INCRA TS-LS Table Saw Fence 32"? 52"? or...........

[Jim Eller]

........ forget it.

I've always been intrigued by the Incra fence, have few nuggets in the tool budget and I and thought I would give it a try. This would be going on a 2005 PM66 with a 52" extension.

The questions are:

1 - 32" or 52"? I currently very seldom cut any they very wide. If I need to break down sheet goods I use a track saw. The current extension is 52" so is that the route to go? Is there any difference in the accuracy between the two? Suggestions?

2 - For those of you that have this fence, is it something you are happy with and would buy it again or should I just forget the idea?

3 - Is it a hassle to install on a PM66? From what I've read it appears to be pretty straight forward.

4 - Anyone have a router on the right side with this fence and how is that working out?

5 - Any pictures on a PM66

Thanks,
JimE

[Andy Giddings]

Jim

I had one on my Sears Hybrid saw that had no extension (before I migrated to a slider). My answers are:
1) 52 - its more useful than you think as you can also use it as an extended cross cut stop. Just clamp a known width piece of wood to the Incra rip fence ensuring that it doesn't extend beyond the front of the blade to avoid pinching. You then have an accurate and repeatable end stop all the way out to 52. It was also easy to add a length of Baltic Birch between the rails of the Incra to extend the saw table surface
2) I would buy again
3) Think the PM66 is a similar setup to most cabinet or hybrid saws so should be easy to set up. Check the Incra site or call them if in doubt
4) No router as I have a separate free standing router table
5) No but one of the Sears
343088

[Jim Eller]

Thanks Andy. That helps.

I just read that the 32" can cut up to 52" if you move the rails to the right? I do not do anything to the left of the blade. Know anything about this?

I also have a separate router table but looking to add a second round it the table position.

Thanks again. JimE

PS - Like the systainers in the pic. Good stuff. Got a few of 'um myself.

[Andy Giddings]

Yes, Jim, you can move the rails over and get a wider cut - as long as you can mount the rails in the solid part of the saw (cast iron top and wing - not sure what your extension on the PM is made of?) should be straightforward.

[Jim Eller]

Andy, My PM66 has 19" of cast iron on each side of the blade slot. Thanks again for input and your time. JimE

[Andy Giddings]

Jim, sounds like you are in good shape as you'll have at least two solid mounts into the iron.

Couple of other things to be aware of that I remember from my install:

1) Am assuming that your extension already has legs at the right hand end? If so, you shouldn't need the leg set that is an extra with the Incra, but it might be worth checking that your existing support can still be used
2) If your existing splitter/riving knife mounts onto the saw table check that the back rail mounting for the Incra will still work with this. Shouldn't be an issue as you are moving the rails to the right, whereas if you have them in the normal location it can interfere with the mount for these
3) Even though you are moving the rails to the right to get a longer cross cut, you will have to move the TS-LS every time you switch from 32 limit to 52. The range of the TS LS is the cause of this. Its easy enough to do this (just release the clamps on the LS and slide it to the next stop) and there is a secondary scale that measures from 32 to 52 - just wanted you to be aware. You can see the intermediate position in my photo, the 52 stops are at the end of the rails

[Earl McLain]

Jim--Andy speaks with wisdom in my opinion. The only difference between the 32" and 52" systems is the length of rail and the leg kit that comes with the 52" system. With the 52", a pair of bolts on each rail set stop positions for 32" and 52" configurations. I bought the 32", and can't tell you how often I need 33" to 36" of width (never did before!!) Even the footprint isn't all that different--with the 32" I have to keep enough space that the rails for the 52" would be in the same same area.

Bottom line--the difference in price is $100, and if you wanted to buy the longer rails later they are $150 plus adding a leg kit. Someday i'll trade up to the 52, but it would have been smarter to do it from the beginning.

My opinion for my usage, your needs may be different.
earl

[Mike Herman]

I have the 52. It is deadly accurate EVERY time. It is easy to mount to any saw. The mount brackets slide in the rails so you can put them anywhere. To go from the 32 to 52 you have to move the leadscrew device over. There are adjustable positive stops that you can set up anywhere along the length of the rails to do this. I had the router on the left. I set up 3 sets of stops one for 32 inch cut one for 52 inch cut and one for the router. It takes only seconds to move. You could very easily have routers on both sides if you wanted to. Now the bad lol. It takes up space on the table to the right. The expense. I think with all the bells and whistles I have 1200 in mine. The rails stick out pretty far to the right, my garage is small and shares duties storing non woodworking items. If I had a bigger shop I would buy it again. That said I took mine off and would sell it for a decent offer

[Jim Eller]

​Andy, see below


Jim, sounds like you are in good shape as you'll have at least two solid mounts into the iron.

Couple of other things to be aware of that I remember from my install:

1) Am assuming that your extension already has legs at the right hand end? If so, you shouldn't need the leg set that is an extra with the Incra, but it might be worth checking that your existing support can still be used Yes it does have a set of legs.
2) If your existing splitter/riving knife mounts onto the saw table check that the back rail mounting for the Incra will still work with this. Shouldn't be an issue as you are moving the rails to the right, whereas if you have them in the normal location it can interfere with the mount for these Everything is mounted in the blade chaging area.
3) Even though you are moving the rails to the right to get a longer cross cut, you will have to move the TS-LS every time you switch from 32 limit to 52. The range of the TS LS is the cause of this. Its easy enough to do this (just release the clamps on the LS and slide it to the next stop) and there is a secondary scale that measures from 32 to 52 - just wanted you to be aware. You can see the intermediate position in my photo, the 52 stops are at the end of the rail I mentioned the 32" because of the smaller size(won't stick out the right side another 20" and most of the things I do are under 24" Larger stuff can be done on the chop saw or track saw. Really appreciate the input. I will call Incra tomorrow also for input. At least now I can speak half way intelligently.

[Jim Eller]

Earl - Thanks, see below


Jim--Andy speaks with wisdom in my opinion. The only difference between the 32" and 52" systems is the length of rail and the leg kit that comes with the 52" system. With the 52", a pair of bolts on each rail set stop positions for 32" and 52" configurations. I bought the 32", and can't tell you how often I need 33" to 36" of width (never did before!!) Even the footprint isn't all that different--with the 32" I have to keep enough space that the rails for the 52" would be in the same same are As said, most all of my cuts are >24"(currently, but like you said). I was looking at the 32" mostly for easy of use and size. The 52" would not be a problem as size goes.

Bottom line--the difference in price is $100, and if you wanted to buy the longer rails later they are $150 plus adding a leg kit. Someday i'll trade up to the 52, but it would have been smarter to do it from the beginning. Acually I believe the difference is only $60 because you deduct $40 from the price is you DON'T want the leg kit. Thanks for the input. JimE

My opinion for my usage, your needs may be different.
earl

[Jim Eller]

Mike - I sent you a PM. JimE

[Hoang N Nguyen]

I have the 36" and love it. I ordered mine with the router table to the right along with the wonder fence. I opted for the 36" version due to space, I'm currently in a garage shop and when the slide is all the way out, it sticks past the saw a good bit. I have a planner to the right of my saw so I wasn't able to fit a 52" fence in my space. I just use my tracksaw to break sheet goods down and do the final trimming on the TS. I'll snap a picture and share with you once I get a chance.

[Jim Eller]

Thank you. I currently have my jointer to the right of my table saw and the slide will go over the top if it but will limit access to the jointer. JimE


I have the 36" and love it. I ordered mine with the router table to the right along with the wonder fence. I opted for the 36" version due to space, I'm currently in a garage shop and when the slide is all the way out, it sticks past the saw a good bit. I have a planner to the right of my saw so I wasn't able to fit a 52" fence in my space. I just use my tracksaw to break sheet goods down and do the final trimming on the TS. I'll snap a picture and share with you once I get a chance.

[Hoang N Nguyen]

343165

This is an older picture but it should give you an idea. You can't really see the router lift but it's there. I also have the incra router enclosure and it works great. I get nearly zero dust when routing.

You can also see how close to my planer the fence arm is. When pushed back to make wider rip cuts, the arm nearly touches my planer. I have to move my fence near the blade whenever I'm done with the TS just so I can walk around the shop. I also have legs at the end of mine and feel it's a must. My table was sagging a good bit before I put the legs on so I don't know how people go without it. The aluminum rails of the LS positioner isn't strong enough to support all that weight like a steel tubed rail can. Maybe you can get away without the legs if you don't have the router table but a must if you do.

If you haven't already ordered yours, I'll give you an example of why you should and this was the moment it proved it's coins in my shop.

Few weeks ago, I was helping a friend make some doors for a pantry he was working on. We milled some poplar and and ripped them down to 2.5" for rails and stiles. I used my domino machine as my choice of joinery. I showed my friend how to use the domino and let him do the rest. He made a mistake on one of them when he didn't line up the cursor of the domino to the line marked on the wood. We had already glued the dominos to both ends of the stiles so we couldn't pull them back out. He was freaking out thinking he'd screwed it up but I told him no need to worry. We went back to the TS and I set the fence back to 2.5" to cut off the domino half that was sticking out and that's exactly what it did. It cut the domino flush with the wood and nothing else, even I was amazed by it.

Another case where it excels was sitting up my drawer lock bit at the router. I was making 16 drawers for my wife's closet when I ran out of wood. Being that my router table shared the same fence as my TS, I had to move the fence in order to rip down the new extra wood needed to finish the project. I logged the position of where the fence was at the router by using the nylon scales on the fence arms along with how many clicks of the micro adjuster. Removed the wonder fence, and moved primary fence to make the needed rip cuts. Put back the wonder fence and moved it to the location I logged before, moved the router bit up to bit with my old test cut and it was dead on. Took me less than a minute to set up the router to make the same exact cuts as before.

I think this is where the TS-LS positioner excels. Sorry for the long post but I hope it helps.

[Jim Eller]

Hoang N Nguyen

Thanks for the information. It really helps.

Questions: You say you have a 36" model. I only see 32" and a 52" models. Is it an older or different version that I am looking at. http://www.incrementaltools.com/Table_Saw_Fences_s/3.htm


Have you ever moved the rails to the right to get more capacity? JimE

[Hoang N Nguyen]

Hoang N Nguyen

Thanks for the information. It really helps.

Questions: You say you have a 36" model. I only see 32" and a 52" models. Is it an older or different version that I am looking at. http://www.incrementaltools.com/Table_Saw_Fences_s/3.htm


Have you ever moved the rails to the right to get more capacity? JimE

My mistake, I have the 32" rails and not the 36". I don't know why I always mix up the two.

I installed the rails according to the instructions and don't think moving them further to the right would work. With the rails mounted the way they are now, the arm is all the way extended when the fence is next to the blade. If I moved the rails further to the right along with the whole arm, I don't think it has enough travel in it for the fence to touch the blade. I make a lot of narrow cuts around 2-3 inches so it wouldn't work for me. I always break down sheet goods with my tracksaw, than it goes to the TS for final trimming. Even with a parallel guide on my track saw, all my parts tend to come out a hair off from each other. So I always break them down about 1/2" wider and trim to final dimensions on the TS. All parts come out dead on to each other, plus it's easier to feed smaller sheets through the TS than it is a 4x8 sheet.

[Andy Giddings]

Hoang N Nguyen, moving the rails still works as the stops in the rails dictate the position of the arm. You would have to reset the stops but, as Jim mentioned earlier, you will get more travel to the right. Benefit of the longer cross cut isn't for panels as on a cabinet saw without additional front support, you would still have a stability issue. Where it helps is in crosscutting long boards to a precise length, using a short stop clamped to the fence

[Hoang N Nguyen]

Hoang N Nguyen, moving the rails still works as the stops in the rails dictate the position of the arm. You would have to reset the stops but, as Jim mentioned earlier, you will get more travel to the right. Benefit of the longer cross cut isn't for panels as on a cabinet saw without additional front support, you would still have a stability issue. Where it helps is in crosscutting long boards to a precise length, using a short stop clamped to the fence

You are correct, I just assumed when Jim asked about moving the rails further to the right that he also wanted to move the stops so he can get a wider cut than 32". That's why I made the comment about the fence not being able to extend towards the blade.

[Jim Eller]

Thanks to all. Your time and effort is appreciated.

After a long conversation with Mark in tech service at Incra I placed my order for the 32" model. My main reasons for choosing the 32" model after taking with Mark was that I do not do sheet goods and the foot print, although I do have the room. Per Mark, I can just mount the rails to the right because I do nothing to the left of the blade. Cost was not a factor in my decision.

We shall see. Thanks again for the help. JimE

[Earl McLain]

Congratulations Jim--getting the decision out of the way is always a relief for me. If you lived closer--i'd have happily paid the extra for the long rails & legs, and swapped you my shorter rails!!

earl

[J. Greg Jones]

Good choice. I've had my 32" Incra for going on 10 years now and I have never regretted the decision. I have my rails mounted to the right, beginning at the left wing/just flush with the power switch. With that setup, I get 43" of cut when I move the carriage, which is the most I ever need. Except once, about 7 years ago, and that's what you see pictured here. I moved the rails as far to the right as possible and was able to get over 50" of cut (when the carriage was moved all the way to the right, and in this picture it is not).

[Jim Eller]

Thanks for the info and the picture. That looks like my PM saw is what I am talking about doing. I can live with the once every 7 years things. At 73 I won't be needing it too much. :)

I see you have 8 L-brackets on the rails and it only comes with six. Mark at Incra indicated using them is one way to attach the wooden section of the table. Is that what you have done?

It the fence in the 32" position in the picture? It looks like it can go another 10"-12".

Appreciate the help.

JimE


Good choice. I've had my 32" Incra for going on 10 years now and I have never regretted the decision. I have my rails mounted to the right, beginning at the left wing/just flush with the power switch. With that setup, I get 43" of cut when I move the carriage, which is the most I ever need. Except once, about 7 years ago, and that's what you see pictured here. I moved the rails as far to the right as possible and was able to get over 50" of cut (when the carriage was moved all the way to the right, and in this picture it is not).

[J. Greg Jones]

I see you have 8 L-brackets on the rails and it only comes with six. Mark at Incra indicated using them is one way to attach the wooden section of the table. Is that what you have done?
Actually I have 6 front and 6 in the rear, 12 total. I did purchase extra brackets so I could attach the table, but I really don't know why I decided to add so many.


It the fence in the 32" position in the picture? It looks like it can go another 10"-12".
It's in the 32" position, but could go nearly another 20" with the rails where they are. It can be moved all the way to the stop bolts at the far end of the rails, 50"+ in that position.

Here is another picture, taken this morning, with the rails where they have been for the past 7 years. 32" max cut in this position, 43" cut when moved to the stop bolts in the end position. Other than that one time 7 years ago, I've never needed more capacity. Actually I rarely need to move it to get more than 32", but that additional capacity of course depends on what type of projects one works with.

[Jim Eller]

J. Greg Jones,

Really helpful info and visual.

If you had to do it again, how many L-brackets would one really need? I believe it come with 6. Would four on the cast iron table/wings and four for the wooden part of the table be sufficient? Mark at Incra also mentioned to just put a 1" spacer between the wooden extension and the rails. Any thoughts on that? How would you secure it to the rail with the spacer method? I don't visualize that without drilling through the rail.

I haven't ordered any extra brackets yet. I have a 3-4 wait(so they say) so I have plenty of time. Perhaps not installing the wooden extension would be a plus. It seems to be a real attraction for collecting "stuff". :)

Thanks again.
JimE

[Andy Giddings]

Jim, the rails take standard 1/4"-20 square nuts on the inside face. I used 1.75x0.75" hardwood screwed with bolts and nuts to the rail, and then fixed a 18mm Baltic Birch worktop to the hardwood. I believe the instructions are in the manual online page 11.

Depending on how your PM saw extension is fixed to the wing and legs, I would think 2 brackets for the extension and four for the iron would work. That way the iron takes most of the load

[Jim Eller]

Andy,

Once again, THANKS!

I will find the manual online and give it a look.

Just check the PM66 and how the wooden extension is attached. It currently is attached to the PM rails with six bolts on each side. It is not attached to the right wing(no pun intended) but the wing could be drilled it could be bolted to it.

If the Incra brackets are needed, I have no problem with that but each pair I save buying is $17 plus shipping I can use for other shop stuff. And Lord knows I need more stuff in the shop. :)

The help and advice is really appreciated.

JimE

[Andy Giddings]

If your existing extension is not bolted to the iron then I think you're either going to have to drill the wing and attach it or I'd recommend a couple of extra Incra brackets as per J Greg's photo. Either would work as the existing legs at the end of the extension will support the rail ends - just need something near the middle. If it looks unstable after drilling, you could always add the extra brackets later

[Jim Eller]

Andy,

I think I will bolt the extension to the wing now while everything is aligned and flush. JimE

[David Pettinger]

Just purchased my TS32. Took me a couple of days to install on my Craftsman 21833, but I am really happy with it so far. The Craftsman fence was a far cry from what I was use too. I had a Beisemeyer style fence on my old saw, but the amount of modifications I was going to have to make was a little unnerving. There would have to be some cutting, drilling and other metal work. WHY??? So, I decided to look at new ideas. I had always looked at the Incra system and thought that it was a good idea and the more research I did, the better it was looking. So when it went on sale 3 weeks ago, I pulled the trigger and bought one. I had a couple of questions after I ordered it, so I called and talked to Mark. Great guy, very helpful and he answered all my questions.
I installed the fence system and can tell you that it is awesome. I make alot of drawers and I now have true repeatability. Don't have to sneak up on cuts. I refer to the log book for a particular drawer I need to make and all my measurements; I just set the fence accordingly. Takes me only a few seconds to make changes, but the cuts are dead on. Drawbacks??? None yet, but it is still early in the project. One other thing, the original Craftsman fence rails were made up of several pieces. I was never really happy with that and the fence adjustments always seemed a little cattywampus. (Tap this end, oops, tap the other end, oops) I always had a ruler lying handy just for that reason. Now, I feel more confident about my saws fence system than ever before.
Oh well, just my point of view, definitely think the fence is worth the price!!

[Jim Eller]

[QUOTE=Oh well, just my point of view, definitely think the fence is worth the price!![/QUOTE]

David,

I would agree. A little pricey but you get what you pay for(or close). Kind of like my Festool tools. You either love 'um or ya hate 'um.

The TS fence is something I wish I would have done a long, long time ago. I keep going back and checking it with the digital calipers and the cuts are just as accurate as the were when I set it up the first time. Lovin' it!

I was so impressed with it that I ordered the LS Positioner Super System for my router table. I have the same impression of it. Today is the first time I did a test(box joints) and they were perfect the first time. Absolutely no gaps. They were just like the Incra video demo. I guess the Incra I-Box Jig is up for sale. Bought it when they first came out and never even tried it.

The Incra folks, Neil and Mark are both fantastic folks to work with.

Thanks for the feedback. JimE