trolly, disparaging way is of course wrong. But doing it in the spirit of - er- "constructive" construction, is right and proper and is what Social Media should aspire to.

I would private message him and tell him politely, and go one step further: offer him to contact you if he wants you to elaborate. Reaching a virtual hand out in help is noble.

[Michael Dye]

OK, so you feel the need to be all high and mighty. Let's change the medium a bit. Same guy sends out pictures of the speedometer of his car, obviously speeding, flying through a school zone. What do you do? Somebody could get hurt there, as well. Let's try another one. Same guy, standing in front of his obviously distraught child, only with a belt in his hand. What do you do? This is why Fakebook is a disaster to modern society. Mind your own business. Better yet, don't look for advice here if you're not prepared for the results.

[Pat Barry]

I suppose you could actually report this to the city building inspector. I don't know if they give out medals for this sort of thing though.

[John Lanciani]

So in your opinion, is it structurally unsound (dangerous to use as is) or just not code compliant? Most of the houses that we all live in are not compliant with todays code, but they are not dangerous. If in fact you believe that it is dangerous as built, and you have professional credentials that allow you to make that distinction, then you should tactfully convey the message. If it just doesn't meet the state of the art then let it go.

[Jim Becker]

If you feel the need to point out something like that, do it privately through messenger, rather than calling them out publicly in the thread. And never about aesthetics...that's subjective. A true safety issue is objective, but try to be very careful in how things are worded, too. And be prepared to be rebuffed. ;)

[Prashun Patel]

I don't feel the need to be high and mighty about everything. We can easily play 'what if?' and find a close but not exact analogy to this situation where'd I'd be better served keeping my superior mouth shut.

In this instance, the OP has potential safety knowledge that the Facebook poster may not. I should not have been general about my disdain for this response.

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

is the OP concerned that the deck is structurally unsound, or just not built to code? Decks have been built in the manner he mentioned for years.

Is the OP in a position where he has a "duty to inform" someone of a potentially unsafe condition?

Is the OP familiar with local code requirements?

"not up to code" does not necessarily mean the deck is dangerous.

If, for example, it was a DIY electrical job, and there was a picture of a code violation that was also potential for injury or property damage - I would say that is a clear example of when "unsolicited advice" should be given.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Since you aren't a direct friend, I'd talk to your mutual friend and let him decide whether or not to communicate the information to the individual. Talking to the person may be just a waste of time.

In this day and age, there are a lot of folks who mistakenly believe, fervently believe, they have complete knowledge about a subject in discussion or what they are doing even when it's unsafe and goes against all common sense or knowledge.

[Myk Rian]

Express your concerns in questions, as if you want to build a deck..

Where did you get the plans?
Did the plans require screws, bolts, or nails?
How much weight will those joists carry?
Etc.

[Lee Schierer]

Since you aren't a direct friend, I'd talk to your mutual friend and let him decide whether or not to communicate the information to the individual. Talking to the person may be just a waste of time.

In this day and age, there are a lot of folks who mistakenly believe, fervently believe, they have complete knowledge about a subject in discussion or what they are doing even when it's unsafe and goes against all common sense or knowledge.

I agree......I wouldn't post anything on Face Book as it will only spin out of control for reasons noted by Ken.

[Keith Westfall]

If YOU got a message, email, phone call etc., about something you built, (in reference to a picture that ended up on the internet), would you give any weight to that contact or information? Of course not.

None of your business unless you are the building inspector for that area... You may or may not prevent any type of incident or accident, you will never know, unless someone posts it!

Sorry, but way to many armchair quarterbacks watching over everyone's shoulders.

[Frederick Skelly]

Charlie,
Unless you see something that you think will be unsafe, I'd keep it to myself. If it is unsafe, I'd ask your friend to talk with him as others have suggested.

FWIW,
Fred

[Charlie Velasquez]

Charlie,
Unless you see something that you think will be unsafe, I'd keep it to myself. If it is unsafe, I'd ask your friend to talk with him as others have suggested.

FWIW,
Fred I was worried about what may happen later down the road. I thought if those nails failed that middle beam may force the joist to act like a see-saw or something. Went with this.
Couched it as, "Your friend is lucky, our inspector would have made me ....". He has a relationship established. The builder will take anything he says much more seriously than from an unknown.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I don't see why that situation would ever really need to be addressed, unless you were personally on his deck and it appeared to be unsafe/clearly a safety concern. Mind your business and bite your tongue

I built a deck off the front of my house that isn't 100% up to local code, but I thought long and hard about the choices I made, asked advice of people more knowledgeable than I (in the construction field, that I also work in), and in the end made the choice for myself and family. My issue had mostly to do with how I attached my ledger board to the hollow cinder block foundation on that side of the house. If someone was visiting me on my deck and I knew or perceived them to be more knowledgeable about construction than I, and they brought up a concern in a polite, constructive way then I would be a lot more receptive to that then what has been discussed in this thread (Facebook nonsense.)

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

I with "mentioning it to the friend" crowd. You can do it in a friendly way "I saw the pictures of X's deck. Looks great but he might have some problems with city inspectors or home inspectors if he tries to sell. I would be happy to offer some advice if he is interested"....

With the wonders of the internet, if the friend of the friend did not practice modern building practices, there is a good chance he does not care. By asking the friend, you are at least making a good faith effort.

[Bob Grier]

Degree of safety and risk is variable.

I guess a specific deck construction method could be considered nearly 100% safe against failure due to design load for a given number of years using specific materials, etc. specified by a code. Then again, how safe is it when subjected to twice the load or for longer time span or using different construction methods? What safety factor was used in developing the code and what factors were considered when developing the code. Do these factors apply to all locals and materials, maintenance, etc?

What is the risk factor considered by the code if a failure happens? If a complete failure happens to the deck in the picture, how far will it drop? Will there likely be a serious injury or fatality? How over designed or under designed is the deck? Are there more beam to post bolt connections than necessary? In other words, are the spans reduced below allowable and therefore less load on the bolt connections. Are the bolt connections true through bolt connections with large washers and correct diameter of bolts to not over stress the wood or are they lag screws?

There is a lot to consider when evaluating safety and risk when building something for people to stand on or take shelter under. Code is a good starting point but site specific conditions might also be considered.

Like some have mentioned, if you see a real safety issue, you should speak up. IMHOA code violation does not in itself mean a serious or even increased safety risk.