Frog issue on Type 6/7 Stanley #3

[Patrick Bernardo]

Hey guys,

I bought a #3 off of that auction place, because I needed... ok wanted one. It clearly had a new blade as it was a Sweetheart while the casting had the 'S' as a type 6 or 7 (I think it's a 6). Anyway, it was a user, and the price wasn't terrible, I thought. Unfortunately, when it arrived, I was unable to tune it to work. A brief investigation narrowed it down to the frog, which will not seat properly at all. Now, if there's a little wiggle, I'm ok with tuning the seat, but this one is significant. Basically, it rocks about 1/8" or more from front to back. So when I place the frog on the bed so that the front of the frog touches the bed, the back is raised significantly. Likewise if it is seated so that it sits flush at the back. The end result is that angle of the frog is changed when the screws are tightened, and it ends up somewhere in the middle. As a result, the frog has to be backed way off, and will not make full contact with the blade. The result is just chatter, no shavings.

The smallest square I have shows that the frog and seat for the frog are relatively flat; there are no significant lumps or high spots. Either this one was simply miscast or it was filed at a consistent (bad) angle in a misguided attempt to fix or tune it. This is the first plane I've encountered with a problem this severe, and I'm at a loss of how to proceed.

So what say you? Can/should it be shimmed? Can this thing get fixed somehow? I'm at a loss for the next step. I'm not even sure, at this point, if the problem is in the frog or the bed. How would I check that? (Yes, I'm contacting the seller, and will leave negative feedback probably, but I'm expecting the whole 'as is' song and dance, despite the fact that the plane was described as 'crisp' and working.)

Image one: the visible gap at the front (I used a slip of paper to try to make it more clear)
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Image two: the same gap at the back
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Image three: the plane bed
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Image four: the frog
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[Jim Koepke]

On type 8 and earlier the front of the frog doesn't seat on the base.

Your plane looks to be a type 7. Type 6 had right hand threads on the depth adjustment. Type 7 has the S as a foundry mark.

The frog should seat on the area meant for it without rocking.

Not sure if this will help, but it is worth a look:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373-Fettling-A-Plane-from-Junker-to-Jointer

The frog work comes in at about the #10 post.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

There are too many no 3 planes out there that work as is. I would attempt to get my money back and buy a good one.

I have a collection of hand planes, but my #3 Bailey is my favorite plane.

[Normand Leblanc]

The end result is that angle of the frog is changed when the screws are tightened, and it ends up somewhere in the middle.

If it moves when tightening the frog screws it's because there is something in between the frog and the sole.

Looking at your 3rd and 4th picture, I would say that there is some paint (japaning) on the sole, in the area where the bolts holding the frog are, that is higher than the 3 machined areas where the frog is supposed to seat.

That would go a long way in explaining the above quote.

[Patrick Bernardo]

Thanks for the replies. Lowell, I agree, but that's easier said than done.

Normand, that's a great catch - I hadn't seen that detail, but now that you mentioned it, it really does seem like there's some extra japaning there. I'll try to see if sanding that down helps. So now I'm wondering - has this plane been screwed up for 100 years? Or did somebody try to refinish it? I guess I'll never know, but, man, wouldn't that be crazy if this plane has kicked around for years, sold from sucker to sucker, and it just needs a little emery cloth in the right spot...

[Stewie Simpson]

Patrick; once you clean up and degrease both surfaces, you can slide a piece of type writer ink paper between both surfaces and give the underside of the frog a light rub to check for any high spots.

[lowell holmes]

We've all bought tools that didn't work out.

I have a #3 Bailey that I bought out of Canada. It was a school plane. It is my ABSOLUTE favorite plane to use. Sometimes, we just have to "eat" a bad purchase.

I went on a Bedrock kick and ended up with a 604, 605, and a 607. I love them, but will probably pick up my #3 or #5 1/2 Bailey.

The #5 1/2 Bailey is a wide plane and is long enough to to use like a #6.

You may want to consider bedding the frog on your with some plastic filler. You can remove the filler if it doesn't work out.

[steven c newman]

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Get a brass wire brush like this. Sized to fit inside the base casting. This will take all the paint and other junk off. You can even use these in a drill
Have a beltsander? You can stand the frog on the moving belt ( straight up, keep the base of it level) to clean the bottom of the frog. A large file will also work. Use a square to make sure the base is at 90 degrees to the sides.
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Look like the OP's? This is a #5 I got awhile back. I think it is a Type 6? Someone has either replaced the frog, or just the lateral lever
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More to show what a cleaned up frog's bottom should look like. Far cry from what it looked like fresh out of the mailing bag..
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Ya think? Was using the plane a few days ago...

No fillers used. Just clean it back to bare iron where the two meet.