Euro jointer guards?

[J.R. Rutter]

I would like to retrofit a euro-style guard to my 12" jointer. Since I haven't used a guard like this, i wonder if anyone here can fill me in on exactly how they function, or point me to some photos online. What features need to be designed in for ease or use + safety?

I run a feeder on the outfeed table, and due to how it is mounted a large portion of the cutterhead is exposed between the fence and the feeder wheels.

[Norman Hitt]

I would like to retrofit a euro-style guard to my 12" jointer. Since I haven't used a guard like this, i wonder if anyone here can fill me in on exactly how they function, or point me to some photos online. What features need to be designed in for ease or use + safety?

I run a feeder on the outfeed table, and due to how it is mounted a large portion of the cutterhead is exposed between the fence and the feeder wheels.

J.R., Jim Becker should be able to give you some insight on this, as he has replaced the standard equipment guard on his MiniMax FS350 with their Euro Guard. I just wish they had been able to sell the unit with the Euro Guard as standard equipment when I bought mine, but............ I will definitely be adding one to mine at some point, (when it fits in the budget :o ).

[Charlie Plesums]

If you are using a power feeder, you will have to move the guard out of the way in either case. Normally one wheel of the power feeder is on the in-feed side, and two (or more) wheels on the outfeed side, so the power feeder is straddling the cutters.

To answer your question, there are two modes for using the Euro guards... For jointing the face of a board, it slides under the guard, as the guard rises (rather than swinging out of the way like the frisbee guards). For edge jointing, the guard pulls back from the fence, exposing enough cutter for the edge joint.

I have heard (but don't know if it is true) that the reason the euro-guards are not sold as standard equipment in the US is that they don't meet OSHA standards... part of the cutter is exposed when you are edge jointing. The fact that (IMHO) the frisbee guards are practically useless (or downright hazardous) shouldn't influence the OSHA requirement for that design.

[Noel Hegan]

Hi JR, here's a picture of a Euro guard (or bridge guard) on my jointer. Although it's only a 6" model the larger models generally have a similar type of guard.

http://premium1.uploadit.org/noel157//Img_0004Rcd.jpg

I've used the frisbee type guard in the past and think I prefer it, but Euro regulations reckon that the return spring just might fail so the bridge guard is the only type allowed over here.
The jointer is the european version of the Powermatic 54A.
Rgds

Noel

[Jamie Buxton]

Hi JR, here's a picture of a Euro guard (or bridge guard) on my jointer. Although it's only a 6" model the larger models generally have a similar type of guard.


I've used the frisbee type guard in the past and think I prefer it, but Euro regulations reckon that the return spring just might fail so the bridge guard is the only type allowed over here.
The jointer is the european version of the Powermatic 54A.
Rgds

Noel

Hah! That guard looks identical to the one on my Hammer A3-31 jointer/planer. Must be that they both buy it from the same supplier.

[Michael Ballent]

Noel,

In case no one has not already done it, WELCOME to Saw Mill Creek :D and we really appreciate it when folks from the other side of the pond join in... Provides a great opportunity to share different methods of getting things done. You jointer looks pretty cool BTW with that guard in place... But I am not so sure that they are any more effective than the ones with the springs. If you are edge jointing the pressure initially is toward the front of the board so if your hand slips the cutters are exposed ... is that not correct?

[Jim Becker]

What Noel shows is EXACTLY the same unit on my MM FS-350 at present. There is a learning curve, particularly for face jointing since the material passes UNDER the guard, but I wouldn't give it up at this point for just about anything. One thing I do wish mine had as a feature is what Felder provides...their guard has hinges that allow it to fold at three places (for a machine of my size [14"] or a little larger) so that when you pull the fence forward to vary the path for edge jointing, you have less guard sticking you in the gut. But no matter, it's really not in the way when you are actually using the machine and pushing everything back is a good habit to get into, anyway.

[Noel Hegan]

Thankyou Michael, I appreciate the welcome.
As you and Jim have mentioned I think both types of guards have their strenghts and weaknesses. As I mentioned I'm not a big fan of the bridge guard. The accepted method when jointing a face is to have the guard in contact with the fence with the stock being fed under the guard. Therefore you have to lift each hand as the timber is being fed over the cutter head. I'm uncomfortable with this practice as for full control I feel both hands should be in contact with the stock, or at least not have something that interupts the natural flow of things. A further complaint I have, as Jim has mentioned, is that end of the guard does indeed tend to snag my waist when I'm feeding a long board over the tables.
Michael, the frisbee type guard just seems more compact and the spring return ensures that the cutter head is shielded at all times whereas with the bridge guard on an edge cut, where it is just simply adjusted so that it touches the wood it does leave the cutterhead exposed at the end of the cut.
Maybe the more you are used to a particular guard arrangement various shortcomings do become apparent.

Rgds

Noel

[Jim Becker]

Noel, sorry I forgot to add my welcome! Where in your fine country do you live? My sister-in-law used to live in Dun Laoghaire (now in Spain) and when we visited, we took the opportunity to do a driving vacation down around the south and west through the Ring of Kerry, etc. It was about the greatest vacation we've taken yet!

Other than face jointing "short stock", I cannot think of any way that one really could keep both hands on the material through the entire pass without shifting over/under as you move the stock through. More importantly, the focus of the hands and the small amount of downward pressure needs to be on the outfeed side so whatever hand is in that area doesn't leave the board before the "next" hand takes over. Therefore, I don't find the Euro guard hampers jointing once one gets used to the guard "being there"...the technique is the same.

The "porkchop" guards are not an issue for small jointers, but when you get into the 10-12-14-16" size machines, this style of guard gets to be a real pain, IMHO, unless it's really carefully designed. I really hated it on the MiniMax 14" J/P I own and literally jumped at the opportunity to pay money for the Euro guard! And I've been a happy camper ever since.

[Charlie Plesums]

... The accepted method when jointing a face is to have the guard in contact with the fence with the stock being fed under the guard. Therefore you have to lift each hand as the timber is being fed over the cutter head. ...

The way I was taught to use the jointer was to NEVER have a hand above the cutters - always assume that something will happen and the board will disappear. Therefore I push longer boards from the infeed table only until there is sufficient room to work from the outfeed table. As soon as there is room for two hands on the outfeed side, both hands walk the plank down the outfeed side (keeping one of the hands close to the cutters to hold the board down)...nothing on the infeed side. If the board is too small to do "hand over hand" then I use a large flat pushblock, covered with sandpaper, and a handle that keeps my hands away from the cutters. Therefore what I was taught as the "right way" is the way you are forced to work with that guard.


Incidentally, the large frisbee on my 16 inch jointer is so large that it cannot be mounted when other parts are mounted on my machine, so I run with NO guard. When the machine was new, I tried to buy a euro-guard, but they were out of stock, so I have gotten quite used to watching that giant cutter uncovered!

[Noel Hegan]

Jim, thanks for the welcome. Your goodself and Charlie make some valid points. I can see that a bridge guard would make sense on jointers bigger than what I'm used to. I should've mentioned that I use push pads for face jointing, as Charlie rightly mentions, hands over the cutter head is a big no no. Suppose both types of guarding are a compromise in one way or another but, as I'm sure we all agree, safety is paramount. Although I do like the Felder idea of the folding guard.
Jim, Dun Laoghaire? I'm impressed, most vistors have problems spelling it, not to mention pronouncing it (Dun Leary). I used to spend summer holidays there when I was a kid. Great memories. Glad you liked Kerry, beautiful part of the country. I live in the North of the country, about 60 miles north of Belfast. Sure, we've had a few problems and the weather could be better but we're a friendly bunch.
Again, thanks for the welcome guys.

Rgds

Noel

[Jim Becker]

Jim, Dun Laoghaire? I'm impressed, most vistors have problems spelling it, not to mention pronouncing it (Dun Leary).

LOL! Ok...I looked it up to be sure I spelled it correctly...that "ao" always slips my mind a bit. Tristin and family lived down by the water...their next-door neighbor at the time was well-known musical artist Maire Brennan. Neat lady. Fabulous voice. (Which runs in her family... ;) )

And again, welcome to SMC. 'Hope you'll stay engaged as learning about how folks accomplish woodworking all over the world is really nice for all of us!

[John Renzetti]

hi, I've been using the Eurostyle guard on my machines for about 7 yrs and really prefer it to the porkchop guard.
I feel it is safer. It does take a little getting used to.
They are allowed by OSHA. The expensive Martin has the Eurostyle. Interesting enough the American style guard is not allowed by CE regs. The main reason given is that when face jointing a wide piece the cutter head will be exposed after the piece has passed over the cutterhead. I know for edge jointing the cutter will also be exposed but I guess the CE regulators don't consider this as big a safety problem. It is possible to buy a SUVA automatic guard that will close back up over the cutterhead when edgejointing. This thing costs about $800.
take care,
John

[Bill Grumbine]

...their guard has hinges that allow it to fold at three places (for a machine of my size [14"] or a little larger) so that when you pull the fence forward to vary the path for edge jointing, you have less guard sticking you in the gut.

You know the alternative solution to that problem Jim, but lest anyone accuse the pot of calling the kettle black, I have to keep my turning muscle in good shape for all those turnings! :D :D :D

I have both the American style "pork chop" guard and the Euro guard for my MM CU 300 Smart, and I prefer the Euro guard.

Bill

[Jim Becker]

You know the alternative solution to that problem Jim

Never fear...the Solebury Club is whittling away a little at the "problem"...slowly.

[J.R. Rutter]

I run my feeder on the outfeed table - had problems with boards catrching on the lip of the outfeed table when one roller was on infeed. So for face jointing, the cutterhead is exposed between the outer edge of the feeder and the fence...

[Alan Turner]

On my 12" jointer (circa 1925), I have a Surety guard. One could push the stock under the guard, which is what the design is all about, but it is also sprung, so will move out of the way like a pork chop gaurd. Its pivot is at teh back left of the table, in the rabbet ledge area. It has a tall (4") thingie (note use of technical term) on the right side so that when edge jointing, the guard will pivot to the left, leaving no cutterhead exposed. The guard is just OK; not great. IMHO. I was told by the dealer from whom I bought it that it was an aftermarket guard, I think maybe in the 50's, but am not sure of the date. Anyway, I never push wood under it as I like to have full control over the board at all times. Plus, if a board is well out of flat, I will "drop" the board on the cutterhead near the high point of the middle and push to the end as I think that for 1/2 the passes, this conserves wood. I could be wrong on this, but it is the way I have worked for years. I find the thingie to be a good handle for moving the gaurd to the left to permit face jointing.

Anyone else out there use a Surety guard? My jointer seems to be drilled and tapped for a feeder, but I do not have one.

[J.R. Rutter]

Thanks everyone.

After talking to MiniMax and looking at other guards, I think I'm going to modify my porkchop guard. The original guard is long gone on my 1950s era General, but someone has made a lamitated replacement in what looks like the original pattern. I will put a couple of threaded inserts in the top and make an extension that can be attached to extend over the cutterhead when power feeding. The height of the porkchop guard will allow boards to pass underneath the extension. I can also use it for power feeding on edge, as I run the feeder on the outfeed side of the fence for this as well.

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<img src="http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/shop/jointer%20feeding.jpg" border="0" alt="" />
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Hopefully this will be the best of both worlds. I'll post some action pics after I make the changes.